Doser + heavy platform = discount abrams?

[HeathenSW]

I mean it has the same firepower and seemingly the same durability, especially if you have steel armor on the platform as well. Slow af, sure, but it's like 2k less in supplies and you can make it a howitzer, what's not to love. Anybody tested how it performs?

Running away from Abiquiu means some creative stuff is needed badly. At least if you know you will run this time you can unequip everything from your founder units to give it to your new Movement units, like rifles and smgs that you kinda need all the time.

[fealen]

It's pretty fun! especially with atgm's on the doser ( or truck which is a bit faster). You can also load inf in it that shoot from the sides and its a great mobile inf ammo stock.

[Rin Palora]

I mean... it doesn't have the same firepower. The dozer + platform has more ^^, it can get Heavy Plasma Cannon, Mounted Heavy Plasma machine gun and something else (TOW, .50cal. minigun, another Heavy Plasma MG etc) while the Abrams can only get the Heavy Plasma Cannon and Mounted Heavy Plasma. Basically the Platform alone has the same firepower as the Abrams while the dozer adds another weapon on top.

Imo even fully upgrade with armor the Dozer and platform seem to get damaged more often than the Abrams and if the trailer gets chassis damaged it'll disconnect and waste time "deploying" rather than shooting. The Abrams can also get APS.

Abrams wins in survivability, speed, deployment space (you need 1 less vehicle slot and 1 less squad slot when deploying tho it rarely matters).

Dozer + Platform wins in firepower, supply cost, both for the vehicles (cheaper by 1000, 3500 total vs 5500) as well as for crew if we're going for minimum expenditure (supply perk tank crew is 640, dozer + platform can be crewed by 2 sniper squads at 400 total). Tho if you are optimizing for combat efficiency the Abrams crew is cheaper to run, the Dozer at least needs a driver for speed and fire rate which is 480 with supply perk, 960 if you want both to fire faster (2 drivers).

Supposedly the Platform is less accurate when not deployed, how less accurate than an Abrams it is, if at all, I couldn't tell you.
Dozer has less view range than the Abrams... but the Platform has the same view range... no idea how much that actually matters in combat.
Also Dozer has slightly more off-road capabilities, 1 extra bar, than the Abrams. Probably doesn't matter.

Why not both tho?

P.S. The real Movement secret weapon is the van ^^. Cheaper to operate than the Founder Humvee, does the same things, uses the same weapons (once you buy the upgrade for it), has more ammo inside, tows the same things, can carry 10 troops that can supposedly fire out of it. Both are a lot faster and more mobile off road than the Cartel Humvee... that might have better protection.

[Crystal meth enthusiast]

Dozer with all upgrades is slow and oneshoted.

[HeathenSW]

Originally posted by fealen:

It's pretty fun! especially with atgm's on the doser ( or truck which is a bit faster). You can also load inf in it that shoot from the sides and its a great mobile inf ammo stock.

You sure you are talking about heavy platform? Armored transport that can have light turret and mg slot and 24 spaces inside is cool tho, love it with my whole heart :D But I don't think that people can shoot from inside of dozer of heavy platform.

Originally posted by Crystal meth enthusiast:

Dozer with all upgrades is slow and oneshoted.

It is if it's thrown into something difficult that will leave abrams/breadly heavily damaged as well. For instance in the bridge mission it could easily hold one bridge by itself (well, with armoured carrier towed by it) for me, loosing 2 people and retreating just before the last two waves due to damage, but it wasn't oneshotted. On the Tortuga it was able to hold the main square for some time, while I mopped some buildings around it and Integrators camp with my main forces.
Just need some assistant in form of snipers to counter those heavy weapon teams or better counter light/medium vehicles and their crews. If it has to go against legion tank it's dead, yeah, but undamaged it can tough out atgm shot at least.

Originally posted by Rin Palora:

I mean... it doesn't have the same firepower. The dozer + platform has more ^^, it can get Heavy Plasma Cannon, Mounted Heavy Plasma machine gun and something else (TOW, .50cal. minigun, another Heavy Plasma MG etc) while the Abrams can only get the Heavy Plasma Cannon and Mounted Heavy Plasma. Basically the Platform alone has the same firepower as the Abrams while the dozer adds another weapon on top.

Imo even fully upgrade with armor the Dozer and platform seem to get damaged more often than the Abrams and if the trailer gets chassis damaged it'll disconnect and waste time "deploying" rather than shooting. The Abrams can also get APS.

Abrams wins in survivability, speed, deployment space (you need 1 less vehicle slot and 1 less squad slot when deploying tho it rarely matters).

Dozer + Platform wins in firepower, supply cost, both for the vehicles (cheaper by 1000, 3500 total vs 5500) as well as for crew if we're going for minimum expenditure (supply perk tank crew is 640, dozer + platform can be crewed by 2 sniper squads at 400 total). Tho if you are optimizing for combat efficiency the Abrams crew is cheaper to run, the Dozer at least needs a driver for speed and fire rate which is 480 with supply perk, 960 if you want both to fire faster (2 drivers).

Supposedly the Platform is less accurate when not deployed, how less accurate than an Abrams it is, if at all, I couldn't tell you.
Dozer has less view range than the Abrams... but the Platform has the same view range... no idea how much that actually matters in combat.
Also Dozer has slightly more off-road capabilities, 1 extra bar, than the Abrams. Probably doesn't matter.

Why not both tho?

P.S. The real Movement secret weapon is the van ^^. Cheaper to operate than the Founder Humvee, does the same things, uses the same weapons (once you buy the upgrade for it), has more ammo inside, tows the same things, can carry 10 troops that can supposedly fire out of it. Both are a lot faster and more mobile off road than the Cartel Humvee... that might have better protection.

I just want to do a playthrough where I run from Abiquiu and that means no abrams :D And no driver probably, since I want to take rangers, atgm and 2 tank crews with me, while leaving everyone else.

Honestly I slept on humble Van for a long time and kinda like it now as well. Especially because of that passenger space - 10 allows to move militia with snipers or 7/8 militia with heavy weapons and that can hold a nice chokepoint.

Didn't make actual driver calculations, thank you for the heads up. Still platform seems just as accurate as abrams. For storming fortified areas there are always Bradleys, infantry and howitzers, Abrams is not THAT needed honestly.

[zpc]

It's a mood point I'd say - you should have both in your army. The dozer is - in terms of deployment - available before the Abrams is. So - what good can an Abrams do if it isn't allowed to be deployed yet?

A dozer in front of the armored trailer is better as having a normal truck. Same is when deciding what to tow the heavy plattforms with. Leave the trucks for the supply I'd say - those have to be moved around quickly, and I woulnd't recommend using dozers for that ^^

[Rin Palora]

I'm pretty sure the Heavy Platform tho can only be deployed at the same stage as the Abrams.

But that was the point, the Heavy Platform alone is just an immobile Abrams.

It is fair to say that you could get the Dozer out or with another trailer earlier. And it does seem to be a bit more tanky than other vehicles.

[Rin Palora]

Originally posted by HeathenSW:

I just want to do a playthrough where I run from Abiquiu and that means no abrams :D And no driver probably, since I want to take rangers, atgm and 2 tank crews with me, while leaving everyone else.

I mean does it matter at that point?
You won't have an Abrams so you'd better make the Dozer + Heavy platform combo work. :D
It just takes a while before you can get them, and a while before you can get them to be armored enough to act as an MBT (need to find the armor upgrades).

Not that I found the Abrams that vital, nice to have sure, but never vital. The only time it really helped was hitting Legion tanks in the side at the Santa Fe outskirts and even then ATGM's teams, TOW or the Plasma recoilless on a van would probably have done it too.

Most of the time by the time you can pull either the Abrams or the Heavy Platform out the big issues you face is already resolved and all that is left is the final push.

But as others have said the Dozer + Troop trailer can do a pretty good tank job earlier anyway.

If anything given that it's not an ultra rare unit and you can get quite a lot of dozers and heavy platforms in the game you can be a bit more cavalier with it without restarting if does get blown up.

Hell I think at Oklahoma you could have at least 6 of them if you can manage your supply well, and that's something I would like to see.

...

A dozer + trailer only force sounds like an interesting way to play.

[Darth Glorious]

The heavy platform needs to be deployed to be active. I think tthat the armoured trailer using recoiless gun and minigun is better combo for Dozers. With 2 recoiless guns and a minigun, or one recoiless guns, one 40mm M19 and the minigun, it can destroy everything throw as you

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

The Heavy Platform doesn't have the mobility to really deal with Legion Tanks very well.

The best way to take them out I've found, other than C4, is to juke them out a bit with multiple vehicles and squads. Have the Abrams behind cover, then attack the tank from the side or rear with another unit that pulls back into cover before the tank can aim at them. While the tank is aiming the other way, move the Abrams out of cover and take the shot. Side hits on Legion Tanks almost always destroy the gun, so it's an easy kill after that.

[zpc]

Originally posted by =яενєηąŋŧ=:

The Heavy Platform doesn't have the mobility to really deal with Legion Tanks very well.

The best way to take them out I've found, other than C4, is to juke them out a bit with multiple vehicles and squads. Have the Abrams behind cover, then attack the tank from the side or rear with another unit that pulls back into cover before the tank can aim at them. While the tank is aiming the other way, move the Abrams out of cover and take the shot. Side hits on Legion Tanks almost always destroy the gun, so it's an easy kill after that.

Yeah, units always have to be conceiled behind cover / around the corner - no matter how tanky they are. Also every defense position has to have some sort of cross fire setup to hammer the enemy from all angles.

The thing about the heavy platforms is - they are available pretty early and in higher quantity like the Abrams. In Oklahoma I had 4 small bases binding enemy spawns - and was really glad to have 2 heavy platforms in addition to my 2 Abrams (one I got there pretty early). While Oklahoma is the point where more Abrams become available - you still have to reach them. And with the Bradleys out doing mission objectives someone has to keep the lights on at home =)

[SirShreds]

Originally posted by Rin Palora:

P.S. The real Movement secret weapon is the van ^^. Cheaper to operate than the Founder Humvee, does the same things, uses the same weapons (once you buy the upgrade for it), has more ammo inside, tows the same things, can carry 10 troops that can supposedly fire out of it. Both are a lot faster and more mobile off road than the Cartel Humvee... that might have better protection.

This right here! Slept on the Astro Van in my first (5 mission) playthrough, until I started my second playthrough and being more efficient with troops and supply.

Humvee is cool and fast sure, but this game doesn't really play well trying to rush anything. Its honestly jsut a supply trap.
The Techie trucks IMO look cooler than humvees and for all intents and purposes they're essentially the same unit. But it costs 200(ish)? less supply, and if you really want armour its easier to find early on (Taos costs extra supply if you want to go more than once for humvees and the steel armour is more of a hindrance than a boon since you need offroad capabilities). Though I strongly believe armour on light vics is a complete waste of resources, as you usually want your vehicles to be fast so they can move people and platforms around. Armour on lights is a trap, with Cartel armour being situational at best, having a few for defensive positions is okay but other than that they are a waste.

The Van is just the better version across the board, costs the same as a Techie, provides all of the same roles on top of being a pretty useful troop carrier and having more supply for its passengers as well. The armour seems to be less common but again...not really needed.

I'd also say don't sleep on the Marauder trucks (blue ones with fabric covering the bed, I don't know if you can mount guns on them (there's one in Tortuga that has a weapon mount in the upgrade slot but doesn't actually have any weapon.) They are great for providing supply to your infantry with that whopping 3000 internal supply (half of the dedicated cartel supply trucks.) I treat them with as much care as my supply trailers because I dedicate them to my ATGM, heavy weapon, and rocket squads. Infantry can also allegedly [\i] fire from inside as well.

[Thandrall]

Honestly, I'm starting to get to the point I think it's better to retreat from abiquiu, purely because of the sheer amount of troops you can get at the outpost, giving you a massive glut of goodwill when you sell, you can just buy all the upgrades from the get go with ease. Sure the Abrams is great to have, but it's not make or break, and can be worked around. You even get a fully kitted out armoured personel carrier from that mission, a normal one, too many trailers, 3 arty platforms, like a dozen normal platforms, 3 more main tractors, and just troops galore...

[HeathenSW]

Originally posted by Thandrall:

Honestly, I'm starting to get to the point I think it's better to retreat from abiquiu, purely because of the sheer amount of troops you can get at the outpost, giving you a massive glut of goodwill when you sell, you can just buy all the upgrades from the get go with ease. Sure the Abrams is great to have, but it's not make or break, and can be worked around. You even get a fully kitted out armoured personel carrier from that mission, a normal one, too many trailers, 3 arty platforms, like a dozen normal platforms, 3 more main tractors, and just troops galore...

Honestly thinking the same. The only precious units from the Haven survivors are atgm, two tank crews and maybe rangers. Infantry is kinda squishy and if 3 of them die you'll probably never use them for this map, plus they are pricy as gold - militia+heavy weapons team or militia+snipers is less supply for more flexibility and staying power.
Abrams sure is cool, but Bradleys and artillery is where the meat is. I'm surprised how much you get from the movement base as well. Also it seems like there are no consequences in attacking Movement base or staying neutral - if you stay neutral you can't loot the Field there and vehicles there can get you pretty nice money.

Originally posted by SirShreds:

The Techie trucks IMO look cooler than humvees and for all intents and purposes they're essentially the same unit. But it costs 200(ish)? less supply, and if you really want armour its easier to find early on (Taos costs extra supply if you want to go more than once for humvees and the steel armour is more of a hindrance than a boon since you need offroad capabilities). Though I strongly believe armour on light vics is a complete waste of resources, as you usually want your vehicles to be fast so they can move people and platforms around. Armour on lights is a trap, with Cartel armour being situational at best, having a few for defensive positions is okay but other than that they are a waste.

The Van is just the better version across the board, costs the same as a Techie, provides all of the same roles on top of being a pretty useful troop carrier and having more supply for its passengers as well. The armour seems to be less common but again...not really needed.

I'd also say don't sleep on the Marauder trucks (blue ones with fabric covering the bed, I don't know if you can mount guns on them (there's one in Tortuga that has a weapon mount in the upgrade slot but doesn't actually have any weapon.) They are great for providing supply to your infantry with that whopping 3000 internal supply (half of the dedicated cartel supply trucks.) I treat them with as much care as my supply trailers because I dedicate them to my ATGM, heavy weapon, and rocket squads. Infantry can also allegedly fire from inside as well.

Completely agreed on everything here. I used mostly techies and humvees, never even looking at the vans and the trucks until I dunno, 6th restart or so.

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Nope, the dozer/armored trailer counts as armored transport so it comes before the abrams but it's rather soft.
In the last cartel mission, it's more like a strong building than anything else but i like the options