How many companies does DEI have to ruin before people wise up and stop hiring them?

[Fighting-Priest]

It's strange that they keep hiring these groups even though the evidence shows that every game that DEI groups have been a part of have flopped causing companies to close down.

Are these companies really so scared of game "journalist" making false claims about them?

I mean SBI as an example said to use threats against companies to force them to hire them am I the only one who sees that as extortion? Could they not press charges for this?

[NeoVICT]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

DEI does not add anything relevant for a game to be good, it either has no effect or makes the game worse because resources that would otherwise go into polishing and bugfixing the game now go into paying for a SBI consultant that is only worried about implementing PoC, genders and sexual preferences for ideological and political reasons to increase the DEI score, all of which do not affect gameplay at all.

That's demonstrably false, too.

It has a positive effect, albeit for a very small minority of the playerbase, and for everyone else it has a net zero effect - albeit for a very small minority of the playerbase.

So it has no positive effect for gameplay or revenue, its positive effect is limited to a small minority feel better about themselves and the choices they made in life, got ya.
And for that, companies lose money, devs lose their jobs and studios close down, yeah, totally worth it.

Btw, what exactly is demonstrably false with what I said before?
You basically agreed with me on all points I made, and just added your point of making some minority feel good, just to say something remotely correct.

[Naamtar]

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

That's demonstrably false, too.

It has a positive effect, albeit for a very small minority of the playerbase, and for everyone else it has a net zero effect - albeit for a very small minority of the playerbase.

So it has no positive effect for gameplay or revenue, it's positive effect is limited to a small minority feel better about themselves and the choices they made, got ya.

Yah, is there a problem with a small portion of the playerbase feeling like they're part of the process? I'm not sure I would call it a choice they've made, either. I think it's safe to assume most minority groups would choose to fit in with the majority if they could. Kind of here nor there, though. The point is that "DEI offers a negative or neutral effect to games" isn't really true. For a minority of people out there it's a big deal, on both ends. The GG2.0 crowd and the minority crowd that's being represented.

For everyone else it's kind of whatever, the majority of players, with certain outliers that deserve criticism.

I threw an edit into my last comment before I saw your reply, so I'll put it here.

There is no evidence that resources would go elsewhere, that's a patent misunderstanding of how game development works. Writers and artists don't go fix bugs and code stuff in their downtime.

Developers are a finite resource and require months and months of onboarding to start contributing to a title. You cannot just go and hire more people on a whim to start working on a game, at least not on the coding end of things.

[Naamtar]

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

That's demonstrably false, too.

It has a positive effect, albeit for a very small minority of the playerbase, and for everyone else it has a net zero effect - albeit for a very small minority of the playerbase.

Btw, what exactly is demonstrably false with what I said before?
You basically agreed with me on all points I made, and just added your point of making some minority feel good, just to say something remotely correct.

The minority feeling good is what makes it demonstrably false.

[NeoVICT]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

Btw, what exactly is demonstrably false with what I said before?
You basically agreed with me on all points I made, and just added your point of making some minority feel good, just to say something remotely correct.

The minority feeling good is what makes it demonstrably false.

I wasn't even talking about a minority feeling good or not, my comment was just about gameplay, and every point i made is demonstrably true. Learn to read and comprehend.

[Conky]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por Chacheya1G:

God of Walk 2018 didnt have it, only Soynarok did. And it was visibly worse from it, too bad SNOY "gamers" were already too hyped to see it. Alan Woke 2 flopped massively. All the paid for game awards wont change that. BG3? No, belgian millennials dont need SBI's help to be woke. Spider-man 2 was also pure garbage, but again, the kind of subhumans that buy Sony 1st party games will eat whatever slop is served to them and get excited for the next slop.

Wow you really hit all the tropes in one go. Not sure you could present yourself as any more of a sheep if you tried.

Making catchy names for the games doesn't help reinforce your statements.

Without some kind of follow up to bland, open ended criticisms they're pointless.

Alan Wake 2 sold 1.3 million units. It's the fastest selling game the developers have ever made.

Ragnarok was a step up from the first game by almost every metric, it was also the highest selling God of War game ever made.

Why does SBI being involved make any difference for whether DEI is in a game or not? Baldur's Gate 3 is probably one of the largest games in scope to come out in over a decade. It's on a completely different level for game development. There's so much content that I still haven't come close to going through all of it at nearly 200 hours of playtime. It's such a massively impressive undertaking that pointing out sales numbers alone is insulting what it's done.

Spiderman 2 was meh, but it still did well. The combat was a lot better than the previous title, the story was a bit more mature and violent - but overall it didn't bring much new to the table. Not necessarily a bad thing when you consider how unique the game's systems are, but not really anything to praise either.

As far as people who own Playstation's, the PS5 was superior to PC by almost every metric for the first 2 years or so. Purely because of how poorly developers were handling the transition to DX12. It's load times and ability to drop in and out of exact moments in gameplay still blow PC out of the water.

Alan Wake 2 did not break even and is still a terrible game.

Do you actually think cliffhanger endings that are meant to force buying DLC are positive things?

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

Btw, what exactly is demonstrably false with what I said before?
You basically agreed with me on all points I made, and just added your point of making some minority feel good, just to say something remotely correct.

The minority feeling good is what makes it demonstrably false.

I am not sure why any group would be excited to discover crowbarring their representation into a game makes it fail automatically.

Design by committee is terrible over and over again.

Postal 2 has and will always have more players than Flintlock.

[NeoVICT]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

So it has no positive effect for gameplay or revenue, it's positive effect is limited to a small minority feel better about themselves and the choices they made, got ya.

Yah, is there a problem with a small portion of the playerbase feeling like they're part of the process?

There is no evidence that resources would go elsewhere, that's a patent misunderstanding of how game development works. Writers and artists don't go fix bugs and code stuff in their downtime.

1: If they need some representation or a pad on the back for what they are or what sexual preferences they have, just to be happy, then they have bigger problems than just the lack of representation and should consult a psychologist.
This virtue signaling BS for some weak-minded people who are so fragile that they can't live without people recognizing and catering to them is just pathetic.
2: SBI consultants take money for what they do, so off course that money is not going in the development of the game, geez, so my point is still true.
Your mental gymnastics are hilarious.

[Naamtar]

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

The minority feeling good is what makes it demonstrably false.

I wasn't even talking about a minority feeling good or not, my comment was just about gameplay, and every point i made is demonstrably true. Learn to read and comprehend.

I already addressed how the development pipeline doesn't necessarily make your statement true.

[Šaristas]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por Fighting-Priest:

It's strange that they keep hiring these groups even though the evidence shows that every game that DEI groups have been a part of have flopped causing companies to close down.

That's a lie.

Quite a few games that use DEI and have been wildly successful. God of War, Baldur's Gate 3, Spiderman 2, Shadow Gambit, Hyper Light Breaker, Alan Wake 2, the list goes on.

Don't get so wrapped up in your echo chamber that you fall into confirmation bias. It's easy to buy into rage bait when you're the emotional type.

the games keep failing and we are the ones in echo chamber, lol. the games you mentioned lost a chunk too, and got criticism over DEI, like god of war. that is like saying star wars isn't failing because disney has money.

[Naamtar]

Publicado originalmente por Conky:

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Wow you really hit all the tropes in one go. Not sure you could present yourself as any more of a sheep if you tried.

Making catchy names for the games doesn't help reinforce your statements.

Without some kind of follow up to bland, open ended criticisms they're pointless.

Alan Wake 2 sold 1.3 million units. It's the fastest selling game the developers have ever made.

Ragnarok was a step up from the first game by almost every metric, it was also the highest selling God of War game ever made.

Why does SBI being involved make any difference for whether DEI is in a game or not? Baldur's Gate 3 is probably one of the largest games in scope to come out in over a decade. It's on a completely different level for game development. There's so much content that I still haven't come close to going through all of it at nearly 200 hours of playtime. It's such a massively impressive undertaking that pointing out sales numbers alone is insulting what it's done.

Spiderman 2 was meh, but it still did well. The combat was a lot better than the previous title, the story was a bit more mature and violent - but overall it didn't bring much new to the table. Not necessarily a bad thing when you consider how unique the game's systems are, but not really anything to praise either.

As far as people who own Playstation's, the PS5 was superior to PC by almost every metric for the first 2 years or so. Purely because of how poorly developers were handling the transition to DX12. It's load times and ability to drop in and out of exact moments in gameplay still blow PC out of the water.

Alan Wake 2 did not break even and is still a terrible game.

Do you actually think cliffhanger endings that are meant to force buying DLC are positive things?

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

The minority feeling good is what makes it demonstrably false.

I am not sure why any group would be excited to discover crowbarring their representation into a game makes it fail automatically.

Design by committee is terrible over and over again.

Postal 2 has and will always have more players than Flintlock.

Thanks for the info on Alan Wake 2, I didn't realize that, not my kind of game.

[NeoVICT]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

I wasn't even talking about a minority feeling good or not, my comment was just about gameplay, and every point i made is demonstrably true. Learn to read and comprehend.

I already addressed how the development pipeline doesn't necessarily make your statement true.

I adressed this point in my reply above yours.
Money you spent on a consultant is money that does not go into paying devs for polishing and bugfixing, which is what I stated before, it's a logical conclusion, how you can say that is not necessarily true is beyond me, maybe logic isn't your thing.

[Conky]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

I wasn't even talking about a minority feeling good or not, my comment was just about gameplay, and every point i made is demonstrably true. Learn to read and comprehend.

I already addressed how the development pipeline doesn't necessarily make your statement true.

Why do you keep pointing to Alan Wake 2 as some kind of success?

It does not matter if your game sells quickly or how many copies it sells when you don't recoup production costs.

Take note. That is not a success story. It's not an example if a DEI game doing well.

[Naamtar]

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Yah, is there a problem with a small portion of the playerbase feeling like they're part of the process?

There is no evidence that resources would go elsewhere, that's a patent misunderstanding of how game development works. Writers and artists don't go fix bugs and code stuff in their downtime.

1: If they need some representation or a pad on the back for what they are or what sexual preferences they have, just to be happy, then they have bigger problems than just the lack of representation and should consult a psychologist.
This virtue signaling BS for some weak-minded people who are so fragile that they can't live without people recognizing and catering to them is just pathetic.
2: SBI consultants take money for what they do, so off course that money is not going in the development of the game, geez, so my point is still true.
Your mental gymnastics are hilarious.

Everyone needs representation and a pat on the back, my guy. That's just the human condition. Being human and wanting social acceptance doesn't warrant seeking a psychologist.

You're equating the people who are trying to force their lifestyle choices into things with people who are just looking to live their lives. The latter benefit greatly from seeing themselves represented in a video game, or anywhere else for that matter. It feels good to feel noticed, even if you're not seeking it.

You're moving goal posts now, your original statement was that the resources taken by SBI could be put elsewhere in the game - like bug fixing. I've already pointed out how that's not how things work in the development pipeline. The money is irrelevant, it's onboarding developers that's hard. The term "crunch time" exists for a reason, it's impossible to predict what size team you should have at the onset of development in terms of how close you'll be to meeting a deadline. Making the assumption that SBI's payment is on par with years of salary for a developer might be a stretch, maybe it's not. Do you have info on how much they charge?

[Naamtar]

Publicado originalmente por Conky:

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

I already addressed how the development pipeline doesn't necessarily make your statement true.

Why do you keep pointing to Alan Wake 2 as some kind of success?

It does not matter if your game sells quickly or how many copies it sells when you don't recoup production costs.

Take note. That is not a success story. It's not an example if a DEI game doing well.

I don't keep pointing to it? I wasn't aware that it's still at a net loss, hadn't read that interview. Thanks for pointing it out. There are still other examples I gave that work, no?

[NeoVICT]

Publicado originalmente por Naamtar:

Publicado originalmente por NeoVICT:

1: If they need some representation or a pad on the back for what they are or what sexual preferences they have, just to be happy, then they have bigger problems than just the lack of representation and should consult a psychologist.
This virtue signaling BS for some weak-minded people who are so fragile that they can't live without people recognizing and catering to them is just pathetic.
2: SBI consultants take money for what they do, so off course that money is not going in the development of the game, geez, so my point is still true.
Your mental gymnastics are hilarious.

Everyone needs representation and a pat on the back, my guy. That's just the human condition. Being human and wanting social acceptance doesn't warrant seeking a psychologist.

You're equating the people who are trying to force their lifestyle choices into things with people who are just looking to live their lives. The latter benefit greatly from seeing themselves represented in a video game, or anywhere else for that matter. It feels good to feel noticed, even if you're not seeking it.

You're moving goal posts now, your original statement was that the resources taken by SBI could be put elsewhere in the game - like bug fixing. I've already pointed out how that's not how things work in the development pipeline. The money is irrelevant, it's onboarding developers that's hard. The term "crunch time" exists for a reason, it's impossible to predict what size team you should have at the onset of development in terms of how close you'll be to meeting a deadline. Making the assumption that SBI's payment is on par with years of salary for a developer might be a stretch, maybe it's not. Do you have info on how much they charge?

I did not change, goal posts, I stick with what I said, you keep making things i said up in your mind and argue them instead.
How exactly is money spent on a consultant going to be used elsewhere?
Explain how that is supposed to work, genius.