Armour values and what changes with what armour

[HeathenSW]

So I skimmed through values in the game files and it may be interesting. I'll not shower you with the values for each and extra part of the vehicle, but the base values can help you get the picture. For the values not here just remember that tracks/tires are the least armoured part of the vehicle, with engine/turret spot being second in vulnurability.

"13" means unarmoured basically and can be freely damaged by anything, not offering any protection.

A couple of interesting things before we start:
- Heavy weapons platform transfers to tank armour in calculations when you equip it with Steel or Steel Cage armour. Base one and junk one are just a normal vehicle. Now Tank armour type is quite a lot more durable, the last table in this post shows that, so it'll make heavy platforms much more survivable.

- Armoured carrier trailer and Dozer gain "thick" armour when equiped with Cage armour. That means that their armour gets thinner twice slower from HE damage. Shame that it does not change a thing agaist plasma.

- Dozer is about the same armour that Bradley has overall (upgraded of course), so if you tow Heavy platform with it it'll fit a role somewhere in-between Bradley and Abrams in terms of firepower/durability, which is cool.

- Dozer also has a huge blade in front of it that is heavily armoured right of the bat (tank armour resistances) and it covers about 75% of the front direction, so most of the frontal hits will hit it and not the cabin. That makes it pretty good in baiting shots.

- Tecnical and Van have quite some different armour for different modules that's difficult to generalize, but they are overall less armoured than humvees.

- Every Legion vehicle is just steel, nothing more armoured exists. Just the armour values are through the roof with the tanks - they have 410 front armour on the guns and body, and 180 armour from the sides. Their tracks have quite a bit less armour (180 front and 120 sides) and their back is same 87 armour as Abrams here. So DO NOT shoot at their front if you want to kill them fast.

- If the armour has 111 value or more it's not going to be penetrated by standard spider/bradley/light platform gun (25mm AP). It will still be thinned with successful shots, so after the first hit by them it can still pass damage through. This might be good to know.

These are for our main battleforce - Bradley and Abrams (plus Sherman, Founder artillery piece, and Cartel Tank because why not). Abrams is very special with quite the different values for some parts, so it has more than one line here:

Name	Health	Sides armor	Forward armor	Back armor
Bradley	600	90	180	82
Bradley Junk	660	111	223	82
Bradley Carbon	600	130	260	82
Bradley Ceramic	630	100	200	82
Bradley ERA	600	90	180	82
Abrams	800	120	410	87
Abrams Junk	900	132	450	87
Abrams Junk Turret (the tower for the main cannon)	1100	180	499	87
Abrams Carbon	800	155	530	87
Abrams Carbon Turret (the tower for the main cannon)	800	211	620	87
Abrams Ceramic	850	126	430	87
Abrams Ceramic Turret (the tower for the main cannon)	900	180	490	90
Sherman	600	90	200	85
Paladin	450	40	50	40
Panhard (Cartel Tank)	450	40	85	40

And this is for M113 APC and Stryker since they are quite similar and it's hard to see what's better:

Name	Health	Sides armor	Forward armor	Back armor
M113	450	40	50	40
Stryker	450	50	82	40
M113 Junk	500	40	59	40
Stryker Junk	500	59	100	40
M113 Carbon	450	59	82	40
Stryker Carbon	450	82	120	50
M113 Ceramic	480	40	59	40
Stryker Ceramic	475	55	94	50

"Battlewagon" - dozer and passenger carrier. While dozer is the only "tank" class vehicle that Movement has, the carrier is a vehicle. I just usually use them in this combo, so it fits to see how it is armoured in one place.

For dozer it's also important to remember that it has unchanging blade in front of it that will not update it's armour with whatever you install on the cabin, so most of these numbers are for cabin. Plus that blade has tank base armour, not vehicle one, so it's pretty resistant to everything. Honestly dozer can be written as always having 210 forward tank armour due to that, but still - we are upgrading the everything else and not the blade with armour upgrades.

Name	Health	Sides armor	Forward armor	Back armor
Dozer Tracks/Blade	300	30	210	20
Dozer	450	25	20	25
Dozer Junk	500	40	40	40
Dozer Steel	660	111	223	85
Dozer Steel Cage	660	111	223	85
Armored carrier trailer	450	82	82	82
Armored carrier trailer Junk	500	100	100	100
Armored carrier trailer Steel	660	223	223	223
Armored carrier trailer Steel Cage	660	223	223	223

Light vehicles, support and platforms:

Name	Health	Sides armor	Forward armor	Back armor
Humvee	350	25	50	25
Humvee (engine)	350	25	40	25
Humvee Junk	400	25	50	25
Humvee Steel	430	40	50	25
Humvee Cartel	450	40	50	40
Humvee Cartel (engine)	450	40	50	25
Technical	200	13	13	13
Technical Junk	250/350 (engine/back half)	13/25	40	25
Technical Steel	350	40	40	13
Van	200	13	13	13
Van Junk	250/350 (engine/back half)	13/25	40	25
Van Steel	350	40	40	40
Truck	200	13	13	13
Truck Cartel	400	40	50	25
Main Tractor	200	13	13	13
Main Tractor Junk	250	25	25	25
Main Tractor Steel	430	50	82	40
Main Tractor Steel Cage	430	50	82	40
Light weapon platform	350	40	50	30
Light weapon platform Junk	400	40	50	30
Heavy weapon platform	600	90	180	82
Heavy weapon platform Junk	660	111	223	82
Heavy weapon platform Steel	720	170	235	87
Heavy weapon platform Steel Cage	720	170	235	87

Very important to understand that different armours have different resists. So for vehicles (everything we can use except Abrams at all points, Dozer and Heavy platform when equipped with steel and steel cage) it's like this:

Name	Ap resist	Cumulative resist	Plasma resist
Base/cartel/junk	0.69	1.5	0.69
Carbon	0.69	1.5	0.47
Ceramic	0.69	3.99	4.1
Steel Cage	0.69	3.39	2.9
ERA	0.69	6.24	2.9

Of note is that there exists "thick" ceramic and ERA armour that are only applied to Bradleys forward armour. But it seems bugged, since Thick ceramic has not 3.99 cumulative resist but 3.39, while thick ERA has cumulative resist (like TOWs and such) of 3.99, while not thick armour has it of 6.24.
Devs corrected this assumption of mine and this is intended, to work better with added thickness.

For tanks it's a bit different. Seems like ERA in equations exists for Integrator tanks only:

Name	Ap resist	Cumulative resist	Plasma resist
Base/junk	1	1.5	1
Carbon	1	1.5	0.77
Ceramic	1	3.39	4.1
Steel Cage	1	3.39	2.9
ERA	1	1.9	1.9

SO in total (partialy a copy-paste from my own post in different thread):

Carbon is TERRIBLE against plasma, it's around the same levels as not having any armour upgrade at all against it. Take that base Styker has front armour of 82 - if we add Carbon armor there it'll become 120, but if we shoot at it with plasma it'll register as being only 56 (120 front armour value*0.47 plasma resist modifier), due to it being weak to plasma. So instead of mitigation 120 damage form a plasma shot it will only mitigate puny 56 (56.4 to be precise). While if Stryker had base armour it'd mitigate 56.58.

That also mean that any vehicle that has Carbon armour will be lit up in an instant by Legion basically, since their health can't withstand the damage of Legion tank - it hits for 750 plasma damage plus 110 explosive damage in a splash around the point of impact. 56 armour means that it'll hit for 694 damage instead and said Stryker with carbon armour has only 450 HP, thus getting one-shotted.

In comparison if that Stryker had Ceramic armour it'd mitigate up to 385 damage (94 front armour value*4.1 plasma resist modifier), letting only 365 damage to actualy hurt Stryker HP. And since Ceramic health is 475 it'll leave Stryker barely alive, but alive.

Mind that it applies for "vehicles" that have carbon. Abrams is not a "vehicle" - it's a "tank" in terms of armour, so carbon can still be counted as upgrade over junk and base armour for it.

Carbon would not be that bad if we have fought more HE equiped enemies (Cartel, cough-cough), but we'll mostly be fighting against plasma, so it's not that great.

Junk armour is actually not bad, it's better than the default one for every vehicle except fast moving ones, since it tanks the movement speed pretty hard.

And Ceramics/ERA are the best in slot.

Thanks for corrections:
Ook - Dispenser of Liber-Tea
dieman

More structured, with info about how speed changes, the data on legion/integrators and damage thresholds:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3192067219

[Ook Oook]

You cant use the base module for the rear for a lot of vehicles because thats either the engine or cargo compartment, meaning the rear of the base actually does nothing. You can tell for certain by looking at "influenced_sides"

So for example, the abrams rear engine is 87 and the rear turret is 90, meaning it takes loads of damage to the rear, or even to the front if your turret is facing the wrong way.

[HeathenSW]

They are usualy about the same values. Base/cargo/engine, I mean.
Abrams is more of an exception, need to correct the post then. Thank you for correcting me.

[blackhawkdown48]

The more I read this the more confused I am lol... I guess this means its better to have junk armor than carbon armor for later missions, (all of my abrams had carbon armor in Galveston)

[HeathenSW]

Originally posted by blackhawkdown48:

The more I read this the more confused I am lol... I guess this means its better to have junk armor than carbon armor for later missions, (all of my abrams had carbon armor in Galveston)

Yeah, would've been much better to have all this in game, more refined and with logical UI everywhere around. I still am not sure why it was not included in the Encyclopedia.
At least you are getting close to the endgame and there's always another playthrough :D

[blackhawkdown48]

Originally posted by HeathenSW:

Originally posted by blackhawkdown48:

The more I read this the more confused I am lol... I guess this means its better to have junk armor than carbon armor for later missions, (all of my abrams had carbon armor in Galveston)

Yeah, would've been much better to have all this in game, more refined and with logical UI everywhere around. I still am not sure why it was not included in the Encyclopedia.
At least you are getting close to the endgame and there's always another playthrough :D

Im onto my fifth playthrough....

[HeathenSW]

Originally posted by blackhawkdown48:

Originally posted by HeathenSW:

Yeah, would've been much better to have all this in game, more refined and with logical UI everywhere around. I still am not sure why it was not included in the Encyclopedia.
At least you are getting close to the endgame and there's always another playthrough :D

Im onto my fifth playthrough....

Oh. Well. The more you know then :D
I'm on my fourth, but I always drop around Fort Worth to try and play everything again with more efficiency, so never actually finished.

[Falcon_BR]

Just a clarification about carbon armor.
It doesn't decrease movement speed and acceleration. (Need checking)
If you do the math, with 0,77 effectiveness on Abrams, they have the same values against plasma them a normal Abrams.
You can get in taos for the striker and m113, it will help them against cartel, a lot, a striker with carbon, plasma machine-gun and smoke will help a lot vs cartel.
You can get for the Abrams after the cartel missions, you will be fighting legion, there is one carbon armor and one ceramic armor, and you have two Abrams, get one for each. The Frontline will get the ceramic and APS, the suport one will get carbon to move faster to help engage after the first one start engaging.
In a perfect world, both would have ceramic.
Plasma weapons are 30% of legion weapons, ceramic will help against the other 70% of legion weapons.

[Falcon_BR]

Also, pro tip, if you are going to exchange your vehicle armor, check the market first, if you want to change your carbon Bradley with a ceramic Bradley, in the integrator camp you just sell you old Bradley for full price and you get your carbon armor money back, buy a new Bradley and equip it with ceramic armor. Junk armor is just 100, bur valid if you want to min/max

[HeathenSW]

Yeah, one of the ways to make the most of it is exactly that - installing carbon on everything for the Cartel and then either replacing a vehilce like you adviced or replacing the armour for more plasma resistant. On lower than Hard difficulties I'm not so sure if that is even necessary, since added thickness from Carbon can still increase Abrams duarbility nicely.

Originally posted by Falcon_BR:

Just a clarification about carbon armor.
It doesn't decrease movement speed and acceleration. (Need checking)

It does, but not as much of a decrease as with the other armours. Carbon is applicable to Stryker, M113, Abrams and Bradley - any other armour decreases movement speed, acceleration, deceleration by 20%, while Carbon decreases them only by 10%. So yeah, speed is a factor, if you rely on fast response.

For other vehicles it's more difficult, since they do not have Carbon avaliable to them. Basically Junk armour is a 20% decrease from the base speed value, Steel armour is a 30% decrease, Cartel Steel 40% decrease. Cage Steel differs a bit - for Dozer it's 40% decrease, for Main Tractor it's 50% decrease, for passenger trailer it's 60% decrease,

[wei270]

it would be really nice if you can also post weapon stats

[HeathenSW]

Originally posted by wei270:

it would be really nice if you can also post weapon stats

That's a more difficult, since they are all over different files it seems, tied to ammo used and not the actual gun, have multiple damage types at the same time and some are also tied to your squads leveling up. Plus some of my speculations, since I don't know what some things mean. I'll try though, would be also cool to have on hand.

For instance, here are three assault rifles you can get - the damage depends on the level of the shooter squad. Plasma rifle looks like this in the game files, for instance:

lvl 0 - therm18 0.5-0.6:he10 fl7

Name	AP damage	Damage to humans	Plasma damage	Explosive damage
5.56 ammo	lvl 0 - 5 lvl 1 - 5 lvl 2 - 5 lvl 3 - 6 lvl 4 - 6 lvl 5 - 6	lvl 0 - 5 lvl 1 - 9 lvl 2 - 14 lvl 3 - 19 lvl 4 - 24 lvl 5 - 29	-	-
6.8 ammo	lvl 0 - 15 lvl 1 - 16 lvl 2 - 16 lvl 3 - 16 lvl 4 - 17 lvl 5 - 17	lvl 0 - 5 lvl 1 - 8 lvl 2 - 13 lvl 3 - 18 lvl 4 - 23 lvl 5 - 28	-	-
Plasma rifle ammo	-	lvl 0 - 7 lvl 1 - 12 lvl 2 - 17 lvl 3 - 22 lvl 4 - 27 lvl 5 - 32	lvl 0 - 18 lvl 1 - 18 lvl 2 - 18 lvl 3 - 18 lvl 4 - 18 lvl 5 - 18	(splash radius 0.5-0.6) lvl 0 - 10 lvl 1 - 10 lvl 2 - 10 lvl 3 - 10 lvl 4 - 10 lvl 5 - 10

Plasma gets interesting - AP is no more, instead we get Therm that is plasma damage, "0.5-0.6" is, I assume, the range around the impact point where HE damage splashes, FL is again damage to humans.

Some ammo types do not depend on levels at all:
.50cal MG (on vehicles or heavy weapons squad) - ap28 fl40
.50cal Sniper (Barret) - ap28 fl200
Plasma recoilless - therm500 1-3:he70 0.5-1:fl30
ATGM anti tank rocket - cm750 1-4:he70 1-8:fr40 1:fl50

ATMG is a nightmare to decipher. CM is cumulative damage, 1-4 range of the HE damage splash, 1-8 range of the fragmentation damage splash and FL is again damage to humans.

Overall the golden rule seems to be to give your most advanced weapons to most experienced soldiers since top of the line 6.8 ammo assault rifle will do little in the hands of lvl 0 militia, but will pack a punch in the hands of lvl 4 one.

[Falcon_BR]

Another clarification about carbon armor.
The speed debuff is confirmed to be 10%, the smallest comparing with the others.
THERE IS NOT AN INCREASE IN PLASMA DAMAGE FOR ANY VEHICLE WITH CARBON!
I did the math with the tanks, on this topic, to confirm there is not an increase damage on tanks.
Now I did the math with armored vehicles, the m113 and the strikes.
They still do not take extra damage, the decrease in plasma resistance is to keep the armor the same from both original and upgraded to carbon.
Striker, forward default armor: 82
Plasma multi: 0.69
End value: 56.58

Striker, foward carbon armor: 120
Plasma multi: 0.47
End Valeu: 56.4

Just like the abbrams, they keep the same original armor, and like I said, plasma attacks are only 30% of legion weapons, it is not worth changing to junk armor because of it, but upgrade to ceramic as soon as you can.

On the first week of release the devs were talking on this forum, and they did the abrams math to me, and said it applies to all vehicles in carbon armor.

\Steam\steamapps\common\Terminator Dark Fate - Defiance/basis.pak/scripts/species/armor_types

[wei270]

thx for all the info here,
That is really interesting is that if you have a cartel humvee, which has 20 more hp than regular armored humvee, they can actually surrive a hit from plamsa reconilless if they are luck

with hp and armor just equal to 500

and it seems if your infantry is low on experience plasma rifle is better.
but once they have higher veterence, the advance rifle is a actually an alternative.

the weapon i am most curious about is actually

the 3 different rpgs
rpg 7
shaw
and the wierd homing one
do they all do the same damage?

because rpg 7 seems to have a better rate of fire and with the extra ammo, you can just put so much fire power out at the right situation, i end up having a really hard time decideing what to take.

and then there is the homing one where we know next to nothing other than it has guidence system and it has shorter range.
and because it is a guidence missile its velocity is actually lower leaving you units more vulnerable

[HeathenSW]

Originally posted by wei270:

thx for all the info here,
That is really interesting is that if you have a cartel humvee, which has 20 more hp than regular armored humvee, they can actually surrive a hit from plamsa reconilless if they are luck

with hp and armor just equal to 500

and it seems if your infantry is low on experience plasma rifle is better.
but once they have higher veterence, the advance rifle is a actually an alternative.

the weapon i am most curious about is actually

the 3 different rpgs
rpg 7
shaw
and the wierd homing one
do they all do the same damage?

because rpg 7 seems to have a better rate of fire and with the extra ammo, you can just put so much fire power out at the right situation, i end up having a really hard time decideing what to take.

and then there is the homing one where we know next to nothing other than it has guidence system and it has shorter range.
and because it is a guidence missile its velocity is actually lower leaving you units more vulnerable

Name	Cumulative damage	AP damage	Damage to humans	Explosive damage	Fragmentation damage
M72 Law HEAT (default launcher)	400	30	(spalsh of 0.5) 50	-	-
M72 Law HE (default launcher)	-	44	(splash of 0.5-1) 60	(splash of 1-3) 60	(splash of 1-3) 60
RPG-7 HEAT	lvl 0 - 400 lvl 1 - 405 lvl 2 - 410 lvl 3 - 430 lvl 4 - 460 lvl 5 - 499	30	(splash of 0.5) 50	-	-
RPG-7 HE	-	44	(splash of 0.5-1) 70	(splash of 1-3) 70	(splash of 1-6) 70
SMAW HEAT	lvl 0 - 400 lvl 1 - 405 lvl 2 - 410 lvl 3 - 430 lvl 4 - 460 lvl 5 - 499	30	(splash of 0.5) 50	-	-
SMAW HE	-	44	(splash of 0.5-1) 70	(splash of 1-3) 70	(splash of 1-6) 70
SRAW HEAT	lvl 0 - 500 lvl 1 - 505 lvl 2 - 510 lvl 3 - 530 lvl 4 - 560 lvl 5 - 599	90	(splash of 0.5) 50	30	(splash of 1-4) 40
SRAW HE	-	44	(splash of 1-2) 50	(splash of 2-4) 120	(splash of 3-10) 140
ATGM AT	750	-	(splash of 1) 50	(splash of 1-4) 70	(splash of 1-8) 40
ATGM AA	-	-	-	70	(splash of 1-2) 350

Something like that. Just for the sake of info completeness added ATGM damages as well.

Mind that splash radius is kinda my speculation, but seems very logical - in game files it's like "3-10:140fr" that I translated as "140 Fragmentation damage in a splash radius of 3-10". HEAT rockets are what you have by default and HE you unlock in addition to them when taking a perk.

So RPG is exactly similar in damage to SMAW, but SMAW has 10 more range basically. The SRAW launcher is quite a bit more powerful, real close to ATGM numbers, plus it has autoaim to some extend and has the same range as RPGs.

Interesting that Cumulative damage increases a tiny bit with leveling up. So again - give the best launchers to the most leveled up troops if you want them to deal the most damage.




Also one cute little random detail - rev terminators are classified as light vehicle, thus they will get targeted by AT rockets and ATGMs. They have health of 350, so right around your ordinary humvee.
Plus they have same camo value as rangers/guerillas/sharpshooters, so imagine 3 real stealthy humvees with plasma MGs. Terrifying.

[Thandrall]

Originally posted by wei270:

thx for all the info here,
That is really interesting is that if you have a cartel humvee, which has 20 more hp than regular armored humvee, they can actually surrive a hit from plamsa reconilless if they are luck

with hp and armor just equal to 500

and it seems if your infantry is low on experience plasma rifle is better.
but once they have higher veterence, the advance rifle is a actually an alternative.

the weapon i am most curious about is actually

the 3 different rpgs
rpg 7
shaw
and the wierd homing one
do they all do the same damage?

because rpg 7 seems to have a better rate of fire and with the extra ammo, you can just put so much fire power out at the right situation, i end up having a really hard time decideing what to take.

and then there is the homing one where we know next to nothing other than it has guidence system and it has shorter range.
and because it is a guidence missile its velocity is actually lower leaving you units more vulnerable

Each upgrade with the RPG's also increase their damage. RPG's usually won't 1 hit a HC platform, where as a SMAW will. Plus it does have increased ranged which can really make a difference. The SRAW I have no idea where it lands, but everything it has hit outside of a tank has died in one hit so far. It is definitely nice if you have the HE rockets as well. That being said, having such a low ammo count and the long reload really does hurt it. I would say SMAW's over RPGs, with like a 1-4 ratio of SRAW's to SMAW's in the end.