Dragon Age 4 doesn't feel like Dragon Age (spoilers)

[Cjshack]

Hey all,

I know that Veilguard is embroiled in controversy over it's diverse politics and inclusion initiatives and I'm all for the video game industry adopting these ideas. Different people exist and should be represented in games. My post has nothing to do about that and everything to do with a general feeling that I have in my brief stint with this game:

It doesn't feel like a Dragon Age game.

I've had absolutely no time to feel involved with my character. In Origins, you had the opportunity to see your characters backstory first hand. You could make choices inside of your origin story that had real impact on the remainder of your game. In Dragon age 2, you get thrown into the story and then it throws you right back to the start. You have the opportunity to know Hawke, your sister, Varric, and instead of living at the "height of the action" you had the time to peel back the world around you, investigate, and immerse yourself into a world that had real politics, factions, and connections. Even in Inquisition, you could really slow things down after you close the first rift. You start building your forces and the rest is history.

Veilguard feels like a "Non-stop action" sort of thing. We don't want to slowdown the narrative - immediately pitting us against Solas and losing any build up that inquisition had attempted to create - and we really want the player to feel like they're doing something huge. So let's show them the gods that they are fighting and keep pushing them that direction. no intrigue, no discovery, just a big slap in the face of what the story is, and it's the same thing with the dialogue.

The conversations feel painfully action adventure and perhaps, as my partner pointed out, I am only now recognizing that Dragon Age dialogue has always been "Now its time to stop the gods" and "Erm, it's kinda my thing." and being painfully obvious with character motivations and personality but I really don't think that's the case. Rook's dialogue feels super trite as well. Even Rook's interaction with the world around them is like "huh that's odd. Did you hear that? etc." and not just trusting that the player can uncover story elements, or even read.

Veilguard feels like an action-adventure game masquerading as an RPG and, knowing EA, it is extremely likely that they pushed these ideas onto the franchise - vainly hoping that if they make it more "sellable" with non-stop action, painfully obvious characters, and excellent graphics that people will lose their minds over it.

It just feels really formulaic to me, and I'm not that far into the game, but it feels really divorced from other Dragon Age games and I'm disappointed so far.

[Antonio_]

Thanks for the review. It's nice to read a normal take.

I wish there were more normal discussions like this instead of all the rage bait posts and biased impressions on the game.

[Sinophile]

I know that Veilguard is embroiled in controversy

How is doing what other AAA games have been doing for the last few years controversial?
Cyberpunk had trans/nonbinary characters. Even Red Dead Redemption which came out in 2018 had tons of "wokeness". The only exception would be non-American games like Final Fantasy.

In Origins, you had the opportunity to see your characters backstory first hand

You had 6 Origins to choose from. Bioware was certainly going for replayability. The succeeding titles didn't have this but my background was referenced a huge number of times. For reference I chose the Antivan Crow background. Even the fact I am an elf is referenced quite frequently.

The conversations feel painfully action adventure

If anything Dragon Age is kinda cliche. You have either Space Hitler or Magical Hitler to save the world/universe from. You have to go on quests and gather allies. DA:O had a more old-school dialog system .

Veilguard feels like an action-adventure game masquerading as an RPG

You mean an action-rpg, or an action game with rpg elements, akin to Kingdom Hearts, or Devil May Cry?

knowing EA, it is extremely likely that they pushed these ideas onto the franchise

They did the same thing with Mass effect(The last game Bioware released before the EA takeover). Look at how far fewer RPG elements ME2 had compared to ME1. However, they brought back some rpg elements with ME3. Any AA game is going to go for mass appeal. If you want something Avant Garde, you play an Indie game, which will spend 3 years as early access before becoming abandonware.

[Antonio_]

Hey man, don't worry about the guy above. He is extremely prone to getting offended and defensive about the game to the point where it sounds like trolling.

Edit: After looking at his posts, it seems it's the wrong guy. I coulda swore his avatar looked familiar.

You're allowed to have an opinion.

[Horrible Marksman]

The backgrounds in Origins were probably my favorite part. I'd agree that it's a bit disappointing not to get a hands on experience with the backstory event we are presented with here. Returning to Orzammar as a dwarf noble and dealing with the election was much more interesting after playing that backstory. I hated Bhelen with a passion because of it, but Harrowmont's isolationist and traditionalist policies were terrible. It made for an even better playthrough with the way things tie together.

I haven't reached my backstory relevant faction yet so I don't know how much is presented, but it definitely would have been nice to see it more than be told it. Thus far it's been mentioned a few times and being a dwarf has been referenced a fair bit, which I'm happy about. One problem with Origins was that your backstory--other than human noble--had very little relevance outside of your particular starter zone.

The companions and overall writing do seem rather similar to me though, but I've never really thought Bioware writing was extraordinary. They write fun but fairly one-dimensional characters and give us a a cool world with cool lore and then give us a relatively generic hero story to play with.

The companion story for almost all of them equates to some personality defining trauma that pretty much has determined everything about who they are and needs to be dealt with by the player. Alistair's self doubt as he hides behind his sense of humor, Morrigan's unpleasant eventual fate, Leliana's profession/religious disconnect, etc. I'm not far enough in to see how many of them still follow that basic structure, but Bellara certainly seems to based on the last quest I did for her. Still enjoyable though. Bellara, for example, feels like a cross between Mordin and Merril. She feels like she fits the standard formula for a bioware character.

One other thing, the whole calling stuff out thing. Some of these maps are actually fairly large which makes me appreciate the call outs. I also think it's nice that they gave players an option to turn on/off direction--though I assume it doesn't affect the call outs--since I'd have loved playing without direction back in the day. I just don't have the time these days to hunt down random quest object #1000 in bush #100003. I'd say the characters communicating with each other is a fairly immersive way to give the player that information.

[Boss]

Veilguard just isn't Dragon Age. I won't go into all the differences (it's astoundingly different),. But mainly, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and compare it to what Saints Row 3 was to Saints Row 2. THAT change in direction was controversial. And it feels like a proper, direct comparison.

Saints Row 2 was grounded, took itself seriously while having some light humor. Then Saints Row 3 "cartoonified" the genre and stopped taking itself seriously.

Veilguard is the same way. Just look at the companions. None of them feel like they're genuinely afraid. It's like a bunch of bros LARPing while trying to stay 'in theme'; it's bizarre.

Of course, the much fairer comparison wouldn't be Saints Row 2 versus 3 (I was being generious), but more akin to the god awful, "Woke" Saints Row reboot.

[DarkAcolyte]

Originally posted by Sinophile:

I know that Veilguard is embroiled in controversy

How is doing what other AAA games have been doing for the last few years controversial?
Cyberpunk had trans/nonbinary characters. Even Red Dead Redemption which came out in 2018 had tons of "wokeness". The only exception would be non-American games like Final Fantasy.

Oh, we must have played different games then, because I don’t recall any NPCs getting upset and doing punishment push ups for misgendering others in those games. Or some cringe worthy lines about how it’s good to see myself for who I am as trans blah blah blah

[Sinophile]

Yeah...I'm honestly surprised they never tried to do that again.

How many players actually did all 6 Origins? I loved the City elf, followed by human noble. The other 4 I couldn't care less about.

[Mentally Unstable]

I wouldn't mind it that much if that had actually stuck with dreadwolf like they originally intended to. When they changed it to veilguard, I had a sinking feeling.

My pet peeve is that they set up Solas to be a major continuation in the trespasser dlc (I actually bought it before GOTY version was a thing), only to relegate him to a mere cameo in this game. The hell? It feels like they are trying to drag it out.

[Mentally Unstable]

Originally posted by Marlon Brandolorian:

Solas makes multiple appearances with dialogue between Rook and Solas, and helps drive the main narrative of the game. Far more than a cameo

PFFT.

Compared to what was in trespasser? This is barely anything. Essentially a cameo.

[jtiller]

Interestingly, either I'm suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, or the game has begun to pick up and be much more engaging. I wasn't having much fun initially, and I believe I fell into the trap that turned off so many players in DA:I - spending WAY too long in the early side quests without advancing the main storyline. Surprisingly, after FINALLY getting some Grey Warden involvement, the story seems to have really picked up and I feel more invested.

Honestly, another one of the problems I suffered from is that Bellara is a pretty weak companion story- and dialogue-wise, and I invested way to much time into their quests early on. If I had ignored some of the fluffy side stuff and been a little more focused on the main quest, I'd probably have had more fun.

A final thing: if you're playing a rogue or a mage, you REALLY want to advance the main storyline almost exclusively until you get your first warrior companion. It's night and day once you're not the only aggro ♥♥♥♥♥.

Have fun!

[Horrible Marksman]

I played through all the intros just to see them but human noble, dwarf noble, and city elf were the only ones I actually used for characters. They did all have fairly interesting stories but some, at least for me, had much more interesting stakes.

[DaylightDemon]

ive been thinking about this aswell. the game feels like its a lighthearted fantasy take on the mass effect formula, but with more puzzles and a metroidvania style world. its pretty videogamey. the dialogue and story reminds me a bit of casual dnd with your friend group. it doesnt take itself too seriously but is still tons of fun.

my theory as to why the game turned out like it did is:

1) you CANT compete with baldurs gate 3. baldurs gate 3 pretty much perfectly does what dragon age could also do with a more classical western rpg approach. bioware knew if they went in that direction, they would be compared to bg3 and lose.

2) they know their target audience: geeks that are also into dnd. remember that dnd movie honour among thieves? DA: veilguard reminds me a lot of that movie, in a good way.

for what it is, i think the game is pretty good. the gameplay loop is snappy and rewarding. i have fun exploring the world and finding extra money or equipment to get stronger. the fights are combo heavy and dynamic. as the game moves on its less and less primary attack spamming and more and more spell combos and stacks of synergies.

i respect and understand everybody that sais this is not dragon age for them. that too much of the dna is lost. but if you think about it, a lot of the dna is still present. just streamlined into a "blockbuster" sort of fantasy flick.