Multi-classing, your opinion

[Fennel]

What is you guys' opinion on multi-classing, I feel like it offers so little benefits for most units (i.e having 10% more counter damage, or dealing 10% more damage to fliers, with the exception being Double Movement from Rogue) while also making them harder to use because of the lowered stats and lesser skills, is there any character that has heavily benefitted from multi-classing in your games?
I personally went over all of my characters on my current playthrough (Mirelva Islands) to figure out who I wanted to multi-class, with the end decision being absolutely no-one.

[Fennel]

CaoLex eredeti hozzászólása:

Wizurd_Merlin eredeti hozzászólása:

A full leveled single class hero will almost always be stronger then multi leveled hero. A multi leveled hero might be more useful in theory but in practice a fully leveled single character will hit a lot harder.

No, despite single-class character having a bit stronger base stats due to the amount of time it's grew as a tier 3 class, it is considerable weaker than multi-class.
You may have no point to multiclass in 3 classes, but multiclassing in two is just smart. You can compensate minor stat difference with equipment, you can't do the same with massive passive buff and class-tied abilities from the cross-class.
Of course if you are starting with character already above level 15 then you can't have full tier 3 in both classes, so there is a need to make judgement if going to lower tier class is worth it.

We shouldn't bring equipment into the discussion because:
A. It's really random, you could get that piece of equipment the first 5 seasons or you could simply not see it until the endgame.
B. If you bring in equipment you can also bring in consumables, at which point every character is broken.
C. Regardless, most useful skills that come from multiclassing can also be obtained with equipment. +Critical%, +Evasion, +Accuracy, all of these can come from equipment too, even +Mobility and Double Movement.

Secondly, I don't think his statement is false, he said most units benefit more from single classing and this is true because most characters are already level 10+ when obtained which are definitely most of your roster in any campaign, the best condition for multiclassing would be level 6 or under as those characters only lose 1 level of progression (you will only get about 3 of these characters per playthrough).

Regardless I'd like to hear from anyone else who actually tested the multiclass theory, because I did and fielding an Archer>Lancer with ~500 HP is horrendously cumbersome when you could have your 650+ HP pure Lancer actually pulling their weight and tanking hits.

Remember these multiclassed units have to compete with your starting roster to be actually worth using not "just for fun", of course then you're using a unit just for fun you can do whatever you want.

[NikDanger]

The biggest strike against multi-classing is that your single-classed knights are plenty strong enough to overcome anything in the game, so it often feels like doing the extra work to min-max them is unnecessary. BUT, some people enjoy tinkering with builds for its own sake, and I appreciate that this game gives you the option without making it at all mandatory if you're not turned on by that.

Personally, I find the beginning of the game to be the hardest part, so I dislike gimping my knights at that point to make them better for the end-game that I have no problem with anyway. So, I tend to multi-class only those characters that would spend almost no time in an inferior form.

Edit: Another issue I just thought of... If you're not interested in doing the late-game optional fights, you might not even get your multi-classed knights up to the levels where they can really strut before you end the game. I don't know how other people feel about those fights, but I find it a bit of a slog, and usually rush to end the game as soon as I can. Consequently and for example, in the file I'm playing right now, I'm right at the end and my highest level knight is 28 (Medessa), and she's also my only knight above 25. My highest level project knight, Ba'al, actually just hit 20 during the penultimate fight. All that work to make him a Dark Knight with double move, and... only one fight to show him off, and I probably won't even bring him to it.

[Ddeus]

potions are the great equalizer in all but passives

[Fennel]

NikDanger eredeti hozzászólása:

Edit: Another issue I just thought of... If you're not interested in doing the late-game optional fights, you might not even get your multi-classed knights up to the levels where they can really strut before you end the game. I don't know how other people feel about those fights, but I find it a bit of a slog, and usually rush to end the game as soon as I can. Consequently and for example, in the file I'm playing right now, I'm right at the end and my highest level knight is 28 (Medessa), and she's also my only knight above 25. My highest level project knight, Ba'al, actually just hit 20 during the penultimate fight. All that work to make him a Dark Knight with double move, and... only one fight to show him off, and I probably won't even bring him to it.

That's a great point to bring, as my own experience was the only data I had, but my knights are also very low level, my "project knights" as you called them reached at maximum level 18 (Shu Fen). This on hard mode, I finished at around turn 25, In fact it took me at least 7 more turns of grinding for items just for her to reach 20, and keep in mind at least 5 turns before that I already had my 6 strongest units flanking the last remnants of the last faction in the map, meaning there was no space for another unit to join in anyways.

[Doom Descendant]

its the same as the old one i guess. more better.
the mapping of element and passive make multi class shine here.

ive already multiclass 3 lowest knight from quest (lionel. shu fen, ba'al) i think that trio gonna be my most multi class play using normal campaigns.

need to play more to make ultimate multiclass knight i guess, since there is several new item that down grade level only but the status stand still, the item to pass 1 proficient. etc etc.

but i dont see the broken cross class like ninja meets wizard in briganding GE. oh gowd that rimlight choking stat from quest 😂 paralyze spell goes to 100% to any knight ... 🙄

[AH-1 Cobra]

Multi-classing is good. Especially with enlightenment scrolls and rebirth elixirs which you can use to get extra proficiency levels. I pick one female caster, and max out witch, saint, and leave them on troubadour, so they get the whole line of spells.

And/or I pick a male fighter, usually a lower level starting one, someone like Ba'al or Lionel, and go Swordmaster, Treasure Hunter, Champion, and settle on Viking. VIking's AOE move is extremely devastating, and Viking is also a great candidate for the Zoar's Tears for double action, probably the best class to use that on, IMO. You can still put unicorns, gremlins, mermaids on them for zero cost with specific gear even with Zoar's Tears.

You can cut down on burning scrolls. What I do is level to 5, pop a rebirth elixir, that way I hit 5 again, and I got a T1 class mastered, then swap to another tier 1, level that to 10, got a 2nd T1 5* and then I 5* 2 tier 2 classes between level 10 and 20, and between 20 and 30, I 5* 2 tier 3 classes, and use scrolls to get the rest. This is why low starting level characters are the best. By just using 1 rebirth potion at level 5, you can technically 5* 2 tier 3 classes, which means you only need 10 scrolls to get you to the 3rd tier 3 class, and they're pretty common drops from questing. So only 1 rebirth elixir and 10 enlightenment scrolls to make Leonora or Shu Fen a Troubadour with Witch and Saint magic.

[Nizaha]

Cross classing is definitely a good idea for some classes. You can, for example, get accuracy up for your inaccurate Barbarian classes by crossing them with Monk for the Monk accuracy up passives. Some characters also have pretty interesting stat lines (Ba'al comes to mind, he's got pretty good INT for a warrior type) that work well for cross classing into hybrids since they already have the stats for it anyways.

I generally wouldn't bother making a hybrid out of anyone higher than level 15, and honestly rarely bother with anyone that can't start their 2nd tier 1 class before level 10 since the lower stat growths from the tier 1 class hurt, not to mention that it sucks leveling a tier 1 class when you're level 16+ and need a lot more exp per level than when you were level 6.

Also, don't ignore / discount equipment from the discussion. Obviously gear is pretty RNG dependent, but not only do we have NG+ in this version to carry over items, but it's good to think about what benefits you get out of having certain items available to you early on. If you have some +def gear it can help to mitigate some of the pain you'll deal with when leveling a tier 1 melee class that has lower defense than the tier 2 class you could already be using instead, for example, as defense is purely a function of your current class + gear and has nothing to do with level ups.

Obviously you shouldn't assume that you have access to infinite numbers of consumables or what have you though, lol.

[Багряный]

This is suitable for a priestess who has no useful spells at level 20. At the same time, the witch has a very strong meteor shower, and the troubadour has geo lightning

[Fennel]

Sheyra eredeti hozzászólása:

Obviously gear is pretty RNG dependent, but not only do we have NG+ in this version to carry over items, but it's good to think about what benefits you get out of having certain items available to you early on...

You can only carry over consumables for NG+, unless I'm missing some hidden prompt or requirement.
But I guess having surplus 1* items is something that happens regularly enough, then again, if you had at least that 1* item on everyone does it really "mitigate" the difference in stats?

[CaoLex]

Don't forget stat bonus from equipping all items of the same tier (if PC version have it, since there are some minor differences with PS4 as I see).
So having all lower tier sometimes better than having one item of two tiers higher.

[Fang]

There's Challenge mode, in this mode all your chars start off at level 1/tier 1 so you have total freedom in how to customize them. You'd think that would be a good place for it.

But then Challenge mode introduces time limit>S< where you need to capture bases to avoid being knocked out, so the more time you spend on training and improving chars the harder that's gonna get. You also get score bonuses for reaching level milestones, so you're likely getting those slower aswell.

But it does have more potential there I think. You can improve them in battle as the level difference with the enemy is non-existent at game start.

[Lasci]

Multi-classing is an unnecessary distraction. It's a neat novelty for replaying through the game and doing wild things with project knights that start at a low level, but you're almost always trading away the immediate gratification of power now (when it's actually useful) for power later (when it's less useful).

The benefit of multi-classing doesn't really kick in until a unit is 25, and at that point, they're already primed to be extremely powerful just by the nature of being at tier 3 and a high level. If you are delaying moving to the next tier of classes even by a level - especially after you hit level 20 - that could be a battle or two or three that you aren't actually accessing all the juicy power bonuses you get from each tier.

I also just generally find it annoying to micro manage a character's experience gains to make sure they're mastering the classes as quickly as possible without any wasted levels.

There are two reasonable exceptions. I mentioned the first one, which are low-level project knights that aren't losing much by swapping between classes. The other is for healing classes, which I think range anywhere from weak to functionally useless. I always move clerics/priests over to mages/sorceresses and never look back.