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Q from an interview
A from that interview
(has various plot spoilers)
https://www.eurogamer.net/the-big-dragon-age-the-veilguard-post-release-interview-it-was-never-going-to-match-the-dragon-age-4-in-peoples-minds
The only issue from your perspective is indeed Taash. But not the non-binary point, it's more about the writing itself. Her storyline (except the last one) felt unnatural, forced and combined with the bad dialog options, just didn't fit into this game. You just couldn't say: Your mom ist right, behave yourself and don't be such a b****. Everything Rook can say, is siding with Taash, wich annoyed me. But this is an issue almost every companion had, except Neve, Emmrich and Davrin.
But I think that the german translation made it even worse for me, cause they kinda slaughtered the german language.
I agree with you that Taash is very out of place, due to writing and the voice actor's "angry teenage girl who can't fit in" style. I found myself only being able to keep my sanity by detaching myself from the bad dialog as well as the fact that this is supposed to be Dragon Age, and imagining her as an Apex Legends character. I could swear I heard her voice in that game too. Perhaps I only like Taash because I have managed to ignore the pronoun stuff completely, which is arguably her entire plot. If you analyze Taash's dialog lines, I think she doesn't make as many silly jokes as Bellara and she doesn't say as much nonsense as Harding. Instead, she is introverted and quiet, saying only as much as needed (similarly to Neve). Perhaps that is why I can stand her more than Bellara. One exception is the pronoun ultra-cringe scene with her mother, where she throws a huge tantrum like a 6-year-old - but I managed to conveniently repress that.
Think of Taash as a sort of trauma dumping/self-insertion character. Taash struggling with her mother is obviously a real-world reference to nonbinary people struggling to get people to use they/them. The Qun represents Christianity or traditional values. Taash doesn't fit in those. Her mother ends up finally using "they/them" pronouns as she dies. If you make certain choices, Taash's loyalty mission ends up being about finding acceptance from the Qun as well, with a representative of the Qun honoring her they/them identity. I think of this as the writers' fantasy that one day, Christianity and traditional values start admitting that they had been wrong on rejecting pronoun ideology and they start being "happy" for people who explore their identity in unconventional and previously unthinkable ways.
Why people dislike Bellara? In the beginning of the game, she has a near-monopoly on the awful and unimmersive Marvel-style dialog. As an example, after fighting an ogre, she says "Wasn't expecting to fight an ogre today." This single line was one of the main reasons I decided to refund the game. BioWare, why should I take your plot seriously if your own characters don't? To make this awful dialog even worse, the ogre in Origins was one of the scariest enemies, designed so that the player feels like it can't be killed. But in The Veilguard, it looks cute and the characters don't take it seriously.
You mentioned that you dislike these weird jokes made by the Veilguard as the entire world is ending. In this regard, I think of Bellara as one of the most egregious offenders in the entire game.
I have heard that Bellara has been designed to represent an ADHD female who is innocently clumsy in social situations, saying weird things and embarrassing herself. Essentially, a self-insert character made so that certain people can see themselves in her.
I highly dislike the idea of any self-insertion characters in video games. All characters should be designed as a part of the game's world, lore, and atmosphere rather than serving as vessels for the self-insertions of real-world issues. I consider Bellara and Taash bad characters for this reason - though arguably, Bellara's character goes a bit deeper than just that.
In my opinion, a better version of Bellara is Merril from Dragon Age 2. A female elven mage, quirky and cute but with lots of moral ambiguity and shadiness, also studying her elven heritage but going to extreme lengths to do so. She also doesn't crack stupid jokes all the time and her loyalty quest is much more emotional and dark than that of Bellara's. She fits well into the game's dark fantasy world and she takes the plot very seriously.
I'm German too, but I played in English. I'm really thrilled to know what they have done with they/them in the German version. Couldn't find videos on YouTube sadly.
I tend to view this pronoun and they/them stuff as American cultural imperialism. They expect every language to follow suit, including languages that only know 2 genders. See this "Latinx" stuff.
I agree with almost all of your points, the game absolutely sucks and though I am impressed by its few good moments especially at the end of the game, I don't want to deny the disappointment in any way. Perhaps I was a bit generous giving it 5/10 as I was still touched by the ending.
Is it truly the worst BioWare game ever released? If we only consider the story, the dialog is atrocious, but I find myself at least liking the story of the ancient gods and having strong emotional investment in at least that part of the story. I can't say the same about Mass Effect: Andromeda, where I felt nothing at all. "Apathy is death"
The dialog got cringier in Veilguard compared to Andromeda, which is quite the accomplishment. However, the good moments in The Veilguard are better than the entire Andromeda story IMO.
I'd place The Veilguard as the second-worst BioWare story, with Andromeda taking the first place. At least The Veilguard made me tear up in the end.
To be fair though, Andromeda did butcher the Mass Effect universe, but not nearly as bad as The Veilguard did with Dragon Age's universe. If your standard is the fidelity to lore and the universe, then I understand your argument for placing The Veilguard as the #1 worst. The damage that this game has done to Tevinter is unforgivable - a society supposedly founded upon slavery and blood magic but we see next to nothing of that. A dark fantasy game where we're always the obnoxiously righteous wimp, an NPC protagonist that exists to validate the writers' self-insertion characters.
BioWare as we know it is completely dead. My standards are perhaps a bit higher than I'm letting on, as I gave Inquisition a 7/10 for its lack of RPG freedom and the rise of the cringe dialog that only got worse in Andromeda and The Veilguard.
I rated this game 5/10 because the game ended on a good note, but I really despise this game as it is. Now that a day has passed since I completed it, perhaps I'd give the game a 3/10.
Regarding the gameplay, I like the more action-oriented gameplay too. I was never into CRPG round-based combat, as it's just not immersive to me. But I have many issues with its implementation:
- Enemies are sponges. It's an awful implementation because it feels like you're stabbing tanks. Compare that to God of War or Elden Ring, and it falls short miserably.
- The dialog is so awful that it ruins my immersion during combat. I even felt more immersed during Origins' combat because at least the characters weren't saying BS while fighting these huge creatures.
You seem to like the art style. Don't you think that this art style is perhaps a symptom of a broader issue with the game's creative direction? Players have likened this game's tone and atmosphere to Disney - the characters are so cheerful, you see no racism, no evil, and all you have is this bland righteousness devoid of struggle or substance. It surely is no coincidence that the art style is reminiscent of Pixar. Have you noticed that the darkspawn, including the ogres, and even the dragons, look so cute?
I fully agree with you that Rook is trash. Rook is the writers' projection of an authority figure that THEY wish they had, the plot device that exists to support the self-insertion characters made by the writers such as Bellara and Taash. I posted more on that above, if you are interested.
Turns out, inquisition is actually much better than I remembered it. Many of the flaws of The Veilguard (such as lack of RPG freedom, less moral greyness, bad dialog, and a rather blandly righteous protagonist) can be found in Inquisition too, but to a much smaller extent.
I share your assessment of the point of no return, as it feels like they actually hired the talented writers as opposed to the rest of the game. To you, it was unimmersive because it feels disjointed from the rest of the story. To me, it was a saving grace, a breath of fresh air to relieve me of the PTSD from all the awful story & dialog I had experienced during the rest of the game.
Honestly, I am still proud of my decision to refund the game after 2 hours, and I don't plan on buying it, ever. The only way the games industry is going to change is if we all vote with our wallets.
And that's what we all did. The Veilguard is a huge flop and it should send a clear signal to EA that BioWare's leadership needs to be evaluated. BioWare exists in name only.
The next Mass Effect is cooked.
I am looking forward to EXODUS by Archetype Entertainment. Obviously, that's where BioWare's talent ended up going.
And good on you for mentioning Jade Empire. It's a fantastic game to play if you've had "Veilguard PTSD Sydrome". One of the best games in history.
I'm also planning to play BioWare's Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, then 3 by Larian Studios.
100% agree. I cannot begin to fathom the disappointment of more hardcore fans, as I've only played the 3 games before it and never read any of the novels. BioWare shot themselves in the foot.
My hypothesis is that the talent had left the company during the development of Andromeda, Anthem, and The Veilguard. The remaining writers and the leadership seemed to have a very different vision for the franchise. They listened to the wrong fans, and sought to mould the franchise to their own liking instead of honoring what had come before. It's not the same people that made Dragon Age great in the first place. I think they didn't like the gritty and dark tone of the originals, and they didn't want to depict slavery and blood magic because it's "offensive" to them.
They sought to twist the franchise to suit their own personal taste, alienating their fans in the process.
BioWare needs a massive change in leadership. I hope that this game's commercial failure serves as a wake-up call to EA and BioWare that change is needed.
My own wife is on the spectrum and she is nothing like that. On the spectrum or not, characters should be well written and fit into the story. This is not the case with Bellara.
The problem with Bellara is that she doesn't seem to take the plot all that seriously at all. The game focuses on her own personal journey to accepting the true nature of her elven gods, rather than her being terrified of the massive danger posed by the blighted gods. The world is literally ending, but we don't see that reflected on her. So many of her dialog lines pull me out of the immersion completely because she's busy making childish jokes rather than taking the plot seriously. And if it's true that BioWare has focused on creating a realistic representation of real-world concepts in dialog, including how people with autism behave in conversations, then perhaps that is indicative of bad priorities. Most Dragon Age fans agree that the priority should be a dark fantasy atmosphere and immersive dialog.
Compare her to Merrill from Dragon Age 2, who I think is on the spectrum. This is because Merrill admits to being not very good at social occasions, while seemingly having a pet subject. I like Merrill but not Bellara.
But that's because Dragon Age 2 is much better written than The Veilguard. It's a great game overall, with a similar writing quality to Origins (despite the rough edges from the 2-year development cycle).
Here is the thing, after modding the hell out of it i found andromeda actually to be playable and most stuff ,at least graphic wise, was definitly easily fixed with mods. it still not are really good ME game, but better as it was at release.
The problem with Veilguard is that its problems are so much deeper rooted that no amount of fan work can actually fix it. Even though some are already trying on some end (for example there is already a mod that makes the head normal size instead of comically large like they are now).
I find it interesting that you're so optimistic.
I assume that you've also looked into the EXODUS game by Archetype Entertainment? Full reveal coming soon.
Perhaps BioWare convinced EA to green-light an awful project on the pretence that it would be a success like Jedi: Fallen Order. Tons of mismanagement on EA's and BioWare's side.
Funny how that turned out. Perhaps BioWare would've had a bigger success creating a Dragon Age MMORPG instead. Preying on nostalgia is better than butchering the franchise.
One of the things that I think could have made this game ten times better is if they edited out a huge chunk of the dialogue. Not for political reasons, but because we're just never left to sit with a revelation.
At every point in the game they want to explain to us carefully like we're dumb what something that we just witnessed actually means. The perfect example is when you're placing the statues down at the Lighthouse and learning more about Solas and his past. I don't want a group meeting unpacking that, not only because I'd like to form my own opinions first, but also because what they say is really stupid, mainly that revelation about the Andrastean faith.
That scene made me thankful that this series is infamous for its retcons and I hope that's just dropped completely in future entries. I was happy it wasn't touched on further even though I was overall disappointed about the absence of the Imperial Chantry in Veilguard.
I just miss when games weren't treated like interactive movies. Part of the fun of games like DA was the community built around them through Reddit and Youtube videos where we'd piece together dialogue and environmental clues to form our own theories. The debates around Loghain's retreat at Ostagar, how justified Meredith was at Kirkwall, which Divine candidate could lead the Orlesian Chantry and southern Thedas into the best possible direction. These weren't easy questions to answer, and the games mainly let the player decide. Letting us come to our own conclusions is what this series was known for.
That's the part of the "choices matter" aspect that I enjoy. I don't care what becomes cannon as long as it makes sense and serves the greater purpose of the narrative. Veilguard seems like it doesn't want to be an Inquisition sequel though.
I think trying to make everyone's choices matter is a fool's errand and sets you up for failure, which is clearly what happened here. There's always going to be that person that makes extremely niche choices and then gets so upset that it's not reflected in the story that they don't want to play the next game. The vast majority of us are simply looking for a good story though.
I don't play a female Elf Inquisitor that romanced Solas, but if that's cannon, and clearly that's what they spent the most time on, then I want to see her included in the story. I want to pick her brain about Solas, and that could have been a good way to keep him and the events of Inquisition integrated into the story, but they hide from all of that until the very end of the game.
As for companions, Taash and Bellara seem to be the most polarizing, but I also viewed them as the most promising and therefore the biggest disappointments I had while playing.
Taash's story is set up brilliantly and is the most faithful to the lore, and then it's bulldozed by painful self-insert writing and clunky contemporary dialogue. Shathaan flees with Taash to Rivain because Taash would become a slave in the Antaam as all mages and firebreathers are. I see a lot of anti-woke people using that Sten clip as a gotcha for this game, but it's actually mentioned in this game if your Rook is also Qunari, as he says women are not warriors in the Antaam, and indeed they're not, firebreathers and mages are considered weapons, not people or warriors. It's understandable why Shathaan would take Taash even though she doesn't seem to like Rivain that much.
Ever since Origins we have known that Rivain and Par Vollen are polar opposites. Par Vollen is all about collectivism, service to the Qun, and it's a society obsessed with roles and optimization. While not as obsessed with roles, much of Thedas still exists under some form of aristocracy, but Rivain is highly individualistic and liberal. The Chantry has no control over Rivain, and the royal family has limited political power. It's even stated that its a matriarchal society. That is such a culture clash for Qunari that have left the Qun. That's the perfect setup to tell a nonbinary story, because whatever you think of it personally, it's a highly individualistic choice.
I would have much preferred Taash's story to be told through the lens of in-game world, not of our own world. I don't want contemporary terms stuffed into the dialogue because it breaks immersion. If they must, in a Q/A they could have confirmed for the densest among us that Taash is non-binary. They then get so focused on hammering it home that Taash is non-binary and has very stereotypical non-binary experiences that they lose the broader plot until we have to abruptly make a choice for Taash about if they should embrace Qunari culture or Rivain's culture and it's like dude...I just met you a few weeks ago.
It's frustrating that an intriguing multicultural storyline like that got trampled because the writers wanted to say, "LOOK AT THIS NONBINARY CHARACTER." It's just not realistic or relatable, and that paired with some of the more painful scenes of the writer preaching just ends up just being alienating. This is why it's so important to tailor your writing to the world, not the other way around.
As for Bellara, I was most excited for her story. She reminded me the most of Leliana in Origins. Playful and almost saccharine, but where Leliana's story takes a deeper turn to be about her struggle with her dark passenger and her journey to redemption through her unwavering belief in the Maker, Bellara just has a bad brother? It would have been so interesting if this was the character that had a complex past and had some sort of hardening mechanic.
I also came away with Neve being my favorite, mainly because her companion questline is the closest we get to the political intrigue of the previous games that is absent from Veilguard's larger story. I'm also just a sucker for the hardboiled detective trope.
Everyone says Act 3, t hat is the big finale, is impactful and the best part of the game. That's because the game sticks to you, a hero, your friends, battling overwhelming odds throughout. Adding in strange, non-canon mutations of Rook going genocidal and for some reason joining the Evanuris or Venatori would have just been a mess.
Rook is a hero, their backstory is heroic no matter which faction you choose, indicating a willingness to sacrifice themselves and/or their prestige for the greater good. They are recruited by and friends of Varric and Harding. Why would Varric and Harding befriend and work with an evil person?
It just wouldn't have worked for what this game is and I think would have siphoned even more resources away on an already tortured development.