You don't need Denuvo.

[lukaself]

Using Denuvo is like admitting you have no confidence in your product's ability to incentivize a purchase from the pirates on its own. One thing I realized recently is that not a single game with Denuvo ever ended up Steam's top seller for any given year. (Why is Denuvo Anti-Tamper a problem?)

Palworld is currently breaking every sales record on Steam and is completely DRM-free. Last year's best selling title Baldur's Gate 3 was DRM-free, 2022 was the year of Elden Ring - no Denuvo there, 2021's most popular title Valheim was DRM-free, 2020 best selling title Hades was DRM-free, as well as Slay the Spire in 2019, Rimworld in 2018, Hollow Knight in 2017, Stardew Valley in 2016, The Witcher 3 in 2015...

I'm gutted as I've been desperately waiting for the return of Homeworld for years. I'm also a big fan of Black Bird Interactive's job on Shipbreaker who happens to be available DRM-free as well. People love this universe... and they evidently love DRM-free games, so please let them a chance to prove it to you by skipping the usual pitfalls of counter-productive AAA management.

[Elitewrecker PT]

What would the discussion be like if a denuvo game sold 5 million copies though. Or what about the no-DRM games that don't get those amounts of sales.

[Elegant Caveman]

Chroniver の投稿を引用：

That said, I also believe in fair examples and truth be told: Hogwarts Legacy was one of the best selling games as well and did have Denuvo.

Hardly a fair example...

It was a game about Hogwarts. That was going to sell like crazy no matter what.

There's also no way to know how many more people would have bought it if it didn't Denuvo (or EOS).

I'd love to play it, for example, but between Denuvo and EOS, that's not happening. Maybe if I get a console some day...?

I've considered that as a way to play games that have Denuvo (and other ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥) on PC, but I hate the idea of giving them more money; it's like I'm rewarding them for their anti-consumer practices.

A game about Hogwarts, though, has powerful mainstream appeal, so even more than other games, you're gonna get a bunch of more casual gamers who have no idea about things like DRM.

Squall Leonhart の投稿を引用：

Just as a PSA: the op is a known fearmonger that always whines about anti-cheat and anti-tamper mechanisms, there are no concerns to be had about modding or performance.

As someone else who very much dislikes anti-cheat and anti-tamper mechanisms in my games, what you see as a "fearmonger", I consider "a concerned citizen providing an important public service".

Your opinion is not fact.

Just because you don't like threads about Denuvo doesn't mean that everybody shares your opinion.

And considering how every game with Denuvo has a bunch of people complaining about Denuvo, it's pretty clear that this is an issue many care about.

If you don't care, great for you, enjoy the game.

Going out of your way to defend it is a pretty damn strange take, though.

[min3r95]

Elitewrecker PT の投稿を引用：

What would the discussion be like if a denuvo game sold 5 million copies though. Or what about the no-DRM games that don't get those amounts of sales.

still the same, there's no correlation between a strong, invasive DRM and sales.
there are objective factors to how many copies a game can sell, DRM isn't one of them.
these factors include marketing and popularity(the series,the game, the publishers,the developers), a game like Persona 5 on PC would totally outsell an indie hentai game, and a game like GTA 5 or RDR2 would totally outsell an indie hentai metroidvania game.

[lukaself]

Elitewrecker PT の投稿を引用：

What would the discussion be like if a denuvo game sold 5 million copies though. Or what about the no-DRM games that don't get those amounts of sales.

A lot of games with Denuvo sell more than 5 million copies, that's hardly the point. You need to apply pressure to quality, affordability and availability to sell a game. Games are made with limited resouces: Adding a costly DRM requiring one of several members of your team full-time attention into the mix will only limit your ability to affect those levers. That much is a given.

Marketing on its own only gets you so far: EA invested 40 million in the marketing of Immortals of Aveum and guess what... nobody cared.

[Elitewrecker PT]

Which would imply there's no actual correlation between being DRM-free and being GOTY / best-sellers, and it's strictly about the game itself.

[lukaself]

Elitewrecker PT の投稿を引用：

Which would imply there's no actual correlation between DRM-free and being GOTY / best-sellers, and it's strictly about the game itself.

Did I say there was? I established a correlation but did not imply the causation. The fact remains, we can't exactly deny the top sellers for the past decade are DRM-free games, can we? It's a strong clue that people are interested in quality, not in whatever flavour of DRM executives think they need to sell their games.

[Elegant Caveman]

Elitewrecker PT の投稿を引用：

Which would imply there's no actual correlation between being DRM-free and being GOTY / best-sellers, and it's strictly about the game itself.

It's not that being DRM-free makes games GOTY.

The point is that the fact that DRM-free games can do well goes against the excuse of executives who claim that they "need" DRM to avoid going bankrupt or whatever.

[Elitewrecker PT]

lukaself の投稿を引用：

Elitewrecker PT の投稿を引用：

Which would imply there's no actual correlation between DRM-free and being GOTY / best-sellers, and it's strictly about the game itself.

Did I say there was? I established a correlation but did not imply the causation. The fact remains, we can't exactly deny the top sellers for the past decade are DRM-free games, can we? It's a strong clue that people are interested in quality, not in whatever flavour of DRM executives think they need to sell their games.

Right, my mistake. The correlation is there, the causation is obviously unprovable. But yes, like we agreed, it's all down to the game itself.

[Mastermatta]

Lol i find these arguements regarding denuvo funny. There is all this speculation from people when gearbox has professional analysts with access to more data to decide if denuvo is worth it to them. Its not like use of denuvo is free for them. Im pretty sure they ran the numbers and found that it would net them more sales and profit to use it. Those numbers may not be totally accurate but better than the crap people are pulling out of there ***. It obviously your choice to not buy the game, but most people could not give a **** about denuvo.

[min3r95]

Mastermatta の投稿を引用：

Lol i find these arguements regarding denuvo funny. There is all this speculation from people when gearbox has professional analysts with access to more data to decide if denuvo is worth it to them. Its not like use of denuvo is free for them. Im pretty sure they ran the numbers and found that it would net them more sales and profit to use it. Those numbers may not be totally accurate but better than the crap people are pulling out of there ***. It obviously your choice to not buy the game, but most people could not give a **** about denuvo.

Companies can either make mistakes or have horrible decisions that doesn't based off anything, or even lying.
I think we have many examples over the years already.

Something that these companies have never been able to do for the last 11 years or heck, since the concept of DRM exist, is to prove that there's a correlation between a strong/invasive DRMs and sales.

Also, have you ever seen their numbers before? If you haven't then how could you know that their numbers are better?

You talked to most people? Because you're acting like it.

[Mastermatta]

min3r95 の投稿を引用：

Mastermatta の投稿を引用：

Lol i find these arguements regarding denuvo funny. There is all this speculation from people when gearbox has professional analysts with access to more data to decide if denuvo is worth it to them. Its not like use of denuvo is free for them. Im pretty sure they ran the numbers and found that it would net them more sales and profit to use it. Those numbers may not be totally accurate but better than the crap people are pulling out of there ***. It obviously your choice to not buy the game, but most people could not give a **** about denuvo.

Companies can either make mistakes or have horrible decisions that doesn't based off anything, or even lying.
I think we have many examples over the years already.:rmomo:

Something that these companies have never been able to do for the last 11 years or heck, since the concept of DRM exist, is to prove that there's a correlation between a strong/invasive DRMs and sales.

Also, have you ever seen their numbers before? If you haven't then how could you know that their numbers are better?

You talked to most people? Because you're acting like it.:momoyawn:

Have you, i litterally know no one im acquainted with who gives a ****. Also yes they can make dumb decisions, but what i saying is they likely do a proper analysis because money is on the line. They have money to buy data to do the proper analysis while people on this forum likely dont. Also why would they have to prove it? Its there right. I'm not telling you not to buy the game. Im just saying no matter how much you complain they are not going to change it based on threats from at most a couple hundred people on steam when the game needs to sell in the hundreds of thousands maybe even million +.

[lukaself]

Mastermatta の投稿を引用：

min3r95 の投稿を引用：

Companies can either make mistakes or have horrible decisions that doesn't based off anything, or even lying.
I think we have many examples over the years already.:rmomo:

Something that these companies have never been able to do for the last 11 years or heck, since the concept of DRM exist, is to prove that there's a correlation between a strong/invasive DRMs and sales.

Also, have you ever seen their numbers before? If you haven't then how could you know that their numbers are better?

You talked to most people? Because you're acting like it.:momoyawn:

Have you, i litterally know no one im acquainted with who gives a ****. Also yes they can make dumb decisions, but what i saying is they likely do a proper analysis because money is on the line. They have money to buy data to do the proper analysis while people on this forum likely dont. Also why would they have to prove it? Its there right. I'm not telling you not to buy the game. Im just saying no matter how much you complain they are not going to change it based on threats from at most a couple hundred people on steam when the game needs to sell in the hundreds of thousands maybe even million +.

You automatically assume that a corporation exclusively does things in order to get a direct financial benefit or that its executives always act truthfully and in its best interests... However the reason could be elsewhere: retaining control, planned obsolescence, placating uneducated investors, isolated decision of an executive in denial... in terms of coercion, delusions and corruption, the sky's the limit in that business.

In ten years, Denuvo has not been able to prove it has any effect on sales but a negative one. Your belief that they won't change it based on customer feedback is also incorrect: Several companies walked back their decisions following customer backlash in the past in the indie as well as AAA market spaces.

[UncleMarty]

This is a no buy while it's infected with Denuvo malware....

[Mastermatta]

Name some recent (less than 2 years old) triple aaa games that went back on denuvo before their game was cracked or less than 2 months after release.

[lukaself]

Mastermatta の投稿を引用：

Name some recent (less than 2 years old) triple aaa games that went back on denuvo before their game was cracked or less than 2 months after release.

From the top of my head: Humankind and Payday 3.

Your turn: name a single developer previously offering exclusively DRM free games (like Paradox CdProjekt or Larian) which decided to go back on their policy and implement DRM because they were losing sales to piracy in the past two years.