20+ years

[Thandius]

2ß+ years I waited and now they put Denuvo into this game, which is a dealbreaker for me. I am almost glad people say the story is lacking and the mechanics are watered down.

Well, it will still have to compete with Nightingale for biggest disappointment of the year.

And I'll always have HW1 & 2.

[Caldrin]

Ok bye

[Chrypt22]

This isn't a greyhound bus stop. You dont need to announce your departure.

And I guarantee you that you have several games in your library that contain DRM.

[Midwayz]

Originally posted by Thandius:

2ß+ years I waited and now they put Denuvo into this game, which is a dealbreaker for me. I am almost glad people say the story is lacking and the mechanics are watered down.

Well, it will still have to compete with Nightingale for biggest disappointment of the year.

And I'll always have HW1 & 2.

dont forget cataclysm and its only $1.79 for more nostalgia

[Joko]

You are missing a great game, but your choice!
All this Denuvo complaining is so ridiculous. There are no issues at all, and even if Denuvo causes 10 FPS less, I dont care if the game is good.

[⎛⎝Duckers McQuack⎠⎞]

Originally posted by Chrypt22:

This isn't a greyhound bus stop. You dont need to announce your departure.

And I guarantee you that you have several games in your library that contain DRM.

When they realize steam is a DRM.

[Leo]

Originally posted by ⎛⎝Duckers McQuack⎠⎞:

Originally posted by Chrypt22:

This isn't a greyhound bus stop. You dont need to announce your departure.

And I guarantee you that you have several games in your library that contain DRM.

When they realize steam is a DRM.

Steam DRM is nothing compared to the malware that is Denuvo. The reason DRM even has such a bad reputation is exactly because of Denuvo, Arxan and the now defunct Securom, which by the way, was made by the same people that make Denuvo.

[Leo]

Originally posted by Joko:

You are missing a great game, but your choice!
All this Denuvo complaining is so ridiculous. There are no issues at all, and even if Denuvo causes 10 FPS less, I dont care if the game is good.

The "works on my machine" argument is the most common thing thrown around when talking about Denuvo. You can do less than 5 minutes of research to find that Denuvo causes massive issues. Denuvo is only a negative for the paying customers, not the pirates that it's trying to stop from playing the game.

[『Insperatus』]

get a better computer. I have no performance issues. Git gud.

[KrayZee]

Originally posted by Strix:

Originally posted by Joko:

You are missing a great game, but your choice!
All this Denuvo complaining is so ridiculous. There are no issues at all, and even if Denuvo causes 10 FPS less, I dont care if the game is good.

The "works on my machine" argument is the most common thing thrown around when talking about Denuvo. You can do less than 5 minutes of research to find that Denuvo causes massive issues. Denuvo is only a negative for the paying customers, not the pirates that it's trying to stop from playing the game.

Why not for the pirates as well?
Denuvo is literally not cracked since forever now (in game-cracking standards)
It's, right now, the best DRM when it comes to preventing illegal downloads from people that didn't pay for the game.

Calling it malware is probably just some way of expressing disdain, but denuvo anti-tamper doesn't install anything on your PC.
This is not anti-cheat.

There may or may not be a performance issue. I know for sure that it often causes longer loading times that become noticeable on bad machines.
But it sure as hell does stop pirates from accessing the game.
Last game cracked with Denuvo was September 2023 or something?
This statement is usually often written by people who have very little idea about how hard it is to crack Denuvo. There is quite literally no one doing it right now because it's not worth it.
Especially not before all DLCs and expansions are out - and by that time, Denuvo is often removed by the studios themselves.

[Hidingmonkey]

no one cares, this is for people who play homeworld3

or at moment due to foul ups want to.

[Leo]

Originally posted by KrayZee:

Originally posted by Strix:

The "works on my machine" argument is the most common thing thrown around when talking about Denuvo. You can do less than 5 minutes of research to find that Denuvo causes massive issues. Denuvo is only a negative for the paying customers, not the pirates that it's trying to stop from playing the game.

Why not for the pirates as well?
Denuvo is literally not cracked since forever now (in game-cracking standards)
It's, right now, the best DRM when it comes to preventing illegal downloads from people that didn't play the game.

Calling it malware is probably just some way of expressing disdain, but denuvo anti-tamper doesn't install anything on your PC.
This is not anti-cheat.

There may or may not be a performance issue. I know for sure that it often causes longer loading times that become noticeable on bad machines.
But it sure as hell does stop pirates from accessing the game.
Last game cracked with Denuvo was September 2023 or something?
This statement is usually often written by people who have very little idea about how hard it is to crack Denuvo. There is quite literally no one doing it right now because it's not worth it.
Especially not before all DLCs and expansions are out - and by that time, Denuvo is often removed by the studios themselves.

Yes, you are correct about the cracking part. It's very time consuming to crack Denuvo, which is why not that many Denuvo games get cracked. What I meant by Denuvo not being a specific problem for pirates, is that if the game eventually gets cracked, then the pirates will have a better experience with the game than the paying customers. And if it doesn't get cracked, then most of the time the publisher itself removes Denuvo from the game later, which will make pirates be able to play the game.

By malware I more specifically meant that Denuvo is extremely suspicious, since it uses a very high amount of computer resources, and frequently calls back to Denuvo's own servers, meaning that they could very easily be harvesting any kind of data they want from your computer. I wouldn't exactly trust the same company that made SecuROM.

There hasn't been a single study that would prove piracy affecting sales of games in a negative way. Denuvo is simply just used as "reassurance" for the investors of companies, because they're afraid that they might lose out on possible profits, even though it has never been proven to work like that.

[Erei]

Originally posted by KrayZee:

Why not for the pirates as well?
Denuvo is literally not cracked since forever now (in game-cracking standards)
It's, right now, the best DRM when it comes to preventing illegal downloads from people that didn't play the game.

Depends on the game. Some popular denuvo games have been pirated.
What Denuvo guarantee is not being pirated in the first week of sale, which is the most critical for most games, especially when games are actually bad and people flood the bad review on top of telling others not to buy. Good games still get bought for years after release.
Also, anti pirate efficiency is debatable, at best.

Do you know witcher 3 ? One of the best seller of its time. You can "pirate it" by simply buying it on GoG, download the DRM free installer, ask for a refund. Always could. It is that easy to do. It's not even piracy at this point. Yet, it's a best seller. How come ?

Calling it malware is probably just some way of expressing disdain, but denuvo anti-tamper doesn't install anything on your PC.
This is not anti-cheat.

There may or may not be a performance issue. I know for sure that it often causes longer loading times that become noticeable on bad machines.
But it sure as hell does stop pirates from accessing the game.
Last game cracked with Denuvo was September 2023 or something?
This statement is usually often written by people who have very little idea about how hard it is to crack Denuvo. There is quite literally no one doing it right now because it's not worth it.
Especially not before all DLCs and expansions are out - and by that time, Denuvo is often removed by the studios themselves.

Lots of recent AAA release with poor optimization are Denuvo games. Like Dragons Dogma 2, or sw jedi survivor. It's not always but it's often. Humankind dev even removed Denuvo pre launch because it was a burden on performance.

[KrayZee]

Originally posted by Strix:

There hasn't been a single study that would prove piracy affecting sales of games in a negative way. Denuvo is simply just used as "reassurance" for the investors of companies, because they're afraid that they might lose out on possible profits, even though it has never been proven to work like that.

This is quite hard to make a study for because you'd have to get reasonable numbers that simply aren't there because either the game has it or it has not.

But I can tell you right now that if I could get access to HW3 without paying and without consequences I would do that - I'm rich enough to buy games but it's not like I throw money away
Since however I can't, I'll actually buy it on release.

That should already suffice as proof that there is an interest in anti pirate measures.

After all, it's apparently enough proof when someone says "it's hurting more than it does any good" because that guy didn't buy the game due to "DRM".

Originally posted by Erei:

Depends on the game. Some popular denuvo games have been pirated.
What Denuvo guarantee is not being pirated in the first week of sale, which is the most critical for most games, especially when games are actually bad and people flood the bad review on top of telling others not to buy. Good games still get bought for years after release.
Also, anti pirate efficiency is debatable, at best.

Do you know witcher 3 ? One of the best seller of its time. You can "pirate it" by simply buying it on GoG, download the DRM free installer, ask for a refund. Always could. It is that easy to do. It's not even piracy at this point. Yet, it's a best seller. How come ?

Yeah... it's debatable, exactly my point.
In case of Witcher 3 there is nothing that could proof that the game wouldn't have sold more copies if DRM is a thing.
Perhaps it would've moved pirates to buy it, perhaps it wouldn't.

It's quite easy to explain the "how come" part.
Because support for companies and even being scared of doing something illegal or quite obviously downloading malware is a thing.
People are quite literally scared of Denuvo phoning home to a server, but aren't supposed to be scared of downloading stuff on share sites from people that know quite literally how to hack?

[Erei]

Originally posted by KrayZee:

Originally posted by Strix:

There hasn't been a single study that would prove piracy affecting sales of games in a negative way. Denuvo is simply just used as "reassurance" for the investors of companies, because they're afraid that they might lose out on possible profits, even though it has never been proven to work like that.

This is quite hard to make a study for because you'd have to get reasonable numbers that simply aren't there because either the game has it or it has not.

But I can tell you right now that if I could get access to HW3 without paying and without consequences I would do that - I'm rich enough to buy games but it's not like I throw money away
Since however I can't, I'll actually buy it on release.

That should already suffice as proof that there is an interest in anti pirate measures.

After all, it's apparently enough proof when someone says "it's hurting more than it does any good" because that guy didn't buy the game due to "DRM".

You can get everything on Gog for free.
Gog has been active for years and all of those games sell copies. What wonder is that ?

[Leo]

Originally posted by KrayZee:

Originally posted by Strix:

There hasn't been a single study that would prove piracy affecting sales of games in a negative way. Denuvo is simply just used as "reassurance" for the investors of companies, because they're afraid that they might lose out on possible profits, even though it has never been proven to work like that.

This is quite hard to make a study for because you'd have to get reasonable numbers that simply aren't there because either the game has it or it has not.

But I can tell you right now that if I could get access to HW3 without paying and without consequences I would do that - I'm rich enough to buy games but it's not like I throw money away
Since however I can't, I'll actually buy it on release.

That should already suffice as proof that there is an interest in anti pirate measures.

After all, it's apparently enough proof when someone says "it's hurting more than it does any good" because that guy didn't buy the game due to "DRM".

This just seems like a non-argument. There definitely hasn't been anything that would prove, that Denuvo would increase sales. Denuvo is fundamentally bad for the paying customer, since it's a product targeted towards investors, not customers.

As I said earlier, you can do the smallest amount of research to find, that Denuvo only impacts paying customers in a negative way.