Level scaling = no buy

[Paro]

If the enemy levels up because I leveled up, then there goes the RPG part of the RPG. I outright refuse to play games with level scaling.

[Run Now]

The way the combat appears to be designed it shouldn't be much of a factor. I also generally don't like level scaling either. I can't believe they streamlined the party management and combat in the way they did. It looks awful.

[A Nilah ation]

I actually love level scaling because it means you can enjoy the entire world.

For example in diablo 4 I can go everywhere and enjoy combating enemies where without it, you'd get highlevel then be forced into a single corner of the world.

Recently when fallout TV show was popular I gave fallout 76 chance, how disappointing it was to see all the max level players were in a single corner of the map because that's simply where all the high level enemies are.

Love level scaling, so much better than the alternative ( there's no way you think a level 10 diablo character is the same strength as a level 60 300 paragon diablo 4 character)

[Run Now]

Originally posted by A Nilah ation:

I actually love level scaling because it means you can enjoy the entire world.

For example in diablo 4 I can go everywhere and enjoy combating enemies where without it, you'd get highlevel then be forced into a single corner of the world.

Recently when fallout TV show was popular I gave fallout 76 chance, how disappointing it was to see all the max level players were in a single corner of the map because that's simply where all the high level enemies are.

Love level scaling, so much better than the alternative ( there's no way you think a level 10 diablo character is the same strength as a level 60 300 paragon diablo 4 character)

I'd argue it's somewhat different for singleplayer games because you aren't competing with or seeing other players.

I personally prefer the way a lack of level scaling allows for different areas being more dangerous and something you have to work towards. Or if you prefer an online comparison, the old mmorpgs didn't have it and it still allowed for newer players being in the same zones as higher levels but just working on the areas with lower level camps.

Diablo 4 is a different kind of game than many, level scaling there is fine even for me who generally otherwise doesn't like it. Compare that to say Morrowind: Oblivion which was one of the first times I experienced it and found it ruined the immersion and interest for me to complete the game.

[Oku]

Im actually hyped for that, there's good ways and bad ways to do it but if I just scale out of control and everything becomes trivial then it's boring to go back and do stuff I missed and I feel like I'm risking future enjoyment by doing side content. As long as the abilities and tools I have allow me to feel like I have more I can do in combat, the power fantasy is maintained.

[Kogoro]

Originally posted by Oku:

Im actually hyped for that, there's good ways and bad ways to do it but if I just scale out of control and everything becomes trivial then it's boring to go back and do stuff I missed and I feel like I'm risking future enjoyment by doing side content. As long as the abilities and tools I have allow me to feel like I have more I can do in combat, the power fantasy is maintained.

That's how I view it as well, I dislike having to fight enemies who are too weak just makes the whole experience boring and I often find if the I go around doing everything in each area as I go up I tend to overlevel the areas, it's just like most games don't balance the rewards for exploring and doing all the side stuff for each area.

[Corona Scurrae]

I can understand but I never had a problem. I turn on level scaling when it's available since I don't enjoy fighting enemies that aren't a threat.

[DragonSeeker]

Final fantasy 8... the horror

[Cass]

Isn't this how most Bioware games function?

With a non-linear mission structure you need to make sure the player is able to beat whichever mission they choose to play.

[Run Now]

Originally posted by Oku:

Im actually hyped for that, there's good ways and bad ways to do it but if I just scale out of control and everything becomes trivial then it's boring to go back and do stuff I missed and I feel like I'm risking future enjoyment by doing side content. As long as the abilities and tools I have allow me to feel like I have more I can do in combat, the power fantasy is maintained.

Its definitely a subjective thing. For me it's hugely immersion breaking and usually doesn't make any sense within the story and game world that the low level stuff in low level areas become stronger and tougher (while almost always looking the same as they did at the beginning). When all enemies are normalized in difficulty with your strength level they become far less distinct and interesting.

All the more in games like this one which supposedly has very little variety in enemies, coupled with the inability to take control of the other party members. This means the fights are all the more repetitive and shallow.

[Run Now]

Originally posted by Cass:

Isn't this how most Bioware games function?

With a non-linear mission structure you need to make sure the player is able to beat whichever mission they choose to play.

I'm sure some of them have it, but no, or at least it wasn't the case back when they were making their name for great games. And I'd argue it's the opposite, in a linear game you essentially have built in level scaling because you can only progress in the intended direction. Applying that to an open world game means the game isn't that open and diverse because for some unspoken mysterious reason regardless of where and what you encounter its all normalized to your character.

Many games and franchises don't have level scaling in their RPGs and they are very successful in part because of it. Off the top of my head it seems there are fewer examples of level scaling huge success single player RPGs, but maybe I'm forgetting a bunch.

[Paro]

Originally posted by A Nilah ation:

I actually love level scaling because it means you can enjoy the entire world.

For example in diablo 4 I can go everywhere and enjoy combating enemies where without it, you'd get highlevel then be forced into a single corner of the world.

Recently when fallout TV show was popular I gave fallout 76 chance, how disappointing it was to see all the max level players were in a single corner of the map because that's simply where all the high level enemies are.

Love level scaling, so much better than the alternative ( there's no way you think a level 10 diablo character is the same strength as a level 60 300 paragon diablo 4 character)

This means you do NOT love RPG games. The whole "I can go anywhere at any level and do anything and always have the same challenge" people are anti-RPG and have taken over the space.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Kogoro:

Originally posted by Oku:

Im actually hyped for that, there's good ways and bad ways to do it but if I just scale out of control and everything becomes trivial then it's boring to go back and do stuff I missed and I feel like I'm risking future enjoyment by doing side content. As long as the abilities and tools I have allow me to feel like I have more I can do in combat, the power fantasy is maintained.

That's how I view it as well, I dislike having to fight enemies who are too weak just makes the whole experience boring and I often find if the I go around doing everything in each area as I go up I tend to overlevel the areas, it's just like most games don't balance the rewards for exploring and doing all the side stuff for each area.

The problem is that if it doesn't bother you that the level-1 crabs you fought 20 hours ago are still just as threatening after you've unlocked a sword crafted by a God, then you just don't "get" the RPG side of RPGs. You get the game side, but not the core of it.

RPGs predate video games fwiw. RPGs were mentally satisfying before they were mechanically satisfying in the form of video games. And people who truly love RPGs cannot divorce them from their core values.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Run Now:

Originally posted by Cass:

Isn't this how most Bioware games function?

With a non-linear mission structure you need to make sure the player is able to beat whichever mission they choose to play.

I'm sure some of them have it, but no, or at least it wasn't the case back when they were making their name for great games. And I'd argue it's the opposite, in a linear game you essentially have built in level scaling because you can only progress in the intended direction. Applying that to an open world game means the game isn't that open and diverse because for some unspoken mysterious reason regardless of where and what you encounter its all normalized to your character.

Many games and franchises don't have level scaling in their RPGs and they are very successful in part because of it. Off the top of my head it seems there are fewer examples of level scaling huge success single player RPGs, but maybe I'm forgetting a bunch.

Elden Ring is an incredible game that would have been utterly ruined if it had chosen to go the route of level scaling.

[Paro]

Originally posted by Rook:

so for example if there's a lvl 1 goblin and I'm lvl 5, it becomes lvl 5 goblin? big No.

Yep. It's one of those games. Unfortunately, we have to accept that the term "RPG gamer" now applies to people who love RPGs along with those who don't, and those who don't have grown.

The true RPG gamer is one who has cerebral enjoyment above all else while playing. The other type just drool and press buttons real fast.

[Run Now]

Originally posted by Paro:

Originally posted by Run Now:

I'm sure some of them have it, but no, or at least it wasn't the case back when they were making their name for great games. And I'd argue it's the opposite, in a linear game you essentially have built in level scaling because you can only progress in the intended direction. Applying that to an open world game means the game isn't that open and diverse because for some unspoken mysterious reason regardless of where and what you encounter its all normalized to your character.

Many games and franchises don't have level scaling in their RPGs and they are very successful in part because of it. Off the top of my head it seems there are fewer examples of level scaling huge success single player RPGs, but maybe I'm forgetting a bunch.

Elden Ring is an incredible game that would have been utterly ruined if it had chosen to go the route of level scaling.

It came to mind when I was writing this but not only those types of games would suffer from it.