Farming ∮

[Mordtziel]

For anyone delusional enough to wonder how much stats you need to quickly farm ∮...
@1Dvg(1e69) ATK you would need a non raid debuff effect value of...
~2.39883% to deal 50 damage in the first hit
~0.101887% to oneshot difficulty 0.

In order to two shot ∮ with 1k nuke and 16% debuff your combo must generate 38,651% in a single hit.

Are any of these numbers possible right now? The combo one should actually be "attainable"...but requires quite a bit of equation farming...assuming it doesn't hit a DR at some point...maybe about 1-1.5m levels?

Food for thought o/

EDIT: If you can reach 1e97 atk (can clear square root II challenge), then you only need an NRD value of 1.863% to be able to one shot 1k difficulty.

[Clubs Deuce]

they are not, but depending on how much you've grinded out other other ways of getting certain things, it doesn't matter that you can't kill it in one shot. The trick is realizing that combo boost increases based on your nuke quantity. The amount of time to do the same amount of damage doesn't change at all no matter what nuke level you use, so go as high as you can without the hp/def of the enemy getting overwhelming. Ignore scav for as long as you need.

Where I'm at currently it takes me about 15 seconds to kill it at 10k nuke. With a decently high rare drop rate I have a 50% chance (roughly) of spawning a rare reward for LPM. I reset after each successful kill, and in doing this, I'm currently at 1.22K% LPM. It works for base battle stats much the same. because I've grinded out my percents and 2 variants a lot, the 10s of Quints I get from each round does significant boosts at the moment.

It's likely out of reach to hit the one shot point, but you can still get excellent gains from it.

[Levail]

I'll add my 2 cents here, I'm 3 tapping 1000x ∮ with;
6.7 e77 attack
NRD 14.3%
1.23 e4 combo per hit

I'm doing this with 10000x scavenger and 0.293s per hit for an attack speed reference

Originally posted by Clubs Deuce:

... The trick is realizing that combo boost increases based on your nuke quantity. The amount of time to do the same amount of damage doesn't change at all no matter what nuke level you use, so go as high as you can without the hp/def of the enemy getting overwhelming...

Not quite, due to enemy scaling (hp specifically) the sweet spot is 1000x nuke, which also gives the lion's share of the rewards too. If you can manage to hit 2k then the rewards do cap out, but doing 2k 5 times will be faster than 10k even when combo multipliers are considered.

[Clubs Deuce]

You are well further along than I am friend, someday I hope to hold such might.

[Clubs Deuce]

Originally posted by Levail:

Not quite, due to enemy scaling (hp specifically) the sweet spot is 1000x nuke, which also gives the lion's share of the rewards too. If you can manage to hit 2k then the rewards do cap out, but doing 2k 5 times will be faster than 10k even when combo multipliers are considered.

Hmmm, not the experience I've had. Just tested for reference. It took me closer to 20 seconds to clear 10k kills on 1k nuke. I think it's faster at higher values (as long as your attack can beat the HP bloat) because you don't have to reset between kills. I only have to build my combo once, rather than 10 times. Are you referring to Loot rewards? I have it set to auto collect once it caps, and it does give you the full amount as long as you collect before a second kill happens.

[Levail]

Fortunately this one itself isn't one you need to grind out. LPM has greatly diminishing returns, and as your speed gets higher you'll eventually find that the game does have an extra hidden loot cap it can't exceed.
Rare loot chance does still have an effect, but only on very rare rolls which can be somewhat mitigated by the single guaranteed one we can force on a deliberate reroll.

[Levail]

Originally posted by Clubs Deuce:

Hmmm, not the experience I've had. Just tested for reference. It took me closer to 20 seconds to clear 10k kills on 1k nuke. I think it's faster at higher values (as long as your attack can beat the HP bloat) because you don't have to reset between kills. I only have to build my combo once, rather than 10 times. Are you referring to Loot rewards? I have it set to auto collect once it caps, and it does give you the full amount as long as you collect before a second kill happens.

Oh? That's actually quite interesting, I've never had a point where aiming for 10k nuke was better. The theory why is sound though...especially if you're using Lamé for the extra growth reduction.

[Clubs Deuce]

Not sure I fully follow that last bit. I can only assume you know what you're talking about with the hard loot cap, since I'm not that deep in yet, but for the rare loot chance, I'm not sure what you mean by forcing a reroll. Are you referring to loot or rewards?

The terminology for this stuff is too confusingly similar...

[Levail]

Originally posted by Clubs Deuce:

Not sure I fully follow that last bit. I can only assume you know what you're talking about with the hard loot cap, since I'm not that deep in yet, but for the rare loot chance, I'm not sure what you mean by forcing a reroll. Are you referring to loot or rewards?

The terminology for this stuff is too confusingly similar...

For the rare loot chance I'm talking about the blue/orange rewards in the grid, things like attack/hp/def etc.

Perhaps I farmed the normal rare drop rate before the patches introducing these most recent 2 enemies, but where I'm at a white reward has less than 0.01% chance to appear naturally.

As for the forced rare part, I mean the 2 additional reroll options above the standard with stop and start buttons. The uncommon and rare reroll buttons force at least one reward of that rarity.

[Clubs Deuce]

Okay, rewards, not loot. Again, confusing terminology. Yeah, you're probably a lot higher on base RDR than I am (16.9M) based on how high your other stats are. A bit of RDR2 was valuable for me, but I only took it up to 350%. I mostly use it for LPM and battle stats right now when my other variants on them are too far ahead to give me much in gains. Right now though I've moved back to Gamma for attack speed. I want that power you hold...

[Levail]

As for the hard loot cap, I'm talking about the bar down the bottom that fills up on kill.

I've hit a point where it just stops filling, the bar stays at 0 (although the number on the right still flashes red on kill). Raising my scavenger has no effect, but reducing it eventually starts causing it to fill again. I noticed more overall gains when reducing my scavenger to the point the loot bar starts filling, so from this I'm inferring there is an eventual hard cap on how much of these you can attain at once, even with the auto loot feature.

This makes it a little annoying because I was trying to use 4.000secs as an attack speed base to judge my most effective speed farm between the 3 types, but now there's a little voice in my head telling me I'm missing out on rewards when I do this, not to mention an actual decrease in speed2 rewards.

[Clubs Deuce]

While I can't speak to whether there's a hard loot cap at my current level, I think the state of the pink bar is just a matter of what number between 0 and 1M you wind up at after the attack. having it 'going up' doesn't really mean anything other than you're gaining more than xM + some amount that's visible on the bar.

[Levail]

Yes, this is absolutely true and will remain the case for most players.

I myself am at the point where I am getting ~1e15 full loot bars per kill, where it seems things start to break. The reason I raised this in the first place was just to highlight that the stat was not (currently) that important after a certain point is all.

[Clubs Deuce]

I'd say at where OP is it might still be valuable, but even at my point I'm not worried about it. I do wonder if it's a hard cap or a bug that you're running into though. Could just not be programmed to deal with loot that high. That said, returning to the topic, I think we can conclude that yes, it's possible to farm there, but probably not at one shot level yet.

[Mordtziel]

I see you two have had quite the conversation...

Originally posted by Clubs Deuce:

Originally posted by Levail:

Not quite, due to enemy scaling (hp specifically) the sweet spot is 1000x nuke, which also gives the lion's share of the rewards too. If you can manage to hit 2k then the rewards do cap out, but doing 2k 5 times will be faster than 10k even when combo multipliers are considered.

Hmmm, not the experience I've had. Just tested for reference. It took me closer to 20 seconds to clear 10k kills on 1k nuke. I think it's faster at higher values (as long as your attack can beat the HP bloat) because you don't have to reset between kills. I only have to build my combo once, rather than 10 times. Are you referring to Loot rewards? I have it set to auto collect once it caps, and it does give you the full amount as long as you collect before a second kill happens.

1k nuke is superior to 10k until you can two shot them both. Don't clear 1k nuke 10x, clear 1k nuke one time with 10x scavenger (or however high is readable for you). Count the hits. There are far less involved.

As for the loot discussion. I've not heard of a hard cap on it, but I'm not at e15, only e12~13 loot. But I do see mention of people getting e21 loot. So...I'm guessing something else is going on. I do know that difficulty plays a large rule in how much loot you get. That looks like...

11-2*1.15^(8-difficulty/10000)

...for difficulties >80k anyways. Which basically translates to: you will never exceed 1100%. As for why lower scavenger helps, I'm pretty sure battle reward plays into it (this much was obvious before we could fill it). The above formula is just for difficulty, not the full formula. Given that, Battle Upgrade 52 grants you more battle reward with nuke than with scavenger. Unfortunately, I don't know the full loot progress formula to verify. Though we can probably safely assume that LPM and battle reward both factor into it.

And in relation to my numbers in the op, the dev did tease the next enemy coming. It will have NRD as a rare drop, so those numbers may or may not be attainable depending on where that reward caps at when it arrives.

[Clubs Deuce]

Originally posted by Mordtziel:

1k nuke is superior to 10k until you can two shot them both. Don't clear 1k nuke 10x, clear 1k nuke one time with 10x scavenger (or however high is readable for you). Count the hits. There are far less involved.

23 seconds, even less efficient for me than doing 1k ten times.

EDIT: My mistake, I had a custom scav on when I did that, your method is indeed significantly faster. I suppose there's a sweet spot then. The only downside is you lose a small amount of reward multiplier this way, but not enough to make it less valuable.