Idle Spiral

Idle Spiral

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Draco18s Oct 12, 2023 @ 2:37pm
2
Things the Game Doesn't Detail
That is, the game uses a few terms in a couple of places and doesn't explain what those things are. Some of these I've figured out by brute force, others were discovered through external means (eg. the wiki).

1) Line Multiplier Number
- apparently this is the thing in the corner next to Δr, which also inconveniently does not actually say how much it increases Δr by when active (it's in increments of 10%...until increases from other effects get applied, then who the ♥♥♥ knows--the Blue Dottered Line* grants a +170% bonus, which raises my effective 150% increase at x5 to about 200%, but the exact value? No idea)
2) Spiral Point Multiplier
- this one is more just obscured by the fact that achievements grant SP used to unlock things in the shop, but the fact that they're called "spiral points" is easily overlooked. A +1% multiplier is borderline nothing when an achievement grants 30 points. Wowee, a 0.3 extra! Rounded down. Oh and because achievements can only award points once, the game penalizes you for taking those points right away... If only you waited until your 3rd T-prestige! You could have had 3% more points~
3) Daily Bonus
- What this does is grants free Spiral Points. But it doesn't say that and because your current SP is listed in an entirely different section of the game, you may not even notice that that is what it did.
4) Add new exponent for k
- I know what k is, and buying this does increase the value of k (and by extension Δr), but I don't know how it does this as that exponent value never shows up anywhere (there's a k-exponent in the 8th r-upgrades list, but this is a separate instance).
5) Spiral Equation Slot
- this one is listed under "variables" and before you've upgraded to T4 this upgrade is useless, so it is easy to assume that this somehow gives you another equation that effects the main spiral, but it does not. Notably even the Spiral Equation screen does not even use the term "slot" but rather "selectable."
6) Spiral Point Multiplier from Battle Spiral
- I have legitimately never seen spiral points show up as a Battle Spiral reward
7) All of the spiral design purchases just list a color (or pair of colors) without indicating anything about what they do or why you'd want one.
- I was literally told to go to the wiki by a friend to peruse the options.
8) "Divide Spiral Design"
- This is available from Minute 0 and despite a total playtime nearing three and a half days, this checkbox has never done anything.
9) Drunk Challenge does not indicate the range between which ω will fluctuate
- Appears to be 0 to 2.
10) Battle "auto start" unlock values are listed as "kill N (total) enemies" but do not actually operate as "total" but "this specific enemy"
- suggest: remove "enemies" and substitute "Kappa" "Alpha" etc. specifically.
11) Total offline percentage is displayed nowhere
12) Regeneration speed appears to be in "HP per Second" and "when resting" works as I would expect it to in that regard. But somehow during battle my measly 32 regen can keep pace with the damage Beta does to me (~11k every 9.5 seconds); that is, my health never lowers below my maximum, and never has except when my maximum increases. Yes, even when my defense was 0.

*Yes, the game says "Dottered" not "Dotted". I only just noticed this.
Last edited by Draco18s; Oct 12, 2023 @ 2:43pm
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Showing 16-30 of 41 comments
Draco18s Nov 8, 2023 @ 5:08pm 
I suppose the "Increase Δr by how far z is" is also relatively undocumented, though it's more in a "how did the game get that value from the inputs" math, and I'm having to do my calculations on this upgrade's purchase on an approximation that is within 1% of actual, and the math I have is the kind of thing that I look at and think "this has some arbitrary offsets that make no sense" but is <1% off (either high or low) since upgrade level 47 and within 4% since I started keeping track at upgrade level 35 (and I'm willing to chalk some of that up to data entry error), totaling over 200 data captures and 12 orders of magnitude (59M to 603Qa).

I've taken rounding errors into consideration and am basing my "within 1%" off of the rounded value I get back out compared to the rounded value I see in the game.

Why the math looks weird to me:
I have:
({upgrade level} + 2) * ({per level increase} + 2) + 70
Where {per level increase} is Log10({Z})*2

At time of writing, Z is 538Qa, the per-level increase is 35.53, with 88 levels, totaling 3.48K
My calculations give me a per-level increase is 35.53 and total of 3450 (rounded from 3447.82).
Low by 0.8% (the two least significant digits of the per-level increase change fast enough that I have excluded them here, but are comparable, and don't affect the final value).

Those 2s and +70 seem...so...random.

I can swap the +70 for a +3 on the per-level-increase (-70; + level) and all data points end up +/-2% (willing to bet this is closer to the actual formula; although it sacrifices more recent accuracy for earlier inaccuracy, but all outlier values remain outliers and still in the same direction either high or low) and ≤1% low since upgrade level 71. Made this change just now in refining my approximations. But it still leaves the bizarre *2, +2, and +3 that make me think it isn't correct.

I only mention this one as the delta-change from upgrading that option is misleading as it takes the current per-level increase and applies it to the new level not accounting for the cost that would make a reduction in the per-level increase that can cause a reduction in Δr as a result of purchasing.

This is similar to "purchasing β made Δr go down" but that one is the result of not correctly anticipating how the integral changes, this one is just hidden and can't even be approximated by "oh just don't do it until your Z is three times the cost" due to the Log10 (the higher you go, the less buffer you need).
Draco18s Nov 8, 2023 @ 5:15pm 
Then these two:
Variable subscripts, posted before I decided to make a comment here
Math Skill?, which I found via search and didn't bother making a comment here

Although I don't know why "Math Skill" is even a separate stat from "Enemy Growth Reduction." Could have just called it "enemy growth reduction" even if it's multiplicative with the value from challenges.

Oh yeah, what the Fook does "No Settings: +0.5" actually do/refer to and what challenge gave me that reward?
Last edited by Draco18s; Nov 8, 2023 @ 5:16pm
Draco18s Nov 8, 2023 @ 9:18pm 
o.O Alright, I funneled all of my Δz into reactors because it was high enough that my calculations weren't aligning.

So then I paid for a 15Qa bump to the next upgrade level... and was charged 11Qa...

AND I HAVE SCREENSHOTS

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3077127291
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3077127306

The next bump costing 23.8Qa only actually cost... 16Qa...

...I don't understand...
Failormoon Nov 9, 2023 @ 1:33am 
I still dont get how the daily reward works, what I need to do to get a higher number...
Pâtes au pesto Nov 9, 2023 @ 2:24am 
Originally posted by Failormoon:
I still dont get how the daily reward works, what I need to do to get a higher number...

it's just random 1->65-ish x Spirale point multiplier (if i remember correctly)
Draco18s Nov 9, 2023 @ 9:49am 
Originally posted by Failormoon:
I still dont get how the daily reward works, what I need to do to get a higher number...
Good point, that that isn't mentioned in the game either. But yeah, it's just random.

The "times spiral point multiplier" is applied to everything, and happens after the fact. The number you get on the daily screen is the raw value, but your actual total will go up by the spiral point multiplier.
Draco18s Nov 9, 2023 @ 2:51pm 
Gah, why does the Riemann spiral equation exist? It does nothing useful. It grants 0.001% battle milestone progress, but you're going to hit the soft-cap on milestones LONG before you get access to this equation.

And at 900 seconds (scaling up) per rank, this percentage is so tiny that even if there were still milestone rewards out to 30M, it wouldn't actually make a difference.
Draco18s Nov 10, 2023 @ 9:22am 
Unlocked Theories!

Entire UI is non-functional because I need to do something else first, apparently. Can't start studying, can't have an epiphany, but I found I had two inspiration points from battles. Apparently I need ten to do...anything here?

Thanks game. Apparently a single point is approximately 1 million battle kills. JFC.
Draco18s Nov 10, 2023 @ 10:09am 
Oh and also how Block and Resurrection work (also it's spelled with 1 's', not 2).

Best I can tell, a resurrection or block is consumed when you take "enough" damage. Precisely what counts as "enough" I have no idea. Regardless, if it is Enough, resurrections are consumed before blocks, but blocks are easier to come by.

I would assume that a block is needed whenever you take damage that exceeds your defense and a resurrection if the damage would kill you.

However this is not always the case, as I've had them consumed on damage values below my defense. When this happens, switching Nuke mode on/off and back, or just stopping battle and starting again, will result in it going back to not-consuming them. I do not know how to enter the "always consumes" state.
Pâtes au pesto Nov 10, 2023 @ 11:49pm 
Originally posted by Draco18s:
Unlocked Theories!

. Apparently a single point is approximately 1 million battle kills. JFC.

You can Buy your first Point with XP on battle upgrades, i think this is the way to easy start (randomly Buying 58 of them gave a pretty decent Equation study start)

Also, Pentangle seems to be the lowest enemy to have a decent Loot Table
Last edited by Pâtes au pesto; Nov 10, 2023 @ 11:52pm
Draco18s Nov 11, 2023 @ 12:15am 
Originally posted by Belette Crachin:
You can Buy your first Point with XP on battle upgrades, i think this is the way to easy start (randomly Buying 58 of them gave a pretty decent Equation study start)

I don't see a battle upgrade that is relevant.
Pâtes au pesto Nov 11, 2023 @ 1:06am 
Originally posted by Draco18s:
I don't see a battle upgrade that is relevant.

Battle Upgrade
Category : Other
Sixth upgrade, Upgrade51 (the one on the lower right corner) : Instantly gain +1 Inspiration
Draco18s Nov 11, 2023 @ 1:24am 
Yup. It's still locked. I only have the top three of that group.
Pâtes au pesto Nov 11, 2023 @ 1:28am 
oh... i don't know how you unlock that.
It came to me with the last update.
What T-Prestige are you ?
Draco18s Nov 11, 2023 @ 1:31am 
T-32

I believe it was 32 that gave me access to theories.
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