Sebo is unwinnable

[Quothe]

Once you know the strat, you can set up an 100% win rate in these matches, and the AI knows it and uses it. What gives?

[Pixel Bandits]

Hey Quothe. I've managed to win a fair few games alongside a few losses. I've passed your feedback to the development team here, though, and hope you're still giving things a go.

[Quothe]

Oh yeah, this is a really minor complaint, I love this game. I don't care if Sebo is ACTUALLY unwinnable, I love your take on a more soulslike DMC game.

[Cat's Meow]

The first game of sebo is the worst offender, it got a lot better when you find more people to play with on different boards. the first triangle one you can win in 2-3 moves and can't be stopped, same as when the AI has a turn. there just isn't enough room on the board for a "proper" game, would work better as a guided tutorial to sabo instead of a "real" game at that step imo.

[Punk Chaz]

I agree with @cat's meow being that the first game should be a tutorial.

My ai just moved one coin around and left the middle and not moved them until I ran out of moves.

[StarcasterMafia]

Remember in the full game you can collect coins in wells which will have special upgrades that SHOULD help you in a fair few battles - so some you may need to come back to ;)

[Quothe]

While that's fair, I think starting the player with a coin would be appreciated, like make it part of a tutorial for the minigame. Something that allows a coin to move two spaces, idk, that'd solve the unbeatable strategy like you said, and avoid frustrating players. Remember, this is our first encounter with it, and our first encounter is "you cannot win without a lot of luck". I suspect a lot of players won't bother with it after their first interaction leaving a sour taste in their mouth, which is a shame because it has potential to be an interesting minigame with different boards and stuff.

[Dark Moon Felis]

Originally posted by Pixel Bandits:

Hey Quothe. I've managed to win a fair few games alongside a few losses. I've passed your feedback to the development team here, though, and hope you're still giving things a go.

The very first one's Defend phase is unwinnable without any special coins, simply because of where the coins start for Baz. That one I don't think is at all possible unless the AI just makes a mistake at random.

[amerika*]

Originally posted by Quothe:

While that's fair, I think starting the player with a coin would be appreciated, like make it part of a tutorial for the minigame. Something that allows a coin to move two spaces, idk, that'd solve the unbeatable strategy like you said, and avoid frustrating players. Remember, this is our first encounter with it, and our first encounter is "you cannot win without a lot of luck". I suspect a lot of players won't bother with it after their first interaction leaving a sour taste in their mouth, which is a shame because it has potential to be an interesting minigame with different boards and stuff.

This was my take as I pretty much will never touch it again now.

[st3ve]

ive won

[Ralkahn]

Unless they've pushed an update since the previous comments, it is not unwinnable. I just won the first game on my second attempt (and lost the first one during the defend phase because of a stupid mistake.)

[Dark Moon Felis]

Originally posted by Ralkahn:

Unless they've pushed an update since the previous comments, it is not unwinnable. I just won the first game on my second attempt (and lost the first one during the defend phase because of a stupid mistake.)

Huh. In my game, the defend phase starts with Baz's move, and he moves the same coin every time for me, creating a situation where he's one move away from winning in two different positions...

[RevBrucifer]

I've won many games of Sebo, it's not impossible. It is semi annoying at times though I'll admit. Especially when the AI starts using coins on you.

[periurban]

What is the objective? All it says is to make a triangle, but at least in the first games I played there was no strategy that would win unless the AI let you - at least when attempting to get the pieces adjacent to one another in a triangle. Is that the objective? Seems like a missed opportunity to me.

[Vagabond]

Originally posted by StarcasterMafia:

Remember in the full game you can collect coins in wells which will have special upgrades that SHOULD help you in a fair few battles - so some you may need to come back to ;)

Sebo is some in-universe version of texas holdem or monopaly. Collectable coins can give our protagonist an edge, but the base game *SHOULD* be a fair fight. If not, why would anyone in this universe play this outside a very small friends group.

I get you're trying to repilcate Gwent, but even there, the base card game plays fairly and the same across opponents.

[President Whitmore]

The Enlightened Peak Sebo defense is to me the worst with a close second being the Baz defense. Its basically just chess AI thinking 5 moves ahead of you with a piece that pushes other pieces out of the way AND it can form triangles this way. While all I had when I had first got there was a piece that could swap once per game and not make triangles with the swap. The fact it REQUIRES you either get extremely lucky on defense or possess OP special coins is insane. I genuinely think the entire mini-game of Sebo needs to be removed or redone from the ground up.