Is it really that bad?

[AwesomeWolfgang]

See title

[Captaincoolness1]

I'm glad I decided to view the reviews before my purchase
I'll give this a miss

[Mastermatta]

Originally posted by Champ 117:

Originally posted by Mastermatta:

Both don't really say much about the game so ill take whichever one has more playtime.

One brings up a scene and gives details and a reasoning (saying something about the game).

The other does not.

Time is literally irrelevant in this case and one is an objectively better review. You can even flip which one is the positive review and the answer would remain the same.

So thank you for proving my point. Quality of the review is a lot more important than time played, after all time spent sitting in the main menu is no different to that clock than time spent actually playing the game.

no completely disagree, one gives an opinion on literally 0.1% of a game (a scene that is 30 seconds in an over 8 hour campaign and that 30 seconds isn't even gameplay) and one references the game overall without any support. both are not real reviews but at least one has bothered to experienced more of the game. That's the one I will choose if i have to choose regardless of if its the negative or positive one.

[weiss]

after going through Champ 117´s post history seems it like that he´s literarly a troll account and just jumps onto every game hate train possible. explains some stuff in his profile. aka why he hides most of it and doesnt even have an icon picture since 19 years.

[Illusia]

Originally posted by CrisFan:

Originally posted by Illusia:

Lol? Just because I haven't played the others doesn't mean I don't have valuable input. Perhaps you playing the others means your input should be invalid, after all, you're not taking the game at face value then? Thats from the same angle as that comment, after all.
Nah, personally I feel like just how Homeworld 3 was announced was plenty of information to see it wouldn't be a 'return to form'. Its unfortunate that at least in my opinion I think Sins is a better RTS and thats with it being more of a soft 4x then a RTS. I do own the remastered collection and Deserts Of Karak so maybe eventually I'll settle down and give them all a shot proper.

Please do try at least Deserts Of Karak, you will not regret it.
As for comparing Sins to HM3 ... it works since there are somewhat the same fast paced RTS but it terms of tech tree and gameplay Sins wins easy. At least thats what i think.

Ya I wouldn't compare sins to other homeworld games. I know that the other homeworlds are different games. Thats why I brought it up specifically talking about Homeworld 3.

Originally posted by weiss:

Originally posted by Illusia:

Lol? Just because I haven't played the others doesn't mean I don't have valuable input. Perhaps you playing the others means your input should be invalid, after all, you're not taking the game at face value then? Thats from the same angle as that comment, after all.
Nah, personally I feel like just how Homeworld 3 was announced was plenty of information to see it wouldn't be a 'return to form'. Its unfortunate that at least in my opinion I think Sins is a better RTS and thats with it being more of a soft 4x then a RTS. I do own the remastered collection and Deserts Of Karak so maybe eventually I'll settle down and give them all a shot proper.

no, am just sick of you hyped peoples whining about it that the game doesnt meets the expectation of said hype o.o thats simply it. nothing else.
am not defending the game either.
it just shows in all the posts how so many peoples got hyped but are now disapointed.
if you let it happen that you get hyped and then getting disapointed is that your fault.
hype was never good for games. hypes ended always more or less bad for games.

thats simply it, nothing else.
i can tell you already that the hype for GTA6 will end really bad for rockstar aswell.

I'm one of the few people who aren't defending the game though. I'm just saying for a RTS, its actually pretty okay. Which is why I specified that I hadn't played the previous homeworld games; to people who go in expecting a older homeworld game's mechanics, its letting them know that I don't have input on its loyalty to the franchise but that the game's systems are competent for a RTS.

[Champ 117]

Originally posted by RoReaver:

1).Subsystems were done better in Cata (so your argument HW2 is the starting point is funny especially considering iteration is supposed to be high point to next high point, HW2 is very much a low point for gameplay)

2). Squadrons are simplifying gameplay for no net positive, good that they were cut.

3). The level of cope here is beyond hope. HW3 didn't damage its predecessors, 2 and DoK did, massively, to the point retconning both out and simply having a bridge between Cata and HW3 with a 20 minute cinematic explaining what happened during the dustwars to lead Karan to be at the helm of the Sajuuk would literally be an upgrade in all respects for the series, the fact you cannot even see this tells me your sheer ineptitude when you called someone else a smooth brain speaks to yourself greatly. There's no universe where deleting DoK and HW2 doesn't benefit the lore of Homeworld as a whole, deleting Homeworld 3 would only remove a capstone for Karan's story (not a great one but asides from crying for Kharak, setting step on Hiigara last and her thinking Makaan would be a bade Sajuuk Khar you'd be hard pressed to define her character beyond self-less and maternal (which is bad characterization), 3 at least gave her humanity even if less than ideally).

3a. And now I question if you're on the spectrum. Comparing a turn-based grand strategy game to a pausable RTS (in SP) is like me comparing you to a dog.
HW2 was complex, for a HW game, in a way that did not profit the game at all, it was botched, Cataclysm did it better by actually iterating on HW1 not trying to make a wheel and somehow managing to make a corkscrew and then corkscrew itself to completion. And that's not on the Relic crew either, it's mostly on Sierra making them retool everything in under 8 months.

3b. So you didn't play the game... there's about 3 instances of weaponized hyperspace ingame. One that's not in a cutscene (ships cutting into things while jumping into things) is aggressive combat jumping of the Queen's Guard in the 2nd to last mission. Did you make it that far at least?
And it's also mentioned in the game that the Anomaly is a dark area of space, you don't know what going on in there just that no one returns (Garden of Kadesh) as otherwise the fleet Karan was with could've gotten messages out to warn of what was there, they couldn't, one frigate crew died trying as you would've seen in a mission if you played that much.

3c. Well we agree on one point at least.

1. Agreed that Cata handled it better than 2, only it was limited in Cata to the Mothership and Carriers. 2 expanded it to several other ships (which is a good thing) and then handled it poorly (bad thing) with making the subsystems tanky to the point that sending a raid after production ships was worthless and it was easier to just kill the ship itself. This would be a balancing issue rather than the concept of the system itself being an issue. In general, all subsystems should be destroyed by the time the actual health runs out, assuming they are actually being targeted.

2. Yet another thing we agree on.

3. "The level of cope here is beyond hope."
Only cope here is from your imagination. Never said that 2 and DoK didn't harm the franchise. However, where those two put a bullet in the franchise's knees, 3 put a slug into the chest and we'll have to see if that's fatal to it or not.

"There's no universe where deleting DoK and HW2 doesn't benefit the lore of Homeworld as a whole..."
Projection levels: over 9,000. Never argued against ANY of that. So try again and tell me what I think. The fact that you seem to pull arguments out of thin air and act like I said them is astounding.

"3 at least gave her humanity even if less than ideally"
Literally one of like three things (story wise) I give props to Homeworld 3 for. It put an actual face to Karen and gave her more of a personality. It's a shame the character's potential is wasted given how 3 ends.

3a. "a turn-based grand strategy game" Tell me you have never played the game without telling me you never played the game, or even done any kind of looking into the game beyond "What does Steam say the genre is?". Only time you are in a turn-based system is while on Earth. Everything else is real time (from building bases and orbital stations, to conducting space-based combat with fleets of ships) and you spend the vast majority of your time off world (which is like 20-30 hours into a playthrough out of 80 to the longest I've heard of which would be 140 hours). Both Homeworld and Terra Invicta are Strategy games (Granny Smith to Mcintosh [both apples, just different kinds of apples] comparison), and you were talking about how overly complex Homeworld 2 is. It's not. It's rather simple when you look at strategy games as a whole.

Now I would agree that it is the most complex Homeworld game, but still does not reach the level of overly complex. Just poorly balanced at almost a game-design level, and arguably too complex for the dev team to handle. With hindsight being what it is, would have been better to just backwards engineer Cata and use that for the base of 2 instead of what they actually used.

" Cataclysm did it better by actually iterating on HW1 not trying to make a wheel and somehow managing to make a corkscrew and then corkscrew itself to completion. "
Agreed. Cata is objectively better than 2 in almost every way. This is something we both agree on. Most of the stuff that's in both 2 and Cata is a step to the side (better in some ways and worse in others) and/or a step back (flat out worse). As you pointed out, subsystems. They are definitely handled better in Cata, overall.

3b. The Steam awards say otherwise, but keep trying to grasp for that red herring. You might stop looking like a fool yet.

For completion sake rather than as an actaul point: First one (in the cutscene) happened in DoK as well. Wasn't weaponized then, isn't now. Yes this is meta-knowledge, don't care, neither of us even have an issue with this one.

Given that they were "hyperspace tunnels" that ONLY brought in enemy reinforcements (mostly corvettes and carriers iirc). You know, like we do when we jump in a system for the first time. That's not "weaponizing hyperspace" on the level that was showing in the cutscene post-tutorial/first mission. You know, the one showing planets being bombarded with solar flares and asteroids? Those that were the original threat at the very start?

You mean, that one frigate that was hiding in the wreck, in front of a Gate they couldn't have accessed anyway? The Frigate that was treated as a message in a bottle in the ocean? Yeah, that doesn't prove your point to any degree. Homeworld 3 already retconned a s*** ton, so why not have them able to have constant communication through it all? Let's also just throw out that part at the start where High Command tells them to go radio silent. Or, maybe they could have tried experimenting and trying to find a way to get a message back to High Command. Still doesn't address the issue of the story having no tension.

Originally posted by Mastermatta:

no one gives an opinion on literally 0.1% of a game (a scene that is 30 seconds in an over 8 hour and that 30 seconds isn't even gameplay) and one references the game overall without any support. both are not real reviews but at least one has bothered to experienced more of the game. That's the one I will choose if i have to choose regardless of if its the negative or positive one.

Neither are real reviews because I didn't feel like copy/pasting an essay for one and three more sentences of deflection for another. Both of them are very common types of reviews on Steam, so the actual game they are from doesn't matter. One of them is actually qualitative, the other is at best an opinion with no support (a bot at worst, and yes you can actually pay money to give a game fake good reviews, and no I'm not saying that's happened here given the amount of people trying desperately to put words in my mouth). The fact you put emphasis on one that, for all you know, could have walked away from the computer for a long time and then made a review as more credible than one that actually has examples and reasoning says more about you than anything.

Originally posted by weiss:

you dont have "standards" you are one of those "hyped" peoples aswell. i seen your posts in other topics getting hyped by trailers and demo etc.
you just cant deal with it when someone points such things out. with that is YOUR opinion disregarded aswell because you are one of the hyped peoples aswell.
i wonder when ya start to grammar troll me because i dont write to 100% accurate english.

I stopped having hype for this game five years ago. So no, was not hyped. Had hope, which was why I backed when Fig was a thing, but was not in any way shape or form hyped. Keep making things up though. It's the only argument you have.

"i wonder when ya start to grammar troll me because i dont write to 100% accurate "
Literally, no one cares, even those that claim they do. This is Steam. As long as you can actually communicate an idea, it's fine.

Originally posted by weiss:

after going through Champ 117´s post history seems it like that he´s literarly a troll account and just jumps onto every game hate train possible. explains some stuff in his profile. aka why he hides most of it and doesnt even have an icon picture since 19 years.

"jumps onto every game hate train possible"
Ah yes, the hate train of "Sony is literally committing fraud by selling things to people when they [Sony] knows that the people would be unable to use the product legally." Yeah, that's quite the hate train and was totally unjustified criticism.

"aka why he hides most of it and doesnt even have an icon picture since 19 years."
Or I just don't give a f*** about a Steam account as I have more important things to do with my life then try and make moronic Steam users happy? I have s*** private because I know trolls like you would go out of their way to try (emphasis on try) to harass me. Not like I haven't already had people attempt to dox me and get me fired from my job (they failed miserably and were contacting a former employer who was more than happy to ream each of them out for trying such pathetic tactics). I even gotten death threats from those psychos, in which to the idiot (obvious burner account, so no idea who did it nor do I truly care and I highly doubt has anything to do with Homeworld 3) that did it a half hour ago, I'll give you the same response I give to all you who send that s*** my way:

Bring it. I'll be waiting.

Now back to the matter at hand. Cry about it more, then knock off the stalker routine because it's creepy af (no, I won't date you) and actually address the points made.

[Amvorn]

This is why I keep telling my friends to NOT pre-order anything...

[Krówka]

In short, the game's ok'ish, the graphics are beautiful, optimization despite some people claiming otherwise is OK for a modern looking game released in 2024, the story is like disney aka trash that can only appeal to little kids with literal hand holding "I forgive you killing billions cause you felt lonely" ending,

War Games is same as demo with just a slight variety to first and second mission, third is always same, so it's boring AF if you already played it.

Fleet edition is a waste of money, deluxe version probably as well considering it will only ever add to War Games which is boring.

Best part about new homeworld - it's a short game, so adults, you know, people having a job and family, can actually finish it and easily get all achievements, that point alone made me give it a positive review:).

[The Rifleman™]

Homeworld done homeworld'd itself. HW1 and Cat has the story. HW2 has the mechanics and the macro. HW3 from what I understand from an outside perspective is that it tries to be both of these but it accomplishes none of that while not being unique at all.

That being said,

I probably will buy it, in time. I don't know how I feel about spending that much on a mixed review game.

[RoReaver]

Originally posted by Krówka:

In short, the game's ok'ish, the graphics are beautiful, optimization despite some people claiming otherwise is OK for a modern looking game released in 2024, the story is like disney aka trash that can only appeal to little kids with literal hand holding "I forgive you killing billions cause you felt lonely" ending,

War Games is same as demo with just a slight variety to first and second mission, third is always same, so it's boring AF if you already played it.

Fleet edition is a waste of money, deluxe version probably as well considering it will only ever add to War Games which is boring.

Best part about new homeworld - it's a short game, so adults, you know, people having a job and family, can actually finish it and easily get all achievements, that point alone made me give it a positive review:).

One thing here "with literal hand holding "I forgive you killing billions cause you felt lonely" ending" not quite considering Ti'ma got yeeted into hyperspace, probably execution style considering those windows sliced into progenitor derelicts with ease, so while there was understanding, I donno if she was forgiven in that scene but I did finish the game at like 6 AM so bit fuzzy on the exact details, of actions in context (and you can kinda argue Makaan was bulleted for far less as the ADW platforms came post-death) it's still not Disney tier. Disney would've had a redemption, a turn to the light and a noble sacrifice, Ti'ma didn't really repent which is probably why Karan had to drag her into the portal basically.

[Flushing]

Originally posted by The Rifleman™:

Homeworld done homeworld'd itself. HW1 and Cat has the story. HW2 has the mechanics and the macro. HW3 from what I understand from an outside perspective is that it tries to be both of these but it accomplishes none of that while not being unique at all.

That being said,

I probably will buy it, in time. I don't know how I feel about spending that much on a mixed review game.

I find it to be closest to Homeworld 1, and I like it for that reason. It doesn't try to be HW2 at all, which is why those who like HW2, the most, feel let down by the gameplay progression.

Storywise it's on par with all the HW games but Cataclysm (ironically the best story and not Relic). I like the cinematics and being able to see Higara and Higarans (like real people finally), but I understand it if people just like how narrative content was delivered before.

Within the game it shows what's in store over the next six months. New factions will be released every 2 months, and free content between. 3 new factions already announced.

The only issue I have, relative to the original Homeworld, is that the Pacing is much faster. You can control the gamespeed at some points, but the baseline is fast.

That, and ship balance is off (relative to prior Homeworld Games). By way of example fighters punch well above their weight and interceptors can easily destroy frigates.

In the past, that was really just for bombers.

Also, (and this gets into pacing) every ship is much faster reducing travel times by like %200. This makes it difficult to gauge the distances between objects if your coming from HW1-HW2 because you can move you mothership to your opponents' mothership in the time it would take to send a scout in the original games.

The game is visually stunning. The support frigats function exactly how they did in the original. Movement feels like home. Nothing looks "plain," even the assault frigates and their machine guns are amongst my favorite units.

You do get use to the pacing and when you start skirmishes it feels good.

Essentially, the changes make it so skirmishes resolve in half the time as HW1 and HW2 games.

I am not trying to hype you out, but you might like it.

I was never going to pass on Homeworld 3 because of my love for the series, and I don't feel let down. Every Homeworld game is very different from it's predecessors.

It was much harder for me to adjust to Homeworld 2 (from both HW1 and HWC), then it was from HW1 to HW3.

If you consider HW2 to be the peak of the series, it's understandable that you could feel a little let down because it's much closer to HW1. I enjoyed HW1 much more than HW2 and didn't find the HW2 changes to be additive to the series.

[Superchewbacca]

sad, but al least we have the old games. ill get this one day for 90% off to complete the collection...

[ಠ_ಠ Exil]

Originally posted by Flushing:

But the HW story is not a masterpiece, not by any means.

But it was a story... this one is not.

[RoReaver]

Originally posted by Flushing:

than HW2 and didn't find the HW2 changes to be additive to the series.

Another kindred. Are old RelicNews guard as well or someone who found the beauty of HW1 outside of the old forums?

Originally posted by ಠ_ಠ Exil:

But the HW story is not a masterpiece, not by any means.

But it was a story... this one is not.

To you. To me asides from this, which at least tries, there's 1 and Cata. The others are 1 lites.

Originally posted by Superchewbacca:

sad, but al least we have the old games. ill get this one day for 90% off to complete the collection...

Me with DoK. Heck even less so because I got DoK just to do a full LP of HW on my channel and found it infuriatingly stupid more than HW2 on its gameplay ( "hehe your forces too stupid to move back from artillery or attack, here have 3-4 artillery cruisers to ♥♥♥♥ up your entire attack force while you're balancing other fronts too" ). And HW2 was an epic ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥... even in HW2 Remastered I got to the idiotic point of having to cope with around 8-12 Vagyr Battlecruisers at once... if the AI was remotely competent it would've been a mission kill the moment they moved in but as the AI gets distracted like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ magpie in that game, I could bait them in groups of 4-5 with corvettes and kill them off. That isn't skill btw, that's liquid ass, skill would've been my antics using carriers in HW1 to surprise salvette heavy cruisers.

[[AF] Cannon_Fodder]

TL/DR: Gameplay is good, story is very mediocre.

[RoReaver]

Originally posted by AF Cannon_Fodder:

TL/DR: Gameplay is good, story is very mediocre.

I was honestly going "please be the beast please be the beast" when jumping into the Anomaly.

Or an evolved strain set loose by <remaineder of this message was redacted on HSS directive Omega - Tango - Delta>