I think the criticisms of DAV are overblown.

[Rain]

At least in some respects. If you ignore the "woke" stuff and also do not have the expectations that come with waiting 10 years for another DA game then this game is more well designed that people might credit it.

This, essentially, is the Dragon Age version of Cyberpunk hype. People were seriously going to have high expectations and they were let down because of it. I didn't have these even though I love the DA franchise.

So lets review some of the other complaints;

1. Linearity. This game is no more linear than DAO and DA2 was. The only difference is that DAO had a moving camp for a base of operations that gave a feeling of cohesion in the game world. It was also an illusion. You were moving from one map to another.

Brecillian Forest. Deep Roads, Mage Tower. They were all linear experiences and they had their nooks and crannies to explore. Veilguard is no different. It has more to explore and many maps to do so and they are quite large once you start unlocking things.

2. Combat. Whether or not you like the combat is seriously, I think, based upon your previous experience in video game presentations of said combat. If you were to judge this strictly by going from DAO to Veilguard then this combat is more a mix between DA2 and Inquisition with a little bit more leaning to the "action" of DA2 specifically.

I play on Nightmare. I turn all combat indicators off and I find myself sufficiently challenged and engaged with the combat. It's flashy, sounds good and it fits the art presentation. It also makes it feel epic to me. This, to me, feels like a more refined DA2/Inquisition combat system.

3. Dialogue. There are some "roll-your-eyes" conversations in this game, yes, but I think the heavy criticism in this regard is mostly for the prologue. It does get better and does have it's moments. Again, expectations. It feels more... "casual" than you would expect, but also takes itself seriously when it needs to. It performs well enough, but don't expect top of the line.

4. Characters. I have unlocked half of the roster at this point and despite initial impressions of Bellara being an idiot -- after I had played for a while and spoken to the characters in-game most, if not all, of them have pleasantly surprised me. It is an issue of empathizing and caring about them and seeing them grow.

I hated Bellara in the beginning, but once I did the first companion quest for her my opinion changed. That is saying something for me.

That is really all I got. Just my two cents, anyways.

[Ignis Imperia]

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:

1.) yes
2.) You thought harpies were bad? Allow me to introduce you to THICK HARPIES in the second half of the game, every single time without fail appear when you least need them to

2) ALL harpies. I'm normally a fan of conservationist efforts, but harpies should go extinct.

Boy do I have a deal for you, I get harpies, you get the giant eagle ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the narrow ledge at the alternative way to the desert. With the occasional griffin divebomb for good measure.

[rowenic22dwp]

Originally posted by Rain:

3. Dialogue. It performs well enough, but don't expect top of the line.

Why even bother then. Bioware built the reputation that they (used) to have on the back of great dialogue and if thats what you have to say about this game then why would i even bother

[[SiN]Rabbit]

Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

2) ALL harpies. I'm normally a fan of conservationist efforts, but harpies should go extinct.

Boy do I have a deal for you, I get harpies, you get the giant eagle ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on the narrow ledge at the alternative way to the desert. With the occasional griffin divebomb for good measure.

Giant eagles are just harpies, in my book. Curse all those flying jerks!

i actually don't mind the griffins since they're a big monster and therefore a fun fight. I like all the big monsters.

Also, on the Veilguard topic that this is ostensibly about, I have found my biggest critique of the gameplay, and one of my favorite aspects of the game design.

Critique: I abhor and loathe, beyond belief, that cities and towns have small unmarked merchants who carry items that buff the player permanently, or mementos for the caretaker to upgrade the... weapon upgrading.

Praise: The item rarity system. It's so good. I just got my first Legendary item, the item itself is kind of garbage and I plan to replace it as soon as I can, but the fact that gear can go up to legendary rarity and the way they upgrade it is, I find, really awesome. (I'm also a big fan of the unique gear, too).

The build-variety in this game really excites me.

[Ignis Imperia]

Originally posted by rowenic22dwp:

Originally posted by Rain:

3. Dialogue. It performs well enough, but don't expect top of the line.

Why even bother then. Bioware built the reputation that they (used) to have on the back of great dialogue and if thats what you have to say about this game then why would i even bother

I'd say they more built themselves on relatable characters and worlds we become connected with so we feel impact when those worlds burn and those characters make sacrifices. That to me makes Mass Effect at least which is to me the more iconic BioWare trilogy. Then again, might just be different strokes for different folks.

And yes characters in Veilguard still pale in comparison to Mass Effect's, except Neve and Lucanis (and ASSAN!) who are still way better than Jacob. (Low bar, I know)

[Kiya]

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

Praise: The item rarity system. It's so good. I just got my first Legendary item, the item itself is kind of garbage and I plan to replace it as soon as I can, but the fact that gear can go up to legendary rarity and the way they upgrade it is, I find, really awesome. (I'm also a big fan of the unique gear, too).

The build-variety in this game really excites me.

Yes, this is a game I can see myself replaying a few times to experiment more with different builds.

[Ignis Imperia]

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

Critique: I abhor and loathe, beyond belief, that cities and towns have small unmarked merchants who carry items that buff the player permanently, or mementos for the caretaker to upgrade the... weapon upgrading.

What I would love from this is the system from Mass Effect 3 where once you talk to the trader once, they get tracked in your hub and you can buy from them remotely with like 10% price hike. I felt that was such good QoL. Alternatively at least make it so if I upgrade faction in that region to say tier 2 or tier 3, all merchants' inventories from that zone will be accessible through that vendor. I believe that would be a good compromise.

[Ignis Imperia]

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

The build-variety in this game really excites me.

Sorry to double respond but I am too lazy to edit my comment and make sure I don't break it and I noticed something I kind of am conflicted on, the build variety. While you can absolutely make a ton of different builds in the game and that gives it ton of replayability for sure, and I am looking forward to my next character (even if I will take a bit of a break first after I finish the game, because I hate playing one game for too long), I loathe the Path of Exile-ish approach to the perks themselves myself. Specifically how so many of them are just "+10% weakpoint damage" and so on. I feel I'd much rather have like half the levels we have at the moment but replace every 2-4 of these with 1 that say does "+25% weakpoint damage, hitting a weakpoint generates 2 momentum" so each point marks a significant improvement.

Currently I feel while waiting for my level 30 veil ranger perks to unlock like I am just scraping the barrel for tiny improvements that don't really impact how I play in general.

[[SiN]Rabbit]

Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

The build-variety in this game really excites me.

Sorry to double respond but I am too lazy to edit my comment and make sure I don't break it and I noticed something I kind of am conflicted on, the build variety. While you can absolutely make a ton of different builds in the game and that gives it ton of replayability for sure, and I am looking forward to my next character (even if I will take a bit of a break first after I finish the game, because I hate playing one game for too long), I loathe the Path of Exile-ish approach to the perks themselves myself. Specifically how so many of them are just "+10% weakpoint damage" and so on. I feel I'd much rather have like half the levels we have at the moment but replace every 2-4 of these with 1 that say does "+25% weakpoint damage, hitting a weakpoint generates 2 momentum" so each point marks a significant improvement.

Currently I feel while waiting for my level 30 veil ranger perks to unlock like I am just scraping the barrel for tiny improvements that don't really impact how I play in general.

I'm actually going veil ranger as well, level 31... or 32? I pretty much accidentally ended up as an archer because I'm just doing so much consistent damage there, and with the first legendary item I got, the game has now revealed all the legendary-upgrade effects on every item...

And, well.... Without telling you the gear 'cause I dunno if you want those spoilers, I'm definitely sticking as a ranger, but I'm excited for the ability to go so solely, completely, into a single archtype like that.

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, I think the end result is going to be arrows dealing like 2000 damage or something obscene like that.

I really hope that a focused melee-rogue can also achieve a similarly obscene damage output, and the same for the other classes focusing on their builds. Right now, it looks like rogues have at least a ranged and a melee build variety, and a skills/tools build may be possible as well. I'm not sure. The items add a lot to it. The item design and rarity system actually might be my favorite ever, and I love the looter-design of Diablo and Borderlands and the like. But this design makes every piece of gear awesome and worth collecting.

[Ignis Imperia]

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:

Sorry to double respond but I am too lazy to edit my comment and make sure I don't break it and I noticed something I kind of am conflicted on, the build variety. While you can absolutely make a ton of different builds in the game and that gives it ton of replayability for sure, and I am looking forward to my next character (even if I will take a bit of a break first after I finish the game, because I hate playing one game for too long), I loathe the Path of Exile-ish approach to the perks themselves myself. Specifically how so many of them are just "+10% weakpoint damage" and so on. I feel I'd much rather have like half the levels we have at the moment but replace every 2-4 of these with 1 that say does "+25% weakpoint damage, hitting a weakpoint generates 2 momentum" so each point marks a significant improvement.

Currently I feel while waiting for my level 30 veil ranger perks to unlock like I am just scraping the barrel for tiny improvements that don't really impact how I play in general.

I'm actually going veil ranger as well, level 31... or 32? I pretty much accidentally ended up as an archer because I'm just doing so much consistent damage there, and with the first legendary item I got, the game has now revealed all the legendary-upgrade effects on every item...

And, well.... Without telling you the gear 'cause I dunno if you want those spoilers, I'm definitely sticking as a ranger, but I'm excited for the ability to go so solely, completely, into a single archtype like that.

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, I think the end result is going to be arrows dealing like 2000 damage or something obscene like that.

I really hope that a focused melee-rogue can also achieve a similarly obscene damage output, and the same for the other classes focusing on their builds. Right now, it looks like rogues have at least a ranged and a melee build variety, and a skills/tools build may be possible as well. I'm not sure. The items add a lot to it. The item design and rarity system actually might be my favorite ever, and I love the looter-design of Diablo and Borderlands and the like. But this design makes every piece of gear awesome and worth collecting.

I am going to be honest and say I don't plan ahead at all and just cheese bosses by spamming rain of arrows that permanently shocks everything and then yeet them around with the storm path arrow combo'ing with Taash's abilities (don't hate me, she has the best abilities for combos with me unfortunately), I will get more into build planning with subsequent playthrough but at the moment this works well enough, also my momentum generation is through the roof because I hyperboost it through rings and stuff.

[Ignis Imperia]

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

I really hope that a focused melee-rogue can also achieve a similarly obscene damage output, and the same for the other classes focusing on their builds. Right now, it looks like rogues have at least a ranged and a melee build variety, and a skills/tools build may be possible as well. I'm not sure. The items add a lot to it. The item design and rarity system actually might be my favorite ever, and I love the looter-design of Diablo and Borderlands and the like. But this design makes every piece of gear awesome and worth collecting.

Also my primary dislike for ranger at the moment is I saw that in control tree at the top you can get Pilfer for melee rogue, which is endless supply for pots, given I am ♥♥♥♥ at dodging bosses, I really struggle without a way to replenish those.

[[SiN]Rabbit]

Originally posted by Ignis Imperia:

Originally posted by SiNRabbit:

I'm actually going veil ranger as well, level 31... or 32? I pretty much accidentally ended up as an archer because I'm just doing so much consistent damage there, and with the first legendary item I got, the game has now revealed all the legendary-upgrade effects on every item...

And, well.... Without telling you the gear 'cause I dunno if you want those spoilers, I'm definitely sticking as a ranger, but I'm excited for the ability to go so solely, completely, into a single archtype like that.

Unless I'm doing the math wrong, I think the end result is going to be arrows dealing like 2000 damage or something obscene like that.

I really hope that a focused melee-rogue can also achieve a similarly obscene damage output, and the same for the other classes focusing on their builds. Right now, it looks like rogues have at least a ranged and a melee build variety, and a skills/tools build may be possible as well. I'm not sure. The items add a lot to it. The item design and rarity system actually might be my favorite ever, and I love the looter-design of Diablo and Borderlands and the like. But this design makes every piece of gear awesome and worth collecting.

I am going to be honest and say I don't plan ahead at all and just cheese bosses by spamming rain of arrows that permanently shocks everything and then yeet them around with the storm path arrow combo'ing with Taash's abilities (don't hate me, she has the best abilities for combos with me unfortunately), I will get more into build planning with subsequent playthrough but at the moment this works well enough, also my momentum generation is through the roof because I hyperboost it through rings and stuff.

I didn't start planning ahead until I got that first legendary item and looked through the gear I was using, and the gear I liked, and saw "don't spend arrows if at max momentum" and "+4% damage per arrow max".. or on that second one, my alternative is "+10% electric damage per remaining arrow". I genuinely can't tell which of those two will have the strong damage in that combination.

I've loved using Taash for their ability to combo with my abilities, and Bellara as well so that I have the potential for 3 detonations all together if I wait for Taash to do an over-whelm, or two otherwise, but soon I'm just going to be the arrow-god walking around hip-firing everything to death.

Also, that's important, I already do 2000 damage with a charged arrow. My hipfired arrows at 800 to 1000. I think I'm going to double-or-more my damage, once I get the upgraded gear for it.

It's so thrilling.

[Kiya]

Originally posted by Taff:

The woke ones might be overblown. Here are some actual issues:
1. Skill tree is the same across classes with only the main keystones which lead to their specialization being adapted to the picked class. Which means, each class plays the same, with only the abilities you're given. Support tree is utterly useless.
2. Enemies have literally 2 mechanics, there is some variation between champions, but that variation comes in the form of a different damage type. Some do physical, some do lightning. The moves are literally the same.
3. Rogues deal the same damage as warriors, without the benefit of having a shield to block without perfect block/parry. Some skills in the tree for Rogue don't work like the one that changes the Strike ability damage type to physical.

Originally posted by Kiya:

Yes, this is a game I can see myself replaying a few times to experiment more with different builds.

What build variety? It's 3 classes, that's all the variety you'll get.

The different skill trees for each class are huge. You can specialise or you can spread the points around. There is huge amounts of replayability in finding different combinations that synergise well together.

Edited to add - it's also really satisfying when you figure out a really cool set of abilities/spells that work well together

Edited to add again - if any of you have played grim dawn or titan quest, the skills trees remind me a bit of how you can create builds in those games

Edit to my edits - On top of that, different skills will synergise with those of your companions giving more combinations to figure out. It's one of the coolest parts of the game.

[Effie Love]

I intentionally didn't set expectations because it's a guarentee way to destroy your chance of enjoyment before you ever got a chance. Nothing can ever live up to your hopes and dreams. This game is fun as hell. It's not the developers fault that some people don't know how to manage their feelings and expectations to realistic degrees

[Hexy]

Originally posted by Termix:

Originally posted by Hexy:

lets be real you prolly can't cuz you haven't played the game, i've seen this talking point mentioned a million times in these discussions and like brainwashed npcs, you constantly talk about disagreeing with taash like its the only point you can make, are there any other points in the game you can talk about or is it just that one XD?

Like this is one of the reasons why the OP was saying the criticisms were overblown, game is fun even if i have my own criticisms of it, it's nowhere near as bad as yall make it out to be

It's just one example of bad writing/dialogue that doesn't spoil any story points and I wasn't the one who brought it up, I was just willing to discuss it, to transform that into a "gotcha you're one of the bad faith actors" is the sort of mental gymnastics I'm not willing to compete in.

I also never said that the game was bad, in fact I acknowledged that I would most likely enjoy the combat and that I enjoy the graphics, minus a few dopey looking character designs.
I'm not buying it due to the writing/lack of choice I've seen (way more than the Taash scenes) and I know it would break my immersion, which is the worst thing for me.

In fact OP gave us his opinion, so from his perspective it's a true statement, others might think the opposite and their opinions are not worth less.

All of that and you can still only mention the taash scene lol, I'm asking for examples and you can't even give me these "immersion breaking" examples either xD cuz that taash scene isn't a spoiler either right?

Just spoiler tag if you don't want others to see it ^^

[Vixziค็็็็็n]

Originally posted by Hexy:

Originally posted by Termix:

It's just one example of bad writing/dialogue that doesn't spoil any story points and I wasn't the one who brought it up, I was just willing to discuss it, to transform that into a "gotcha you're one of the bad faith actors" is the sort of mental gymnastics I'm not willing to compete in.

I also never said that the game was bad, in fact I acknowledged that I would most likely enjoy the combat and that I enjoy the graphics, minus a few dopey looking character designs.
I'm not buying it due to the writing/lack of choice I've seen (way more than the Taash scenes) and I know it would break my immersion, which is the worst thing for me.

In fact OP gave us his opinion, so from his perspective it's a true statement, others might think the opposite and their opinions are not worth less.

All of that and you can still only mention the taash scene lol, I'm asking for examples and you can't even give me these "immersion breaking" examples either xD cuz that taash scene isn't a spoiler either right?

Just spoiler tag if you don't want others to see it ^^

The majority of the dialogue is immersion breaking. First of all why are characters talking as if they are sitting around at some bubble tea shop going on about relationships and other drama like it's the housewives? You and I both know why...it's because they think they come across as more relatable this way. They don't. Not to the majority of people that play RPGs.

It's not just one example there are multiple characters that do this. Some of them are much better but that it's just someone focusing on Taash simply so that you can make your 'its about the gays' narrative is ridiculous.