Tempered Bonds

[A Helpless Baby]

Tempered bonds could use a clearer list of what exactly counts as "black powder trickery". obviously I can't gun parry, but when I dodged his red attacks (didn't even use the gunpowder dodge) it counted as breaking the rules or whatever. as it because I had the dodge bonus armor? do you have to basically fight him with no armor?

Also, wouldn't it basically be impossible to do it by the rules if you have the skill that makes Enki attack when you dodge?

[Nelo]

Yeah, the same with explosion on gaining gunpowder. And the ancient, demented 1 slot save system makes knights permanently hostile, closing the other way to resolve the quest.

UPD: NOR ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ BLUTRING OUT "THIS SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED" after killing the knights. Now I know this ♥♥♥♥ was done deliberately - thanks Gamepass for saving me money

[Astronimo]

Yeah, kinda bloody aftertaste. I think, that fight should disable all abilities in powder and arcane trees by default.

[Ken]

Originally posted by A Helpless Baby:

Tempered bonds could use a clearer list of what exactly counts as "black powder trickery". obviously I can't gun parry, but when I dodged his red attacks (didn't even use the gunpowder dodge) it counted as breaking the rules or whatever. as it because I had the dodge bonus armor? do you have to basically fight him with no armor?

Also, wouldn't it basically be impossible to do it by the rules if you have the skill that makes Enki attack when you dodge?

Just parry, melee, and don't double dodge. Just don't do anything that might consume black powder/be considered magic from Enki. Felt like this was pretty straightforward.

[Astronimo]

Originally posted by Ken:

Originally posted by A Helpless Baby:

Tempered bonds could use a clearer list of what exactly counts as "black powder trickery". obviously I can't gun parry, but when I dodged his red attacks (didn't even use the gunpowder dodge) it counted as breaking the rules or whatever. as it because I had the dodge bonus armor? do you have to basically fight him with no armor?

Also, wouldn't it basically be impossible to do it by the rules if you have the skill that makes Enki attack when you dodge?

Just parry, melee, and don't double dodge. Just don't do anything that might consume black powder/be considered magic from Enki. Felt like this was pretty straightforward.

Unfortunately, there is a passive skill in powder tree that will automatically blow up powder when you get a charge. If you are full - you are safe. If not - it automatically triggers.

[Nelo]

Originally posted by Ken:

Originally posted by A Helpless Baby:

Tempered bonds could use a clearer list of what exactly counts as "black powder trickery". obviously I can't gun parry, but when I dodged his red attacks (didn't even use the gunpowder dodge) it counted as breaking the rules or whatever. as it because I had the dodge bonus armor? do you have to basically fight him with no armor?

Also, wouldn't it basically be impossible to do it by the rules if you have the skill that makes Enki attack when you dodge?

Just parry, melee, and don't double dodge. Just don't do anything that might consume black powder/be considered magic from Enki. Felt like this was pretty straightforward.

Could you, by any chance - change your equpment mid fight? Nah

So you need to know, that absolutely any effect outside standart skills aka dodge\parry\block is a violation of the no blackpowder rule and swap out of it during the conversation.

Sounds reasonable for a single slot save system

[Astronimo]

The best solution would be force disable of all abilities outside of steel tree. And give a dialogue option to fight as is or duel by rules

[Sethyreal]

This literally just happened to me. I instinctively double dodge, and I was hoping if I immediately loaded last checkpoint and came back, maybe they'd be peaceful. It's pretty silly to not lock black powder abilities when there's one you can't remove, and may hit on accident.

Would be really nice if there was a way to retry at the very least. As it stands, I was very much enjoying this game, but being forced out of choice due to a minor mistake (forgetting double dodge is a BP skill) has honestly killed all desire for me to continue :/.

[Astronimo]

Nah, it's fine. Think of it, as it was destined to end this way.

[Sethyreal]

Originally posted by Astronimo:

Nah, it's fine. Think of it, as it was destined to end this way.

I mean sure it's "fine" but now I'm not playing the game because I feel like a choice was stolen from me because I overlooked something simple. To each their own, but I wish I still felt like playing. That's all

[Astronimo]

"it's not your fault, they choose the violence when they agreed to serve the judges"

[Sethyreal]

I appreciate the thought, but that's not how my mind works unfortunately. Maybe I'll just try starting a new game.

[Narcissistic Cannibal]

Originally posted by Ken:

and don't double dodge. Just don't do anything that might consume black powder/be considered magic from Enki.

It's hard to subdue reflexes and not to double-dodge. Besides, he didn't mention anything about using magic.
At least, what happens when you win "honourably"? Do they just leave?
Anyway, I consider this outcome as extra free XP.

[CHEEBnRUN]

From PowerPxy:

"Tempered Bonds (Sapper Quest): can be started by talking to Jung at the campsite immediately after arriving at Wanderer’s Rest. Get to the Knights’ camp, talk to the sentirti and then confront the commander. While he says you can’t use powder, you can and this is the only way to advance the quest. Once you do, he will call the rest of the guards to action. Defeat everyone to obtain the Warlock’s Gauntlet, then return to Jung at the campsite to end this quest."

so don't worry about it, you had to bring out the kit anyways...

[Baja Beef Chalupa $3.19]

Fun fact: reflexively switching to the burn axe after breaking his armor also counts as black powder trickery

I want the armor, I don't want to kill everyone, and I **really** don't want to start over 😞

[Baja Beef Chalupa $3.19]

Originally posted by CHEEBnRUN:

From PowerPxy:

"Tempered Bonds (Sapper Quest): can be started by talking to Jung at the campsite immediately after arriving at Wanderer’s Rest. Get to the Knights’ camp, talk to the sentirti and then confront the commander. While he says you can’t use powder, you can and this is the only way to advance the quest. Once you do, he will call the rest of the guards to action. Defeat everyone to obtain the Warlock’s Gauntlet, then return to Jung at the campsite to end this quest."

so don't worry about it, you had to bring out the kit anyways...

That is entirely not accurate
https://youtu.be/lUvkSsagJ68?si=2TORtyMl8AdaPcjK