I think Veilguard is nice, but it was just a very expensive Dragon Age Origins trailer

[Gladwell]

They really should have just named this game "The Veilguard" and keep it out of the Dragon Age lore entirely. Why call it Dragon Age? The Lore didn't fit what they wanted to do at all XD

[Boltergeist]

Literally any supposed lore break is hinted back as far as DAO

[Fitness Lauch]

They should've just gone with an eary access like BG3 which would've allowed them to collect feedback from the community and change the game accordingly.

What really hurt the sales are the dialogues (I'm playing on german language and the pronouns used here are something else, it's immersion breaking and I guess it's similar in other languages) and that the beginning of the game isn't good. It gets much better in act 2 and 3 but many people will quit before they reach this point.

If act 1 would be as good as act 3 and with better dialogues I'd rate the game as 10/10 to be honest. This way I'd give it 7-8/10 because I still feel like it's a good game and you realise that the devs did put a lot of effort into it but the start really feels tedious.

Also pre release footage from Taash talking about nonbinary stuff was a marketing disaster that would've been easily avoidable. This doesn't belong to a medieval dark fantasy world and is about as immersion breaking as if Solas would trade bitcoins with Varric.

Also make mementos, cosmetics and that stuff account wide please.

[Baron]

Agreed. Inclusivity isn't a bad thing, but in their attempt to market to a wider audience they broke immersion. Like if a car salesman, instead of telling you about a car's good features, decided that their main pitch should be that its paint color can come in rainbow.

Act 2 in the game felt good, but getting there was buggy and frustrating.

[76561199802160085]

Originally posted by Gladwell:

They really should have just named this game "The Veilguard" and keep it out of the Dragon Age lore entirely. Why call it Dragon Age? The Lore didn't fit what they wanted to do at all XD

Either you never played the game, either failed understand the story and writing, either you are a boredom troll.

DA lore isn't DAO, it evolved in DA2 (brutal revolution in south related to mages), in DAI (still absorbing the revoltion), and DAV not only deeply change the context from south to north but is centered around lore knowledge deeply changed, a ton of lore is learned in DAV and it's the deepest DA for lore aspect, totally major game for DA lore.

[bunny de fluff]

Jaguar?

[Fitness Lauch]

Originally posted by Baron:

Agreed. Inclusivity isn't a bad thing, but in their attempt to market to a wider audience they broke immersion. Like if a car salesman, instead of telling you about a car's good features, decided that their main pitch should be that its paint color can come in rainbow.

Act 2 in the game felt good, but getting there was buggy and frustrating.

The sad thing is that Bioware even managed to do inclusivity well. Dorian is a fantastic character for example. And a lot of characters are written well in Veilguard as well.

Originally posted by bayomaycry:

i really feel like people who make the '' inclusivity '' arguments have not played DA, or like, any bioware RPG.

Inclusivity is good when the story works without it. Nobody cares that Emmrich has a romance with Strife later on because the story would work without it just fine. Nobody cares about Astarion dating men because it's not the point of the story (granted, I've seen in the BG3 forum a thread where someone complained about a "lesbian angle" but that's really only a loud minority).
Meanwhile the Taash dialogues would fall apart if she wouldn't be nonbinary. That's why people dislike her story and why her story causes so many eyeroll moments. And it's just a complete PR disaster, take away the pre release nonbinary footages on youtube and the game would've selled much better already.

[DaisyRay]

There is actually a lot of lore in this game. I have seen it from my own playthrough and others since the streamer I've been watching reads every single piece of codex. It's not as much as many would have wished, but to pretend there is no lore is just silly. :)

[Stevcorp]

Bioware Exec: Any ideas what we should do for this game?

Scriptwriter: No. But I have an interesting idea for an entirely new game.....

Bioware Exec: Good enough. Change the characters to fit Dragon Age and have it on my desk tomorrow.

[Nightshade878]

Originally posted by AsianGirlLover:

If BioWare’s goal was to get as many people as possible to ignore this game and dust off their old copies of Origins, then… mission accomplished.

Lol, 1500 people playing Origins, 16000 people playing Veilguard. Try again.

[Segovax]

Originally posted by AsianGirlLover:

Originally posted by Baron:

Agreed. Inclusivity isn't a bad thing, but in their attempt to market to a wider audience they broke immersion. Like if a car salesman, instead of telling you about a car's good features, decided that their main pitch should be that its paint color can come in rainbow.

I think a more accurate analogy would be if the salesman forced his ideological beliefs on you and told you you can only drive the car on his terms.

Car salesmen forcing their ideology on potential buyers in a ride along:

SALESMAN: "So, um, I'm glad you like the car but you need to slow down.."

CUSTOMER: "ILL DRIVE HOW I WANT"

SALESMAN: "... look, that's great and all, but OH MY GOD OH MY GOD BUS ITS A BUS"

CUSTOMER: "STOP SHOUTING AT ME YOU SNOWFLAKE AAAAARGH" <stomps on the accelerator and hits 120 in a 25>

SALESMAN: <grabbing the wheel and screaming> WHY ARE YOU DRIVING US ONTO THE TRAIN TRACKS THATS A FREIGHT TRAIN

CUSTOMER: STOP FORCING YOUR IDEOLOGY ON ME <swerves off the tracks and onto a playground, children scatter and scream in terror> I CAN DRIVE WHERE I WANT! <screaming out the window, flipping people off>


Hours later...

JUDGE: So you're telling me it's your ideology to have no consideration or respect for others, and that's why it's okay for you to drive where and how you want, in a car you haven't bought?

CUSTOMER: DONT JUDGE ME BY MY ACTIONS JUDGE ME BY WHAT I TELL YOU I MEAN

JUDGE: Yeah okay.

[Raz]

Originally posted by bayomaycry:

i really feel like people who make the '' inclusivity '' arguments have not played DA, or like, any bioware RPG.

No, what is really going on is that they aren't articulating their perspective well enough which is common with people in general. The issue is that they weren't beaten over the head with a baseball bat, being lectured to accept inclusivity, and instead, was given inclusivity as naturally as one would breathe, or walk around outside and interact with their fellow humans, therefore color, race, sex, creed didn't matter until talking to the individually directly which usually comes down to disliking the individual, not the things outlined above (truly bigoted people aside, obviously).

Its why Baldur's Gate 3, Cyberpunk 2077, the initial trilogy of Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen, Hades, any GTA game, on, and on, and on are perfectly fine, loved by many. They didn't spend hours lecturing/brow beating the player with inclusivity, or (in the case of GTA) cracked jokes about it but since everyone got the smoke no one was bothered by it.

Write the characters better, don't lecture (note; doesn't mean not to talk about the situation, and grow/learn from it, just don't frigging lecture. Dorian didn't lecture us about being gay, he explained why he had a falling out with his father, and it only came up because his father physically showed up. Until then, he is perfectly happy to flirt and lead on a female Inquisitor until the homosexuality physically comes up, and even then, you can still flirt with him because that's just who Dorian is).

[Stevcorp]

A more accurate analogy is that a person goes to a car yard to buy a white car and gets angry because the car yard has cars in too many colours that aren't white. They came here to see white cars, not other colours. The other colours offend them.

They also get angry because the car yard has motorcycles. After all, since the person doesn't want a motorcycle, why should any car yard anywhere stock them for anybody? It's ridiculous to stock something they personally don't want.

And when the car yard owner tells them to leave, the person is confident that the car yard will soon go out of business. Because hey, it's not like they have any other customers who are willing to buy their non-white cars. White car drivers are clearly the overwhelming majority and will be forever.

Then every year, they wonder why there's so many non-white cars and motorcycles being driven around the place. Something has gone wrong. And clearly, the fault lies in the car yard owners for having forced their non-white colours on everyone.

[lefty1117]

Originally posted by Cassidy0z:

Originally posted by bayomaycry:

if you say so.

We do. The average person understands that diversity is the same as gravity. And inclusion will always be about freedom of preference being that I don't get to walk into just any club I want to and that's ok.

It's always there and a natural occurrence in society. It doesn't need to be forced and the more you let it take it's natural course the more you will find that society will progress naturally.

Force it and they will respond in force.

You're making a strange argument. The point of Taash's story is the struggle with self identity. This is not a unique concept. In other settings it might be Aragorn being conflicted about being Isildur's heir, or Luke Skywalker wrestling with being the son of the worst villain in the galaxy. These are identity stories and they are fundamental to the character. What you're really saying is you don't like a non-binary identity story. You're OK with people being non-binary or whatever other different thing they are, as long as you don't have to deal with it or interact with it.

That's your choice but at least be honest about it.

[phadin]

Originally posted by Gladwell:

They really should have just named this game "The Veilguard" and keep it out of the Dragon Age lore entirely. Why call it Dragon Age? The Lore didn't fit what they wanted to do at all XD

As someone who picked the Daelish Elf Origin back in DA:O, I have to heavily disagree with you here. I have been anticipating many of these reveals for some time and wanting to see what the true nature of a lot of things were. This game has satisfied many of my questions and met a lot of my expectations on where the lore was going to go, particularly after the reveals given at the end of Inquisition, but then it went so much further. I'm quite happy with the lore development in this game.

[lefty1117]

Originally posted by Cassidy0z:

Originally posted by lefty1117:

You're making a strange argument. The point of Taash's story is the struggle with self identity. This is not a unique concept. In other settings it might be Aragorn being conflicted about being Isildur's heir, or Luke Skywalker wrestling with being the son of the worst villain in the galaxy. These are identity stories and they are fundamental to the character. What you're really saying is you don't like a non-binary identity story. You're OK with people being non-binary or whatever other different thing they are, as long as you don't have to deal with it or interact with it.

That's your choice but at least be honest about it.

Not a strange argument at all. I know about struggle all too well as most people do. Taash's story is that of a young brat who for some reason made identity the forefront of her entire life or rather is a self insert character who decided based on modern times all of her struggles and self doubt was all about identity.

Aragorn struggle is completely different as a man trying to fill the shoes of someone greater, or Skywalker wrestling with the fact his father saw the struggle within the universe from a different perspective. These are not identity struggles they are struggles with aspects of their lives on their journey to reach their potential or find the path they want in life. These things do not define them they are simply aspects of who they are and who they are becoming.

The idea that you don't seem to recognize the superficial thing that identity is over something that actually has weight and merit to it. Identity is a superficial non-important thing that has no more weight than the cover of a book as a determining factor to decide everything that it contains.

Identity is an insult to peoples actual lived experiences that made them who they are.

You're basically completely wrong