What's happening?

[Mantaraya]

The only thing I'm worried about is that the current Bioware has paid more attention to the social message about the current times rather than the plot and expanding the lore of Thedas.

I log into the game to immerse myself in a fantasy world that I like, and not to hear about minorities and injustice in the real world once again.

[BadToast]

Yeah kinda weird how they keep putting injustices against minorities in the game like Elves and Mages.

[snowboundland]

One of my first Wardens in Dragon Age was a city elf. Themes of discrimination and injustice have been here from the very first game. I am sorry that transgender people existing, a banal part of human variation identified throughout the world, has rattled your psyche so.

Strengthen it and fill your life with love by disconnecting yourself from the conservative propaganda extremists that apparently have compelled you to have such bullsh*t concerns. Good luck to you -- but if you keep on your current path, good luck to your family and friends.

[little.punk.911]

The first game in the series Literally deals with the elves being treated horrible and the mages are locked away or lobotomized by a heavy handed church. That's part of the lore of Thedas. Unfortunately if you want an expanding world of Thedas, you'll have to deal with problems that at times mirror issues that have happened or that are going on in the real world. Its a Fantasy world that takes inspiration from the real world like many other very popular franchises.

[Mantaraya]

Originally posted by snowboundland:

One of my first Wardens in Dragon Age was a city elf. Themes of discrimination and injustice have been here from the very first game. I am sorry that transgender people existing, a banal part of human variation identified throughout the world, has rattled your psyche so.

Strengthen it and fill your life with love by disconnecting yourself from the conservative propaganda extremists that apparently have compelled you to have such bullsh*t concerns. Good luck to you -- but if you keep on your current path, good luck to your family and friends.

What the hell are you talking about. I have no complaints about the fact that a fantasy game shows injustice in fictional races and social groups. My complaint is that BioWare makes references to problems that happen in the real world. You feel the difference between the REAL WORLD and a fictional world with elves, goblins and all that stuff. This shows that the current BioWare writers are untalented scribblers who can't figure out how to best show injustice in a video game other than to simply copy the problems of our time. I myself can understand what is bad and what is good. A good writer would be able to show through the prism of the game what problems there are in the real world about inequality, injustice and oppression.

[snowboundland]

Racism and discrimination also happens in the real world. And it's not just between elves and humans. It's also within those races. One of the dwarven origins has you play as a "Casteless" dwarf. That is a real life issue, with the literal exact same terminology; they just adapted it to Thedas.

I am not sure why transgender people or sexuality is any different. There is nothing about those issues that should be off limits or makes it bad writing to include them in Thedas. Fantasy isn't just for people like you.

Get a life, seriously. Go talk to someone you care about, instead of sh*tting up everyone's virtual space over your stupid "concerns'.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by Red Phantom:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

One of my first Wardens in Dragon Age was a city elf. Themes of discrimination and injustice have been here from the very first game. I am sorry that transgender people existing, a banal part of human variation identified throughout the world, has rattled your psyche so.

Strengthen it and fill your life with love by disconnecting yourself from the conservative propaganda extremists that apparently have compelled you to have such bullsh*t concerns. Good luck to you -- but if you keep on your current path, good luck to your family and friends.

"If you don't agree with the politics of current Bioware devs, you should really think about what you're doing in life. You should completely abandon whatever it is you value that has led to any kind of differences in opinion with Trick Weekes. Maybe seek therapy or commit yourself to an institution for the good of everyone around you."

When the weird extremists you get your opinions from pull apart their ♥♥♥♥-covered cheeks and unleash their turd waterfall of opinions, I suggest not standing underneath them, mouth agape. You might do better in life; you might be less miserable; you might even find yourself with more free time and peace. Be happy. Stop being so stupid. Come on.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by Red Phantom:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

When the weird extremists you get your opinions from pull apart their ♥♥♥♥-covered cheeks and unleash their turd waterfall of opinions, I suggest not standing underneath them, mouth agape. You might do better in life; you might be less miserable; you might even find yourself with more free time and peace. Be happy. Stop being so stupid. Come on.

Again, the entire logic behind what you're saying is that if I don't uncritically accept the personal political views of the people who worked on this game, it's because I've allowed myself to be brainwashed by extremists. Maybe you're projecting an inability to think for yourself, since that's the only way you can frame the argument?

I mean surely you can't believe this game is some kind of absolute expression of truth which only the deranged would dare not to acknowledge as such? Because if you do, that's deranged.

If your problem with this game is the inclusion of transgender people, including an optional scar in the character select screen, I indeed am certain you have been brainwashed by conservative extremists.

Transgender people are just a natural part of human variation and they are found everywhere throughout the world, and there are records of them across time. I don't know what to tell you. You believe in bullsh*t and that's making you have weird, stupid criticisms of this game. Probably can't be good for your blood pressure either.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by Enfield:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

Racism and discrimination also happens in the real world. And it's not just between elves and humans. It's also within those races. One of the dwarven origins has you play as a "Casteless" dwarf. That is a real life issue, with the literal exact same terminology; they just adapted it to Thedas.

I am not sure why transgender people or sexuality is any different. There is nothing about those issues that should be off limits or makes it bad writing to include them in Thedas. Fantasy isn't just for people like you.

Get a life, seriously. Go talk to someone you care about, instead of sh*tting up everyone's virtual space over your stupid "concerns'.

The crux of it is that many do not see gender ideology as a legitimate struggle against oppression but rather the normalisation of mental illness as an objective reality. If I want to surgically remove my genitals, I am a victim of society and many are keen to offer me "healthcare" in the form of chemical castration and surgery. But if I have another body dysmorphia - like I feel my left hand is not part of my body and I want a surgeon to cut it off to feel at peace in my skin - good luck finding a surgeon willing to touch that - purely a psychiatric issue according to current medical standards.

That's because those things are not the same, and indeed there is evidence that letting people transition helps their mental health and lets them live happy and fulfilling lives. Unfortunately, sometimes medical evidence contradicts our prior beliefs. A critical thinker adapts; an ideologue doubles down and sees conspiracy everywhere.


Ultimately, there is no reason to terrorize people for being transgender. And it's such a f*cking cruel thing to do to people. Live your life. Stop adding misery to a world so full of it. And over a videogame? Come on now.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by R-Boni:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

One of my first Wardens in Dragon Age was a city elf. Themes of discrimination and injustice have been here from the very first game.

Interesting that one could easily turn this argument around.

Yes, racism and prejudice were common themes in Dragon Age back in the day.

So how exactly do you reconcile a world that is dark and cruel like this but at the same time "accepting" and "inclusive" with trans and non-binary individuals?

Let's be honest, Dragon Age values being "less offensive" and "representative" these days than dealing with those dark themes.

I don't expect fiction to 1-to-1 mirror real life culture. Why should you? I have read all kinds of books and seen all kinds of shows and games where people may be inspired by real life experiences but adapt them in their own way.

And honestly, from what I understand, they have written a complicated world where these horrible things exist, just like ours, but there are also pockets and spaces where it matters less. I think that's realistic. And I don't see anything immersion breaking about letting the player personalize the character to the extent possible.

I think the huffing and puffing over something like this is weird.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by Seekrt:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

If your problem with this game is the inclusion of transgender people, including an optional scar in the character select screen, I indeed am certain you have been brainwashed by conservative extremists.

Transgender people are just a natural part of human variation and they are found everywhere throughout the world, and there are records of them across time. I don't know what to tell you. You believe in bullsh*t and that's making you have weird, stupid criticisms of this game. Probably can't be good for your blood pressure either.

Do you even know what a transgender is?

A regular human being? Someone who deserves respect and who you should feel bad about making your entire identity fashioned to hate them? Do something productive with your time. Make some f*cking fan art of some Sonic characters or something. Get a life and let people live theirs.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by Enfield:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

That's because those things are not the same, and indeed there is evidence that letting people transition helps their mental health and lets them live happy and fulfilling lives. Unfortunately, sometimes medical evidence contradicts our prior beliefs. A critical thinker adapts; an ideologue doubles down and sees conspiracy everywhere.


Ultimately, there is no reason to terrorize people for being transgender. And it's such a f*cking cruel thing to do to people. Live your life. Stop adding misery to a world so full of it. And over a videogame? Come on now.

Or are they very similar psychological problems? - only dysmophia related to sexual traits like genitals and breasts has been turned into an entire medical industry with very poor evidence that it provides any long-term benefit? Anyone who actually tries to critically evaluate these methods or propose psychological treatment alternatives loses their career very quickly...it is not proper evidence based medicine - more like feelings based medicine. Similar to how doctors are being accused of fatphobia these days.

Words, criticism, even if vulgar, are not terrorism. The Trans community is almost impossible to talk to - you either embrace every whim they come up with or you are accused of actively trying to kill them. I think it is cruel to not provide proper treatment to people who are sick, but we cannot even challenge the drive for surgery over psych treatment. Vocal detransitioners are considered traitors rather than victims of faulty treatment.

That's just all a load of sh*t, I'm sorry. People have been transgender for a long time, including surgical transexuals, for decades. People have been living a happy life just being themselves, in those pockets where they were allowed to and weren't hunted down. Life is complicated though. Some people detransition. And? Tons of medical procedures and solutions are not universal. Let those people who try it out and it's not for them -- like a family member of mine -- detransition. And let those whose life improves, let them transition too. The medical evidence isn't ambiguous about the benefits of transition, including in some cases, surgical, for people.

It's not that easy for transgender people to even go through that process.


The medical field isn't lying. The weird streamers, politicians, and other hatemongers agitating hate crowds against a game because of an optional scar in a character select screen, however....

You talk about transgender community not being open to listening. I think you should look in the mirror and interrogate where you get your beliefs and why you believe in these conspiracies. Maybe the medical consensus isn't wrong; maybe it's you and your "sources" of disinformation.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by Seekrt:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

A regular human being? Someone who deserves respect and who you should feel bad about making your entire identity fashioned to hate them? Do something productive with your time. Make some f*cking fan art of some Sonic characters or something. Get a life and let people live theirs.

You are making all sorts of statements based on nothing.,
There were no transgenders in antiquity. They were bi-sexuals, there were straights and there were gay.

You tell people to get a life while you obviously don't know what you are talking about. Unless you are just trolling and/or baiting.

Nope. Go educate yourself after you draw that Sonic fanart. Go make Rogue the Bat's boobs as big as you want them, or whatever you people are crying about today.

Transgender people are a part of the historical record all around the world. That's just objective reality.

Damn, the education system is going downhill. I wouldn't be surprised people like you cheer for that though.

[snowboundland]

Originally posted by R-Boni:

Originally posted by snowboundland:

I don't expect fiction to 1-to-1 mirror real life culture. Why should you? I have read all kinds of books and seen all kinds of shows and games where people may be inspired by real life experiences but adapt them in their own way.

And honestly, from what I understand, they have written a complicated world where these horrible things exist, just like ours, but there are also pockets and spaces where it matters less. I think that's realistic. And I don't see anything immersion breaking about letting the player personalize the character to the extent possible.

I think the huffing and puffing over something like this is weird.

I think the change and inconsistency in tone are clear throughout the series. I even pointed out that the Inquisitor themselves can show surprise at Krem and even ask the Iron Bull if he doesn't find Krem "odd".

If The Veilguard's writing is any good... guess we need to wait and see. But you can't blame people for being pessimistic.

Having criticisms, having questions, having misgivings, that's one thing. But we got a full blown weird hate movement here about people just attacking the game, and even worse, people behind the game or just people in general, because of surgery scars, black and asian elves, whatever else the f*ck outrage du jour is.

But whatever, I'm bored and waiting for this game to release. I'm a little pissed though this sh*t is so rampant those of us who are longtime DA fans can't even talk about it normally.