New Player With a Few Questions

[legion11]

Hey all,

Yesterday was my first time playing Runersia, but I'm a long time enthusiast of these types of games - Forsena, Gemfire, Dark Wizard, Dragon Force, among many others being some of my past favorites. I really like what I've seen so far from this game, but I was wondering about a few things:

1A. Mana Miracles - how common are they? Is it worth save-scumming for? I started with 1 already in place on my ruler and managed to summon 2 more in my first few seasons with very aggressive summoning. It happened on an Imp (or Gremlin maybe, whichever is the starting class) and a Centaur and now I'm thinking I want to let them hang out in a back-row castle doing training XP until they hit level 10/get promoted rather than expose them to the danger of the front line.

1B. Is the massive stat boost of a Mana-Miracle baby only apply at creation, or do they progress much better than a typical specimen of that type? Like if a normal Centaur gets 2-3 points of Strength per level, will the special one get 4-6? It's obvious how much better these guys are at level 1, but if their level-ups are similar or only slightly better than others of their species, I would think by level 10 or 15+ it would smooth out and they won't stand out from the pack quite as much? I hope I'm wrong on that and they get beastly level ups their whole career.

2. How important is class/job jumping for the Rune Knights? If I understand it correctly, everytime I get to Proficiency 5 I should jump ship to a new class to learn more skills/spells? The min-maxer in me wants to do this right to make optimal Knights, but the RPer in me cringes at the thought of turning a big toughguy like Ginny into a Dancer to get more AGI, or morphing a shy bookworm like Pluto into a Berserker for some reason. I look at their portraits and see them in the cut-scenes and form an idea about who they are and don't want to change it too much. Am I doing myself a terrible disservice by staying in the same career path and only advancing upwards - say from thief to ranger, etc. instead of doing bizarre multi-classes like Viking->Sorcerer or whatever?

3. Does the "control radius" (I'm not sure what the proper term is) ever improve as a Rune Knight levels up? I tend to use the 5 and 4 hex Knights because I remember from the first game just how poorly a monster performs if they get stuck outside that bubble. I feel like I'm condemning the 3-hex Knights to a career of sitting in the castles doing training or questing. For example, there's this peculiar little robot named Umami or something (yeah I know that's not right but I don't have the game open right now) and I'm intrigued by him but he's a 3-hex dude and that almost feels like a deal-breaker for me. Can he go up to 4 hexes with level-ups or even with the help of an item maybe?

Thanks!

[manimani]

1.
Miracle monsters have bonuses to their initial abilities. Among these, "DEF" is a big advantage since it cannot be raised by level up or items. The growth rate is the same as that of normal monsters.

The rate of miracles depends on the summoning cost.
~30 cost: 10%.
35~60 cost: 5%.
65 cost and above: 1%.
It is not easy to draw a miracle monster above 65 cost. Please consult with your time whether to repeat save/load for miracle or not.

2.
If you let them master multiple professions, they will learn more skills and magic, but they will spend more time in lower classes and their growth rate will be lower.
Having a healer learn attack magic can be useful, and the combination of an archer with a sheaf/dancer re-move is powerful. However, they are not absolutely necessary to conquer the game.
Also, mixing physical and magic classes is difficult due to the stats required to change jobs. Even if it is possible, they are not very strong. In most cases, either "HP/Attack" or "MP/Int" will be insufficient.


3.
The "control radius" can only be extended by equipments or items.

Lastly, I would like to say that this game is not that long per round, so I would recommend you to play it without being too particular about it first.

[legion11]

Thanks, that is some great information!

1. I managed to summon a miracle angel on my first try last night after taking a new castle. I figured I must've been very lucky and hit Save right away.

2. No idea what a "sheaf/dancer re-move" is but I'll look into it.

3. I feared as much, but glad to hear it confirmed.

Did you find it difficult to capture enemy monsters? I was in a fight with an opponent that had a level 10 upgraded "miracle" demon. I wanted to steal her so bad but I just couldn't get in position to drop a charm on her before the enemy general fled. I re-loaded the fight from a round before (I tend to save a few times during each combat, just an old habit I've never gotten out of) and managed to get her down to 30hp as I killed her Rune Knight. I read somewhere that the chances of a monster capture increase with various factors - forcing their general out of the fight, injuring the monster to low health, applying various status effects, etc. It seems Charm is the #1 option, but I was 1 hex too far away and the fight wasn't going to carry to another round so I had to end it.

I'm loving this game so far. It's not perfect, but it's scratching the itch like nothing else has since Dragon Force.

[Makan Sate]

To capture the enemy monster, charm should help the chance of capturing and kill the rune knight who commands it. I only tried it twice or thrice I guess, can't really say about the odds as I never paid really attention about capturing enemy monsters. Lowering their hp doesn't seem to have any effect IMO. It's all about luck and doesn't seem to be worth the effort at all. Mana miracle monster might be better but there is no reason to pick 'em over high leveled monsters unless you doing a min-maxing game...

[Latency]

I'm glad you are enjoying the game! Here is a link to a very useful google doc with lots of information and links to other helpful resources:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1phCX__6IuomaEnioApz_db_ZNaA7xwPazKwJoHDqhIY/edit#gid=0

It will contain some spoilers about quests and how the game works so you may want to play through once on your own and check it out afterwards, but many of the pages are just statistical information about all the items/monsters/knights, damage formulas, stat gains, etc.

For mana miracles I generally don't waste time save scumming until I can summon at least 10 monsters at a time and just do a batch of 10 and reload if none spawn. It's absolutely not necessary to win the game, but with low cost monsters especially the mana miracle bonus is a huge improvement. Each force starts with 1 level 10 mana miracle and capturing them can be great, but don't worry too much if you have to kill them instead.

[legion11]

Originally posted by Latency:

I'm glad you are enjoying the game! Here is a link to a very useful google doc with lots of information and links to other helpful resources:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1phCX__6IuomaEnioApz_db_ZNaA7xwPazKwJoHDqhIY/edit#gid=0

Wow that is a lot to absorb, so much good knowledge in that document...

I have some follow-up questions on questing:
1. How do you get "4 arrows" for an outlook on a quest? Example: I had a monk hanging around in a castle with a mountain questing area available. That is his favored terrain so he had 2 arrows. Instead of questing I summoned some monsters and did field training for xp several seasons in a row until he hit level 10. After promoting from Monk->Grappler he got a 3rd arrow. To get the 4th do I have to bring him up to 20 and make him a Champion?

2. Is a 4/4 arrow outlook the only way to get the special monster promotion items? I have several monsters at, near, or above level 20 that require items to switch classes - a Revenant, a High Lizard, 2 or 3 Sea Serpents, a Hellhound and a Maneater that are close, etc. The only Tier 3 monsters in my army are a Titan and a Bahamut and only because I captured both of them away from the enemy. I found a post that shows the location types for each promotion item, but I have yet to find any of them despite lots of questing in the 2-3 arrow outlook range (mostly 3).

[Latency]

1. Yes, level 20 will give you the highest rating for doing quests in a favored location.

2. No, the higher rating just increases your chances to get the best items. You can still get everything with a tier 2 rune knight, the chances are just lower.

If you'd like to see where to get specific items/weapons/armor use this sheet as a reference:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-ojnRrMzmB8nOwwwdnr7kO3VLncc-Ku953ll4GUvKW8/edit#gid=751879372

Also a few things to know at the end of your playthrough (spoiler text):

When you defeat the final enemy force your time limit is removed and new bonus battles will appear in addition to the final story battle. You can quest as long as you want to get lots of items, and you should because when starting a new game you can carry over a certain number of each item if you load an endgame save to make additional playthroughs more fun.

[legion11]

Originally posted by Latency:

1. Yes, level 20 will give you the highest rating for doing quests in a favored location.

2. No, the higher rating just increases your chances to get the best items. You can still get everything with a tier 2 rune knight, the chances are just lower.

If you'd like to see where to get specific items/weapons/armor use this sheet as a reference:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-ojnRrMzmB8nOwwwdnr7kO3VLncc-Ku953ll4GUvKW8/edit#gid=751879372

Also a few things to know at the end of your playthrough (spoiler text):

When you defeat the final enemy force your time limit is removed and new bonus battles will appear in addition to the final story battle. You can quest as long as you want to get lots of items, and you should because when starting a new game you can carry over a certain number of each item if you load an endgame save to make additional playthroughs more fun.

That Excel sheet with all the items in each location is ABSOLUTELY what I needed in my life. I was going to get a few characters to max level and just start questing blind, but this certainly helps.

However...

I loaded up the game today and only had a short time to play so I did a little experiment. Took a level 30 Viking (Adieu) who happened to be hanging around Shlayne Strait (a favored zone) and did a bunch of Quests on him while skipping through all the Attack phases. It made a mess of things, as the AI ran rampant around some of my undefended areas, but I wasn't going to keep this file. After 12 quest cycles he failed to get any consumable items (Power Elixir/Pill/Potion) and neither did he get the Serpentine Gem to upgrade Sea Serp to Hydra. I got the same fang item like 7 times, a few helmets, and I forget what else, but nothing impressive. He did recruit 4 new Rune Knights to my team, so there is that, but the loot haul wasn't just depressing, it was atrocious.

I read your spoiler tag and assumed it would work like that based on how most of these games go. So if my primary goal is to farm elixirs and things to upgrade lizards, dragons, mandrakes, etc. should I hold off until later? Was my RNG bad or too small a sample size to determine? Maybe things will be better once I have several level 30 knights questing at >>>> locations? Or will it improve still further after I've united the continent?

[Latency]

It's difficult to say since there aren't a lot of people gathering data for definitive percentages or anything like that. Generally I save scum for a couple "Excellent!" results each month and just take what I get unless I'm looking for a specific item. At the end of your first playthrough you can farm up to the maximums for each item that carries over and it's not an issue in subsequent playthroughs since you start with so many items anyway. For reference carryover item maximums are:

Power/Wisdom/Speed/Life/Magic/Mana potion - 15 each
Power/Wisdom/Speed/Life/Magic/Mana pill - 10 each
Elixir of Power/Wisdom/Speed/Life/Magic/Mana - 5 each
Elixir of Influence - 5
Warrior's/Wizard's/Acrobat's/Chaotic drug - 5 each
Rebirth Elixir - 3
Panacea - 3
Enlightenment scroll - 10
Champion Medal/Eternal Hellfire/Infernal Eyeball/Serpentine Gem - 2 each
Missing Link - 2
Revival Stone - 5

With all this you can just focus on weapons/armor/accessories in your subsequent playthroughs as you really don't need more than 2 each of the special item classes, and if you want you can start two of them at level 1 (for the best stat growths) with a Missing Link + upgrade item. Obviously I'd recommend a mana miracle monster for this, but the special monster classes are already quite strong even without the stat bonus.

[legion11]

Thank you, that is massively helpful. Are those item carry-overs only if you start up some kind of New Game+ difficulty mode, or is it any secondary playthrough of any difficulty? I have a custom difficulty tuned in to my perfect blend of challenge/enjoyment and I'd like to do a 2nd nation on the exact same settings once I finish this first, experimental run.

I had one particular fight well in hand and my Treasure Hunter's turn was up so I tried the skill where he plunders the battlefield for a random item. I figrued "why not?" since I was in mop-up/xp farming mode anyway. He ended up pulling a Missing Link off the ground, I felt that must've been fantastically lucky! I wasn't sure how these work but it sounds like from your post I would combine that with a Medal/Hellfire/etc. to warp a fresh level 1 lizard/dragon/etc up to Lord/Ancient and then get 29 levels of the best stat progressions. Yeah, obviously I would save scum for a mana miracle in that instance, if I'm burning such precious resources to make the ultimate monster. It's too bad I can only do that with 2 out of 8 monsters, but what a great way to get a new country started!

[Latency]

Once you have a clear game save data, you can choose it from "Load Game" on the starting menu screen. It will list how many carryover items you have and then let you select either Main mode or Creative mode as if you are starting a new game (you cannot carry over items in Challenge mode). You can still pick any country (regardless of who you completed the game with) and adjust the custom difficulty settings as you see fit. I strongly suggest putting this complete game save at the very bottom of the save menu (slot 40) as you can overwrite it just like any other save and you definitely don't want to waste all that work. You can reuse the save every time you start a new game to keep all those items you farmed.

Missing Links are indeed quite hard to get; you can only get them (very rarely) from the same quest locations that give monster upgrade items or from Treasure Hunt as you discovered...thankfully you only need to have 2 in a completed game save.

Finally, a word of advice if you decide to max out all the carryover items - I suggest getting all your knights together and questing in the same location until you get what you need, then moving along one location at a time. Even if they aren't favored locations you still need quite a few of the lower level stat boosters (15 each of potions and 10 each of pills) so your quests won't be wasted. In fact the last items I needed to complete my list were Life and Mana pills; when I finally got 10/10 I already had more than 25 of each of the respective Elixir because I kept getting Excellent results when I needed Great.

[legion11]

Great advice again, I will definitely farm for that perfect save file, knowing I can use it again and again at any new campaign start. Also I agree with you on the questing strategy - gather everyone up and utterly exhaust one spot and then move on en masse to do it again, like some kind of locust plague.

[legion11]

Two more questions and I think that will pretty much do it:

1. I've seen a lot of advice about selecting the White or "Holy" versions of elementals and dragons. My guess is that the big bad of the next phase will have Dark element so I want white to do extra damage?

2. I'm just starting to wrap my head around multi-classing Rune Knights. I'm playing this initial run straight-up - everyone just advances in their given class since I want to try a bunch and have no strong preferences yet. But I definitely want to play around with this more on my next nation. I have some initial ideas on what I want to blend, but I was just wondering if anyone reading this has any specific, particular combos they really enjoyed.

[Latency]

1. White and black are technically the strongest elements because of how the formula for combat works. They have no weaknesses like red/green/blue do so you always get more damage if you have more orbs. Also several of the most damaging knights in the game are white elemental (Rudo, Sin, etc) so if you stack black elemental you will take a ton of damage from them and probably lose a knight or monster in one hit. Lastly, everything in the final "hidden" boss fight after finishing all the bonus quests in post-game is black elemental, so stacking white elemental lets you do ridiculous amounts of damage and defeat it quite easily.

All that said, you will do a LOT more damage if you exploit weaknesses in combat (red attacking green for example), so as long as you are managing your monsters and knights correctly (equipment, spells, etc) going for only white elemental units isn't a big deal; just pay attention to what you are fighting. Don't take red elemental stuff when you invade Mirelva, or blue elemental stuff to invade the Shinobi tribe.

2. I actually made a post on this previously, I'll just copy/paste here:

I generally like to use lower-level characters and build them up during the game so I usually multiclass all my "fighting" Rune Knights. If you like using characters that start over level 15 it's probably not necessary to multiclass since they'd lose more stats than the extra utility would be worth. As long as a character starts at level 15 or below you can still end up with a fully multiclassed character, but the higher they start the more "sub-optimal" levels you will have due to being a low tier class to gain mastery levels and promote.

For all male physical classes I always multiclass into the Thief tree for 2 reasons. First, Double movement which you get from mastering the 2nd tier is a phenomenal skill for anyone since it lets you reposition after using a no-movement ability (or magic), or move back out to let someone else attack after moving in for a normal melee attack. Second, the Thief tree is excellent at quests almost everywhere so I just switch classes when not fighting and send them on quests. For all male physical Knights Thief is the secondary tree, master it first then switch to the "main" class until the next tier. Main class can be whatever you want, they all have advantages and disadvantages which cover a wide range of personal preferences. For example Viking is the only pure Red elemental Knight class in the game (aside from Eliza).

Male caster classes really only have one choice and that is to multiclass between Mage and Priest and there's really no reason not to. The "main" class you choose will depend on what weapons you find (since both classes use the same armor) and how resilient you want the character to be. Ending as a Wizard will give you slightly more INT and 50 more MP for stronger spells but ending in Cardinal will give you 100 more HP and 30 more defense if you use a Magma Rod (you should if you have one) which is very significant. Unfortunately male caster classes just aren't as good as female casters in general.

For female physical classes I always multiclass into the Dancer tree for the same reason (Double movement at tier 2 master), but the Dancer tree is actually very good as a main class as well. If you do main Dancer either Hunter or Lancer trees are fine as secondaries, though the Accuracy bonus from Hunter really isn't helpful while the Counter Damage Up from Lancer is quite good since your evasion will be high. Aside from that either Hunter or Lancer are fine as main classes with Dancer as the secondary depending on if you need ranged damage or a tank. Royal Guard is also the only pure blue elemental Knight class in the game (aside from Rubino).

For female casters I always main the Bard tree and secondary either Cleric or Enchantress (usually Enchantress). The Celestial Lute weapon is just amazing as it gives 10 INT, 30MP and Double Movement all by itself, plus 3 green element orbs which helps with your lightning spells to boot. You can also go full green elemental as Bard if you choose (9 green orbs on both offense and defense), but the stats for doing so aren't the greatest (though you do get an extra 20% evasion). Forest movement is also a very nice bonus, and the ability to always do something after moving with songs is great. Maining Enchantress for damage is also an option, but you are very fragile and have to split elements between blue and black which gimps your thunder spells. I would not suggest maining Cleric since you lose both Black and Green as weapon options and the bonus defense isn't worth it when you can just stack evade as a Bard instead and keep your extra damage.

[legion11]

Great info. I'm thinking I might do a Shinobi run next, as I really like the female classes and their story seems pretty cool too. I love the lone Sniper I have in my Minerva run, so I can see making several Dancer->Snipers for Shinobi. I also agree with your assessment of the Bard - I really like the idea of being able to do something, anything on a turn where I'm mainly repositioning. I'll have to look into it a bit more but for now I'll take your word that the Enchantress->Bard is a winner.

Have you ever tried triple-classing? I don't have anything specific in mind for M or F, I'd have to really scour the class lists to see if dedicating another 5 or 10 levels to something else would be worth it, but I'm intrigued by the idea. If the downside is lower stat progression, can't that be fixed by consumable pills/potions/elixirs? Shouldn't the goal be to get the absolute best passives and spells that can be mastered with proficiency and then fix up low stats after? I'm talking about going for an obnoxiously perfect min/max run where I only use mana-miracle monsters, farm out locations for the best items (with time limit turned off, of course) and so on. Probably way overkill, but I'd like to do that on my final run of the game as a sort of "masterpiece" finale.

[Latency]

Enchantress->Bard is purely for Meteor Doom and Curse in addition to Geno-thunder and the excellent songs bard has. Frost is nice early on to finish enemies for low MP cost (and funnel xp to your Knight), but Geno-frost is rarely worth the mana cost since your damage on it will be low as Bard. Cleric->Bard is also good but you will have trouble getting any kills to level up if Thunder isn't effective against your targets.

As for triple-classing I personally don't really see much point. The tier 1 and 2 class abilities/spells (besides double movement) just aren't worth wasting levels on for what you get in my opinion. Also if you want to triple class (and still get 2 tier 3 classes) it will take at least one Enlightenment Scroll and potentially 5 more for each additional set of carryover skills/spells you want.

For reference carryover abilities/spells upon mastery are as follows:

Male:
Fighter: 3% HP recovery each turn (ability)
Knight: Heal (spell), cannot become Swordsman
Paladin: Divine Ray (spell), cannot become Dark Knight
Dark Knight: Curse (spell), cannot become Paladin
Swordsman: 5% critical rate increase (ability), cannot become Knight
Master Swordsman: 15% critical rate increase (ability, replaces 5% increase)

Barbarian: 5% counterattack damage boost (ability)
Berserker: 10% counterattack damage boost (ability, replaces 5% boost)
Viking: 20% counterattack damage boost (ability, replaces 10% boost)

Thief: 5% evasion boost (ability)
Ranger: Flight (spell), Charm (spell), Double movement (ability)
Treasure Hunter: Gravity (spell), Dimension (spell), 20% evasion boost (ability, replaces 5% boost

Monk: 5% accuracy boost (ability)
Grappler: 10% accuracy boost (ability, replaces 5% boost)
Champion: 20% accuracy boost (ability, replaces 10% boost)

Mage: Flame, Power, Accel (spells)
Sorcerer: Weakness, Magic down, Geno-flame, Venom (spells)
Wizard: Solid, Exa-Blast, Curse (spells)

Priest: Heal, Cure (spells)
Bishop: Loop Heal, Holy Word (spells)
Cardinal: Area Heal, Veil (spells)

Female:
Lancer: 5% counterattack damage boost (ability)
Temple Knight: Resist (spell), Spell break (spell), 10% counterattack damage boost (ability, replaces 5% boost)
Royal Guard: Fall berg (spell), 20% counterattack damage boost (ability, replaces 10% boost)

Hunter: 5% accuracy boost (ability)
Archer: 10% accuracy boost (ability, replaces 5% boost)
Sniper: 20% accuracy boost (ability, replaces 10% boost)

Dancer: Venom (spell), 5% evasion boost (ability)
Rogue: Gravity (spell), Double movement (ability)
Assassin: Dimension (spell), 20% evasion boost (ability, replaces 5% boost)

Bard: Protect, Silent (spells)
Minstrel: Thunder (spell)
Troubadour: Geno-thunder, Mana transfer (spells)

Enchantress: Frost, Charm, Flight (spells)
Sorceress: Geno-frost (spell)
Witch: Meteor Doom, Curse (spells)

Cleric: Heal, Cure, Halo (spells)
Healer: Area heal, Divine ray (spells)
Saint: Area cure, Veil (spells)

The weakest Tier 3 carryover is probably from Saint since Area cure is very rarely needed and Veil is usually unnecessary, so Cleric/Bards could theoretically stop at Healer mastery and pick up 5 levels in Dancer for some evasion and Venom before finishing in the Bard tree. Besides that I personally can't justify what you lose from a tier 3 carryover bonus for some lower tier bonuses as they are just not significant enough to matter. Also don't forget that tier 3 classes inherently have the best base stats (not to mention level up bonuses), so "finishing" at a tier 2 or 1 class is not a good idea.

If you have a low level Bard/Enchantress and are willing to spend an Enlightenment scroll, 5 levels in Cleric may be worth it since Heal, Cure, and Halo are all excellent spells to have. I find Halo to be one of the most underrated spells in the game as not only does it give a 50%xp bonus it guarantees the target's next physical attack will hit (all with a range of 4 hexes!). Great for low accuracy moves from melee knights, or when attacking enemies in their favored terrain (looking at you Mr. Toby-in-a-forest).