Things the Game Doesn't Detail

[Draco18s]

That is, the game uses a few terms in a couple of places and doesn't explain what those things are. Some of these I've figured out by brute force, others were discovered through external means (eg. the wiki).

1) Line Multiplier Number
- apparently this is the thing in the corner next to Δr, which also inconveniently does not actually say how much it increases Δr by when active (it's in increments of 10%...until increases from other effects get applied, then who the ♥♥♥ knows--the Blue Dottered Line* grants a +170% bonus, which raises my effective 150% increase at x5 to about 200%, but the exact value? No idea)
2) Spiral Point Multiplier
- this one is more just obscured by the fact that achievements grant SP used to unlock things in the shop, but the fact that they're called "spiral points" is easily overlooked. A +1% multiplier is borderline nothing when an achievement grants 30 points. Wowee, a 0.3 extra! Rounded down. Oh and because achievements can only award points once, the game penalizes you for taking those points right away... If only you waited until your 3rd T-prestige! You could have had 3% more points~
3) Daily Bonus
- What this does is grants free Spiral Points. But it doesn't say that and because your current SP is listed in an entirely different section of the game, you may not even notice that that is what it did.
4) Add new exponent for k
- I know what k is, and buying this does increase the value of k (and by extension Δr), but I don't know how it does this as that exponent value never shows up anywhere (there's a k-exponent in the 8th r-upgrades list, but this is a separate instance).
5) Spiral Equation Slot
- this one is listed under "variables" and before you've upgraded to T4 this upgrade is useless, so it is easy to assume that this somehow gives you another equation that effects the main spiral, but it does not. Notably even the Spiral Equation screen does not even use the term "slot" but rather "selectable."
6) Spiral Point Multiplier from Battle Spiral
- I have legitimately never seen spiral points show up as a Battle Spiral reward
7) All of the spiral design purchases just list a color (or pair of colors) without indicating anything about what they do or why you'd want one.
- I was literally told to go to the wiki by a friend to peruse the options.
8) "Divide Spiral Design"
- This is available from Minute 0 and despite a total playtime nearing three and a half days, this checkbox has never done anything.
9) Drunk Challenge does not indicate the range between which ω will fluctuate
- Appears to be 0 to 2.
10) Battle "auto start" unlock values are listed as "kill N (total) enemies" but do not actually operate as "total" but "this specific enemy"
- suggest: remove "enemies" and substitute "Kappa" "Alpha" etc. specifically.
11) Total offline percentage is displayed nowhere
12) Regeneration speed appears to be in "HP per Second" and "when resting" works as I would expect it to in that regard. But somehow during battle my measly 32 regen can keep pace with the damage Beta does to me (~11k every 9.5 seconds); that is, my health never lowers below my maximum, and never has except when my maximum increases. Yes, even when my defense was 0.

*Yes, the game says "Dottered" not "Dotted". I only just noticed this.

[Kiara]

!: the line number multiplier increases the effect of the X5 button
2: the points are gained retroactively claim achievements whenever you want to
3: ya some things aren't the most intuitive
4: also definitely needs to be shown in the formula imo but for reference it's k^(1+0.1xlevel of upgrade)
5: ya
6: From battle you can get 0.001 spiral points every difficulty progress, and 0.01 past difficulty 100. The Kurt Spiral Equation gives a buff to how much SP you gain from battle, up to a daily limit of 100sp currently in the test version, on live i believe it's currently unlimited
7: the wiki is outdated i don't recommend using it it was last updated over a year and a half ago i believe, the current info site is being updated, and this is a thing i have been bugging dev about for awhile this info defiantly should be shown imo in game
8: yes it is by far the most un-intuitive thing in the game atm, it's used to set a cosmetic skin for main spiral but the ui doesn't explain anything the ui will be getting a rework hopefully in the near future and i'm hoping most of these issues can be remedied
9: this one varied by completion, level 1 is 0.1-5 level 2 is 0.05-3 level 3 is 0.03-2 level 4 is 0.02-1 level 5 is 0.01-0.5
10: that's how you interpreted it it says "Defeat {0} enemies to unlock Auto Start" it doesn't say defeat any enemy x total times. this one has been reworded many times and there simply isnt space to fully describe every little detail, this is the first time i have heard this specific point being brought up, and due to that i assume to most it makes enough sense
11: ya honestly im not even sure how this is calculated myself
12 Regen is not useful past the first enemy, the floating battle text is just useless and confusing and causes way more confusion than good if your defense is greater than their attack you will never take dmg despite what floating text says.


edit to !: line number multiplier currently is x1.4 while active so with +100% it's x2.8 delta r

[Draco18s]

Originally posted by Twilight Sparkle:

12 Regen is not useful past the first enemy, the floating battle text is just useless and confusing and causes way more confusion than good if your defense is greater than their attack you will never take dmg despite what floating text says.

No, I mean, even when the attack does more damage than my defense, I still don't take damage. 100K damage from Pi against my 53K defense?

No change in actual HP.

10: that's how you interpreted it it says "Defeat {0} enemies to unlock Auto Start" it doesn't say defeat any enemy x total times. this one has been reworded many times and there simply isnt space to fully describe every little detail, this is the first time i have heard this specific point being brought up, and due to that i assume to most it makes enough sense

"Defeat {0} {1} to unlock Auto Start" where {1} is the name of the enemy. AFAICT there aren't any enemies with names longer than the word "enemy" by any significant margin (and there are already other places where the amount of text doesn't fit into its assigned text area on the default font size, cough Automation menu).

6: From battle you can get 0.001 spiral points every difficulty progress, and 0.01 past difficulty 100.

Good to know, but definitely not actually listed anywhere.

[Draco18s]

Speaking of text that doesn't fit into text boxes, the 8th r upgrade can be simplified to `a += log(k)/2.3` (I realize the game doesn't actually use += but it probably should, given the 11th upgrade making it look like Δr += a + (b+c+d+e+f+g) / 6 * lv, rather than a += (b+c+d+e+f+g) / 6 * lv).

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=log10%28762000000%5Ex%29

See the derivative about half way down, and substituting the 2-significant-digit approximation of log(10).

Or, I guess since the upgrade actually gives 10 times the value it says it gives (the wolfram alpha link says the value is 8.88, however the game shows the increase as 88.82) I guess instead of dividing by 2.3, multiply by 4.343

(TLDR, log and exponentiation are inverse functions, just that the exponent and the log base are different values, which is rectified by dividing out the natural log of 10).

Or you could still use log10 I guess; a +=log10(k) * 10%

(Alternative form; https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=log10%28x%5E47%29 )

[Romanus]

Originally posted by Draco18s:

"Defeat {0} {1} to unlock Auto Start" where {1} is the name of the enemy. AFAICT there aren't any enemies with names longer than the word "enemy" by any significant margin (and there are already other places where the amount of text doesn't fit into its assigned text area on the default font size, cough Automation menu).

I'd figure Fibanomnom would fit this criterium :)

[Draco18s]

Originally posted by Romanus:

I'd figure Fibanomnom would fit this criterium :)

One I am unaware of.

In any case, there's still some free space between the end of the line and the "Difficulty" button (and about another half of that amount available at the start of the line before the checkbox).

[Draco18s]

Ok, got another one.

How the f*ck do the reactors work? I am literally puzzled by the math because it doesn't work out.

1) The "active" benefit appears to be [Δz assigned] as the argument to the listed math equation. This doesn't make sense because...

2) Reactor level and accumulated experience has no apparent effect, so I'm literally burning income for a static benefit of extremely marginal value (the R reactor: I can either apply my total z to Δr, and all Δz applies cumulative, or I can reduce Δz in order to apply that reduction to Δr as a flat value. BIG HINT: which is bigger, 1+2+3+4+5+6+... or 1?).
I mean sure, I can turn some Δz (and thereby Δr) into increases into things I can't normally affect with the main spiral, but for 50 Δz I can get... a 0.04% increase to Line multiplier, 0.01723% to Spiral Equation speed, or 0.00000% to battle stats. That is, less benefit than finding pennies in my couch in exchange for 12.5% of my yearly income (total Δz is ~400).

3) The passive benefit has no association with the math formula listed based on any value I can find.
eg. the S reactor is currently giving me a +50% to battle stats passively. This means the input value should either be 171,000 or 36,840 depending on how the "50" in the "50%" is interpreted as a numerical value. My S reactor is level 10 with 740,000 exp out of 357,000 and my actual z is 10,900,000.
If I plug those other numbers in instead I should be getting a percentage of 1e-11, 4052, or 12,950,290 respectively.

[Draco18s]

Originally posted by Twilight Sparkle:

10: that's how you interpreted it it says "Defeat {0} enemies to unlock Auto Start" it doesn't say defeat any enemy x total times. this one has been reworded many times and there simply isnt space to fully describe every little detail, this is the first time i have heard this specific point being brought up, and due to that i assume to most it makes enough sense

Gah! Even "Auto Start" is wrong! It isn't auto-start at all! It's auto-REROLL!

Finally did the last hunk to unlock this feature for the Training enemy and tried it out and even the tin is named incorrectly. 😩

And it looks like it uses a standard reroll, not the uncommon (or better) reroll to boot. So that's less than ideal (not that the Uncommon reroll button even works properly for me for some reason, I literally have to rapid-click like a dozen times for it to do ANYTHING and that isn't even a guarantee).

[Jadian]

Originally posted by Draco18s:

How the f*ck do the reactors work? I am literally puzzled by the math because it doesn't work out.

1) The "active" benefit appears to be [Δz assigned] as the argument to the listed math equation. This doesn't make sense because...

2) Reactor level and accumulated experience has no apparent effect

3) The passive benefit has no association with the math formula listed based on any value I can find.

1) The Current/Active benefit is indeed based on [Δz assigned], with the assigned value used as the argument in the displayed equation.

2) Reactor level (the result of the accumulated experience) has an effect you're overlooking because

3) The passive benefit is not based on the math formula, but on the reactor level. It is a simple bonus of "Passive effect per level * Reactor level".

Example: Your S reactor at level 10 is giving you +50% to battle stats. My S reactor at level 32 is giving +160% to battle stats. This reactor gives you +5% to battle stats per reactor level, that stacks multiplicatively with the Active bonus.

[Draco18s]

Originally posted by Jadian:

1) The Current/Active benefit is indeed based on [Δz assigned], with the assigned value used as the argument in the displayed equation.

JFC that is confusing as hell. Should be... oh lets go with R as a stand-in for Reactor Efficiency and R isn't used elsewhere. Maybe drop a "R=[Δz assigned]" parameter into the descripto box.

But ok. How about some quick math.

112 Δz assigned into Reactor - L
Listed equation is z²/2500
112² is 12544
12544/25000 is "about 0.5" multiplied by some power of 10 to turn this result into a percentage.
Actual? 0.2%

Turned the precision up for this one
58.26 Δz assigned into Reactor - L
58.26² is 3394
3394/25000 is 0.1357
Actual? 0.06022%

HMMM

(the other three I have access to compute just fine)

[Porky Minch]

Originally posted by Twilight Sparkle:

7: the wiki is outdated i don't recommend using it it was last updated over a year and a half ago i believe, the current info site is being updated, and this is a thing i have been bugging dev about for awhile this info defiantly should be shown imo in game

Mind linking the "current info site"?

[Kiara]

Originally posted by Porky Minch:

Originally posted by Twilight Sparkle:

7: the wiki is outdated i don't recommend using it it was last updated over a year and a half ago i believe, the current info site is being updated, and this is a thing i have been bugging dev about for awhile this info defiantly should be shown imo in game

Mind linking the "current info site"?

there is none currently, but https://kloppie5.github.io/IdleSpiralInfo/ is where it will be when he gets around to working on it, he's been busy with work

[Porky Minch]

I remember using *some* website a year ago that had a bunch of info, more indepth than the wiki. It even had info on what the upcoming updates would include. But I don't remember what the website was.

[Kiara]

Originally posted by Porky Minch:

I remember using *some* website a year ago that had a bunch of info, more indepth than the wiki. It even had info on what the upcoming updates would include. But I don't remember what the website was.

it was the one linked above

[Jadian]

Originally posted by Draco18s:

But ok. How about some quick math.

(math)

HMMM

(the other three I have access to compute just fine)

Sorry for the late response, but yeah, the displayed formula here doesn't match the effect. The actual formula seems to use an exponent of 1.8 instead of 2.

[Draco18s]

Got one more:

• There's a 10% bonus to γ I can't locate. Main spiral design area shows a value 10% higher than I can find contributions for (upgrades, battle rewards).

This value used to line up, but I'm not entirely sure when it changed (I hadn't been using this portion of my spreadsheet for a while, as the "which purchase is better?" on Ω/γ/δ hadn't been important once I had the battle rewards).

Values from upgrades:
Ω = 4
γ = 4
δ = 3.6

Bonus from Battle:
Ω: +81.9K
Ω: +245.1496%
γ: +86.5K
γ: +34.3515%
δ: +73.6K
δ: +119.6710%

Bonus from spiral design:
Ω: +50%
Ω: +20%

Listed values:
γ: 128K
Ω: 509K
δ: 162K
Δz: 46.5T (before Z-reactor allocation)

Computed values:
γ: 116.2K (10% shy; rounding error can only account for ~0.1%)
Ω: 508.8K
δ: 161.6K
Δz: 45.0T (would be accurate if γ was accurate)