Level scaling = no buy

[Paro]

If the enemy levels up because I leveled up, then there goes the RPG part of the RPG. I outright refuse to play games with level scaling.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Run Now:

It came to mind when I was writing this but not only those types of games would suffer from it.

I remember buying this game called Outlast. That was the last straw for me. You would literally get weaker as you got better equipment making me wonder why the F I would even bother to upgrade anything. Never got to rise above the enemy. They would always just grow alongside you.

I remember back when WOW was still good, you could become super powerful and go farm a low level dungeon for a mount and just walk into a room, press 1 button, and kill 80 things at once. Loved that. You could really FEEL and SEE how the time you put into your character translated into actual power relative to the world.

But gamers today don't really care about that because IQ has dropped so much. It's all about "MUH WANNA GO EVERYWHERE. SHINY MOUNTAIN OVER THERE. MUH WANNA GO RIGHT NOW."

In non-scaled fgames, you would have to sneak through the enemies that could one shot you and MAYBE find a treasure that is way higher level than you are and then feel badazz and like you snuck off with something incredible. Not anymore!

[K1ll3rc0mb0]

Originally posted by Paro:

Originally posted by A Nilah ation:

I actually love level scaling because it means you can enjoy the entire world.

For example in diablo 4 I can go everywhere and enjoy combating enemies where without it, you'd get highlevel then be forced into a single corner of the world.

Recently when fallout TV show was popular I gave fallout 76 chance, how disappointing it was to see all the max level players were in a single corner of the map because that's simply where all the high level enemies are.

Love level scaling, so much better than the alternative ( there's no way you think a level 10 diablo character is the same strength as a level 60 300 paragon diablo 4 character)

This means you do NOT love RPG games. The whole "I can go anywhere at any level and do anything and always have the same challenge" people are anti-RPG and have taken over the space.

thats not RPG. its power fantasy. most action rpgs are what you are looking for. RPGs originate from table top games like DnD. depends on the DM but most will keep throwing slightly stronger enemies at you, otherwise the whole game would be boring easy.

it depends on how a game scales for me. elder scrolls does it by incriminates where you reach a certain level and a different pull of enemies will start showing up. you still see weaker enemies too but you will also get enemies closer to your level.

Diablo 3 did it poorly. its suppose to be a Action rpg but they turn all enemies into damage sponges and start throwing unique abilities into the mix where some enemies have immunity, debuff, ect. on top of being health scaled to you which makes fights annoying unless you have a very specific build of equipment and skills. this ruins the game most of the time.

scaling isn't bad. poor design using such a method is.

[Run Now]

Originally posted by K1ll3rc0mb0:

Originally posted by Paro:

This means you do NOT love RPG games. The whole "I can go anywhere at any level and do anything and always have the same challenge" people are anti-RPG and have taken over the space.

thats not RPG. its power fantasy. most action rpgs are what you are looking for. RPGs originate from table top games like DnD. depends on the DM but most will keep throwing slightly stronger enemies at you, otherwise the whole game would be boring easy.

it depends on how a game scales for me. elder scrolls does it by incriminates where you reach a certain level and a different pull of enemies will start showing up. you still see weaker enemies too but you will also get enemies closer to your level.

Diablo 3 did it poorly. its suppose to be a Action rpg but they turn all enemies into damage sponges and start throwing unique abilities into the mix where some enemies have immunity, debuff, ect. on top of being health scaled to you which makes fights annoying unless you have a very specific build of equipment and skills. this ruins the game most of the time.

scaling isn't bad. poor design using such a method is.

Bad is subjective. /thread

[[Daos]BLACK KNIGHT]

That's the norm now (good think many game ar moddable :D -> remember oblivion "champion of the arena " at level 1?! )
What I loved at Gothic (yes, I am old), was that you can FEEL the progress. Then you acquire a new weapon/armour you can do in areas inaccessible before etc... unfortunately many games now aren't really RPGs :(

[Paro]

Originally posted by DaosBLACK KNIGHT:

That's the norm now (good think many game ar moddable :D -> remember oblivion "champion of the arena " at level 1?! )
What I loved at Gothic (yes, I am old), was that you can FEEL the progress. Then you acquire a new weapon/armour you can do in areas inaccessible before etc... unfortunately many games now aren't really RPGs :(

"MUH CONSISTENT CHALLENGE. MUH WANNA PUSH BUTTONS NO THINK."

it's the mouth breathers. They aren't interested in mental satisfaction. Gronk want smash button controller! Gronk want press button!

[Ryuudou]

Originally posted by Oku:

Im actually hyped for that, there's good ways and bad ways to do it but if I just scale out of control and everything becomes trivial then it's boring to go back and do stuff I missed and I feel like I'm risking future enjoyment by doing side content. As long as the abilities and tools I have allow me to feel like I have more I can do in combat, the power fantasy is maintained.

Anyone who thinks a RPG is about a "power fantasy" is a low IQ weirdo or some kind of psychopathic. Probably some combination of both.

Well adjusted people don't think about games that way. They just see them as fun challenges to solve/a way to spend time.

[Kyo Tanaka]

Originally posted by A Nilah ation:

I actually love level scaling because it means you can enjoy the entire world.

For example in diablo 4 I can go everywhere and enjoy combating enemies where without it, you'd get highlevel then be forced into a single corner of the world.

Recently when fallout TV show was popular I gave fallout 76 chance, how disappointing it was to see all the max level players were in a single corner of the map because that's simply where all the high level enemies are.

Love level scaling, so much better than the alternative ( there's no way you think a level 10 diablo character is the same strength as a level 60 300 paragon diablo 4 character)

Level scaling is bad design since at that point, you might as well design the game without any levels to begin with. That's the issue here with level scaling.

Best case scenario, all enemies are equally weak and you don't feel like you're getting stronger at all, which makes the whole point of an RPG moot and at that point it should be an action game with an upgrade system like the PS2 God of War or DMC.

Worst case scenario, you are World of Warcraft and being high level than the content you are tackling results in enemies being scaled too hard to the point that even trash can outright kill you, which is currently an issue they are facing in Timewalking on the current expansion.

The best solutions I'd found in level scaling works is if you are the ones being scaled, not the enemies you face. DCUO and Final Fantasy 14 handles level syncing this way to make old content be relevant (as in not trivialized for dying in one hit), while at the same time you can still feel your own growth still in the newer content you tackle when you finally get strong enough.

The point of the problem this person has here is that the current level scaling makes the whole leveling process pointless, since you will never feel stronger the more you play. This makes the game feel repetitive. No doubt upgrades are tied to making your numbers do higher numbers, but scaling negates that too. In the cases like God of War or DMC, upgrades unlock more ways for you to kick ass and cause mayham. Or in the case of DCUO and FF14, you can continue to get stronger past the old content and whenever you get roped into doing older content, you are scaled to the instances instead of enemies to you, which still makes whatever upgrades you have still feel amazing in the end.

Hope that explanation enlightened you. Or at least make any lick of sense.

[Speedy☆☺]

Fair non-political and good reason to not buy the game.

[Zeyo]

I thought the RPG part of the RPG was the roleplaying

[Kyo Tanaka]

Originally posted by Zeyo:

I thought the RPG part of the RPG was the roleplaying

Levels is part of the roleplaying.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Speedy☆☺:

Fair non-political and good reason to not buy the game.

I am just so sick of all these level scaled games. They're ruining the point of leveling in the first place.

[Veny]

LOL, nothing more annoying than overleveling enemies and thus making game way too easy because i just finished some side stuff or farmed stuff harder than i supposed to.
RPG is not really about overleveling enemies and yes, you can still overpower them by building your character through skills and gear...

[Fomin]

Level-scaling is like food. It is either good or bad depending how well it's made.

I love the level-scaling in SWTOR and ESO because it makes the whole world interesting (as opposed to painfully easy starting areas and potentially worthwhile final areas which are too small once you reach max level.)

On the other hand, I HATE the level-scaling in Borderlands and Remnant since the former makes every weapon other than the last one you picked up under-leveled and the latter turns leveling up into a self-defeating treadmill.

[Purple Sauce]

Level scaling is one of the most awful systems I have ever seen implemented in video games. I think it is abhorrent when any video game adds such a system unless they keep their levels relatively low so you can still see that you are clearly stronger than they are. Otherwise, it feels like you have made absolutely no progress whatsoever.

[Fomin]

Originally posted by Purple Sauce:

Level scaling is one of the most awful systems I have ever seen implemented in video games. I think it is abhorrent when any video game adds such a system unless they keep their levels relatively low so you can still see that you are clearly stronger than they are. Otherwise, it feels like you have made absolutely no progress whatsoever.

That's definitely true sometimes... Remnant for instance.

I think that the level-scaling in SWTOR and ESO however, actually makes those games better since it means every area in the game is worth doing even after you reach max level.