Humanity cant prevail against the machines.

[kostaskladianos]

As a hard core Terminator fan, and after some thoughts and desires from varius gamers about a more ''total war'' approche for this game in the future, my PERSONAL opinion is that humanity cant fought an all out war against the industrial power of the machines, so lore wise a ''total war'' approche for TDF-D is out of the scope. In all timelines of the myth, resistance, allways, have limited military power, both in quantity and quality, even as a unified force. No existance workforce, no enough food even. Resistance allways fought a guerrilla style struggle, with some decisive ''full attack'' skirmishes, in desperate conditions, with the goal to achieve some kind of ''strategic'' victory over the superiority of the machines. But the greatest weapon of the machines against humanity, is the fear of the unknown for every human, machines is total above on that for obvious reasons, i am even in doubt's, about the war final results in the ORIGINAL timeline, wherever this ORIGINAL timeline is placed, in the time-space oblivion theory of parallel dimensions....The romantic thoughts of movie scripts about a military ''happy end'' for the humanity, is, simply, romantic.

[Sooner535{UFIP}]

That is kind of why I feel like an entire campaign centered around scavenging and barely scraping by. So its open, the machines move units and armies around the board and your goal is to fight, you start the game with a small ragtag group and can find people, armor, vehicles, etc. Along the way. It should be extremely hard fought to get anywhere, oh you took out that convoy? Congrats, but you lost your 2 main vehicles and now your convoy is slow. Almost like a conquest type gamemode, but you should always feel like you are fighting against just something very superior, and if one of their main group catches you? Then you probably aren't making it out alive.

I love being the underdog, and I want a long way, let me feel like the underdog, let me BSG it up. FIght tooth and nail for every inch, and yes I can make it and win, but it will take every ounce of strategic planning and muscle to get it done. You should be able to win, but it should be nigh near impossible to pull off.

Something like that, if the game had even more units, weapons, vehicles, etc. Would be awesome in my opinion. No military right off the bat, no freely given tank. Let me fight for every grain of sand. Let me turn a car into a bomb because its my only option to fight heavy armor protecting convoys, and when I get that tank finally? Give me some more options to deck that thing out. And when I lose it? I will know how hard it is on me and the resistance. I feel like going that way would be awesome. But maybe that is just me lol.

[kostaskladianos]

Originally posted by Sooner535{UFIP}:

That is kind of why I feel like an entire campaign centered around scavenging and barely scraping by. So its open, the machines move units and armies around the board and your goal is to fight, you start the game with a small ragtag group and can find people, armor, vehicles, etc. Along the way. It should be extremely hard fought to get anywhere, oh you took out that convoy? Congrats, but you lost your 2 main vehicles and now your convoy is slow. Almost like a conquest type gamemode, but you should always feel like you are fighting against just something very superior, and if one of their main group catches you? Then you probably aren't making it out alive.

I love being the underdog, and I want a long way, let me feel like the underdog, let me BSG it up. FIght tooth and nail for every inch, and yes I can make it and win, but it will take every ounce of strategic planning and muscle to get it done. You should be able to win, but it should be nigh near impossible to pull off.

Something like that, if the game had even more units, weapons, vehicles, etc. Would be awesome in my opinion. No military right off the bat, no freely given tank. Let me fight for every grain of sand. Let me turn a car into a bomb because its my only option to fight heavy armor protecting convoys, and when I get that tank finally? Give me some more options to deck that thing out. And when I lose it? I will know how hard it is on me and the resistance. I feel like going that way would be awesome. But maybe that is just me lol.

In that way my friend yes, i am in....

[Booba]

Speaking in literal, as if it was real terms, then humanity doesn't stand any kind of chance at all against Legion. Disbelief has to be suspended for the sake of there even being a story. Why not take it a step further and allow for an RTS/tactics game of some scale?

Just imagine playing this game straight: against a Legion that doesn't ignore most of its forces on the map when the player squads bump into a stray swarm of scouts or pack of cyber puppies. Imagine if it actually gathered forces and threw them at you in a logical, overwhelming wave, instead of trickling them in piecemeal to feed your troops experience.

And then of course, you have the whole sugarcoated post-apocalypse to consider too: sunlight in a nuclear winter, people who aren't starving to death for want of the corporate supply chain they spent their whole lives dependent on, so on and so forth.

[hartTONE]

This is not quiet the case. Taking this universe as close to ours as possible and being literal about it, there are not enough nukes in existence to actually destroy all of humanities existing governments, industrial centers, military centers, and population centers. What would happen would be that it prioritizes the currently existing world powers, IE the United States China Russia and India. It would do this by engaging in a first strike against Russia and china who would retaliate against the united states. It would not waste its arsenal on the United States. This exchange will also cause a cascade that would result in Russia launching missiles into Europe, India likely into Pakistan or vise versa. In short, while the major powers are removed it only solved Legion's or Skynets's immediate threat.

It would not have enough munitions to engage the "global south." While they would be severely hurt due to the destruction of the global trade network, their industrial centers would survive, and as such be able to fuel a war front.

Which gets into the next problem legion would have to deal with. Logistics. It just blew up all of the industrial centers in its immediate area and would need to build new ones. This would take time. It would also need to mine for certain resources like rare earth minerals that are needed to make the chips in their heads. Thus making a campaign against them viable.

By denying those rare earths you could slow down legions manufacturing to the point where you can engage them in an all out conventional war. It would stay a conventional war too, as the materials to make WMDs are again, very industry intense and a very juicy target. one that is exploitable.

TL/DR

It is possible to engage Skynet/Legion in a traditional war and win. It may have had a devastating first strike, but it would need to build an incredible amount of infrastructure before it could expand its influence meaningfully.

[kostaskladianos]

Originally posted by Booba:

Speaking in literal, as if it was real terms, then humanity doesn't stand any kind of chance at all against Legion. Disbelief has to be suspended for the sake of there even being a story. Why not take it a step further and allow for an RTS/tactics game of some scale?

Just imagine playing this game straight: against a Legion that doesn't ignore most of its forces on the map when the player squads bump into a stray swarm of scouts or pack of cyber puppies. Imagine if it actually gathered forces and threw them at you in a logical, overwhelming wave, instead of trickling them in piecemeal to feed your troops experience.

And then of course, you have the whole sugarcoated post-apocalypse to consider too: sunlight in a nuclear winter, people who aren't starving to death for want of the corporate supply chain they spent their whole lives dependent on, so on and so forth.

Thank you.

[kostaskladianos]

Originally posted by hartTONE:

This is not quiet the case. Taking this universe as close to ours as possible and being literal about it, there are not enough nukes in existence to actually destroy all of humanities existing governments, industrial centers, military centers, and population centers. What would happen would be that it prioritizes the currently existing world powers, IE the United States China Russia and India. It would do this by engaging in a first strike against Russia and china who would retaliate against the united states. It would not waste its arsenal on the United States. This exchange will also cause a cascade that would result in Russia launching missiles into Europe, India likely into Pakistan or vise versa. In short, while the major powers are removed it only solved Legion's or Skynets's immediate threat.

It would not have enough munitions to engage the "global south." While they would be severely hurt due to the destruction of the global trade network, their industrial centers would survive, and as such be able to fuel a war front.

Which gets into the next problem legion would have to deal with. Logistics. It just blew up all of the industrial centers in its immediate area and would need to build new ones. This would take time. It would also need to mine for certain resources like rare earth minerals that are needed to make the chips in their heads. Thus making a campaign against them viable.

By denying those rare earths you could slow down legions manufacturing to the point where you can engage them in an all out conventional war. It would stay a conventional war too, as the materials to make WMDs are again, very industry intense and a very juicy target. one that is exploitable.

TL/DR

It is possible to engage Skynet/Legion in a traditional war and win. It may have had a devastating first strike, but it would need to build an incredible amount of infrastructure before it could expand its influence meaningfully.

Thank you.

[Thandrall]

Originally posted by hartTONE:

This is not quiet the case. Taking this universe as close to ours as possible and being literal about it, there are not enough nukes in existence to actually destroy all of humanities existing governments, industrial centers, military centers, and population centers. What would happen would be that it prioritizes the currently existing world powers, IE the United States China Russia and India. It would do this by engaging in a first strike against Russia and china who would retaliate against the united states. It would not waste its arsenal on the United States. This exchange will also cause a cascade that would result in Russia launching missiles into Europe, India likely into Pakistan or vise versa. In short, while the major powers are removed it only solved Legion's or Skynets's immediate threat.

It would not have enough munitions to engage the "global south." While they would be severely hurt due to the destruction of the global trade network, their industrial centers would survive, and as such be able to fuel a war front.

Which gets into the next problem legion would have to deal with. Logistics. It just blew up all of the industrial centers in its immediate area and would need to build new ones. This would take time. It would also need to mine for certain resources like rare earth minerals that are needed to make the chips in their heads. Thus making a campaign against them viable.

By denying those rare earths you could slow down legions manufacturing to the point where you can engage them in an all out conventional war. It would stay a conventional war too, as the materials to make WMDs are again, very industry intense and a very juicy target. one that is exploitable.

TL/DR

It is possible to engage Skynet/Legion in a traditional war and win. It may have had a devastating first strike, but it would need to build an incredible amount of infrastructure before it could expand its influence meaningfully.

I would think Legion would have thought that part though and nuked enough of the global south, which is way way less populated than the global north, and needs a lot less nuke because of that.

Secondly the time it would take for Legion to get its logistics up, make new factories (if it didn't think ahead and already had some isolated factories) and so forth would be a lot less than it would take for the rest of the world to gather and organise as well, since, as you said, the global trade network is gone, they would need to get that fixed before they can even think about going to war somewhere else. Robots would be able to build a lot quicker than humans ever would.

Plus, do they even know Legion is at fault? Or do they think America/China/Russia just went crazy. I'm not up with the lore on terminator so not sure about that question.

Having said all that, I would 100% be behind having a conquest style gameplay where we do fight legion back. That would be awesome to see, and even more so, the devs have said they are playing on working their way to the actual dark fate movie time, who's to say they don't work beyond that and show the ability to take over.

[REhorror]

Honestly, just give me infantries and cover.

There, humanity just prevails against machines.

Thanks the Lord that Skynet/Legion doesn't use chemical weapons or ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like that, it's just a fair fight, and a Terminator can be down easily with .50 cal.

[Thandrall]

Originally posted by REhorror:

Honestly, just give me infantries and cover.

There, humanity just prevails against machines.

Thanks the Lord that Skynet/Legion doesn't use chemical weapons or ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like that, it's just a fair fight, and a Terminator can be down easily with .50 cal.

Pssh, history has already shown that wave tactics are effective to a point, and since .50 cal weapons are not common at all, have fun with that.

[REhorror]

Originally posted by Thandrall:

Originally posted by REhorror:

Honestly, just give me infantries and cover.

There, humanity just prevails against machines.

Thanks the Lord that Skynet/Legion doesn't use chemical weapons or ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ like that, it's just a fair fight, and a Terminator can be down easily with .50 cal.

Pssh, history has already shown that wave tactics are effective to a point, and since .50 cal weapons are not common at all, have fun with that.

I mean, even if the American can't make it, the Russian/Chinese/Japan, etc. can.

Wave tactics can actually be devastating but so far Legion isn't as cunning as a humie commander, they literally march on open road to their objective and get ripped apart.

[14285714]

On the contrary, I think humanity has the upper hand in the war against the machines. At the time legion or skynet rebel against humanity, there are very little automated production system that can be take over by an AI. Be it factories or mines, they need human operators to function, and it takes a lot of time and resources to completely automated them, which is exactly what the machine lack in this war. The machine need not only to build itself an army, but also infrastructure to support an army. For humanity, on the other hand, we can make use of stockpiled or mothballed weapons and vehicles, or produce them in workshops. The quality might be lacking, but the quantity is enough to overwhelm the machines before they can expand their production capability.

[Zeky]

Machines also blew up their own industry, i mean, isn't like they run cobalt mines or tungsten refineries.
just shut down your brain on this one it's never explained how skynet/legion built all those robot factories.

[REhorror]

Also, in this game they are insanely hackable?

You can even hack factory to produce friendly machines.

[Booba]

Originally posted by Zeky:

Machines also blew up their own industry, i mean, isn't like they run cobalt mines or tungsten refineries.
just shut down your brain on this one it's never explained how skynet/legion built all those robot factories.

The game literally says that REV production was automated before the war. Anything a human can do with ten fingers and toes, a thinking machine super computer is going to do better...

[kostaskladianos]

Originally posted by Thandrall:

Originally posted by hartTONE:

This is not quiet the case. Taking this universe as close to ours as possible and being literal about it, there are not enough nukes in existence to actually destroy all of humanities existing governments, industrial centers, military centers, and population centers. What would happen would be that it prioritizes the currently existing world powers, IE the United States China Russia and India. It would do this by engaging in a first strike against Russia and china who would retaliate against the united states. It would not waste its arsenal on the United States. This exchange will also cause a cascade that would result in Russia launching missiles into Europe, India likely into Pakistan or vise versa. In short, while the major powers are removed it only solved Legion's or Skynets's immediate threat.

It would not have enough munitions to engage the "global south." While they would be severely hurt due to the destruction of the global trade network, their industrial centers would survive, and as such be able to fuel a war front.

Which gets into the next problem legion would have to deal with. Logistics. It just blew up all of the industrial centers in its immediate area and would need to build new ones. This would take time. It would also need to mine for certain resources like rare earth minerals that are needed to make the chips in their heads. Thus making a campaign against them viable.

By denying those rare earths you could slow down legions manufacturing to the point where you can engage them in an all out conventional war. It would stay a conventional war too, as the materials to make WMDs are again, very industry intense and a very juicy target. one that is exploitable.

TL/DR

It is possible to engage Skynet/Legion in a traditional war and win. It may have had a devastating first strike, but it would need to build an incredible amount of infrastructure before it could expand its influence meaningfully.

I would think Legion would have thought that part though and nuked enough of the global south, which is way way less populated than the global north, and needs a lot less nuke because of that.

Secondly the time it would take for Legion to get its logistics up, make new factories (if it didn't think ahead and already had some isolated factories) and so forth would be a lot less than it would take for the rest of the world to gather and organise as well, since, as you said, the global trade network is gone, they would need to get that fixed before they can even think about going to war somewhere else. Robots would be able to build a lot quicker than humans ever would.

Plus, do they even know Legion is at fault? Or do they think America/China/Russia just went crazy. I'm not up with the lore on terminator so not sure about that question.

Having said all that, I would 100% be behind having a conquest style gameplay where we do fight legion back. That would be awesome to see, and even more so, the devs have said they are playing on working their way to the actual dark fate movie time, who's to say they don't work beyond that and show the ability to take over.

Thank you.