Spiral Designs +variables

[silversleek]

Which ones are worth pursuing? I haven't bought a single one from the spiral point shop yet, instead opting to go into QoL and variables, for the primary reason of none of them actually telling me what the effects are. I presume the more expensive ones have better effects, but are they any better than the designs you start with or unlock from completing challenges? Do any have good passives? What's the best Design?

For variables, is it generally better to spread out what variables you get, or go all-in on a certain one? Like, should I max out 'A' before starting 'B'? Jump straight to G? I dunno

[☼|DB|☼ Randy]

Spoilers if that matters to you

Most impactful *active effects would be Blue dotted line (+100% line multiplier) & Orange purple winding (+100% Att/Def/Hp)

https://idle-spiral.fandom.com/wiki/Spiral_Design
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/idle-spiral/images/9/9c/Spiral_designs.png/revision/latest?cb=20220529144410

[Mordtziel]

I imagine exp is more impactful than atk/def/hp considering it applies to every difficulty and not just the last few, particularly for growth.

For variables, is it generally better to spread out what variables you get, or go all-in on a certain one? Like, should I max out 'A' before starting 'B'? Jump straight to G? I dunno

Outside of a particular challenge, they're all multiplied together, so you'll want it spread evenly for the most part. Though if you want to be hyper efficient...I believe a > b,c,d,e > f,g until about 60 digits or so of 'r' which will start transitioning to b,c,d,e > a > f,g. Not sure when the takeover point actually is though. Unless I have a misunderstanding of the 11th upgrade for 'r' myself.

[archmag]

Originally posted by Mordtziel:

I believe a > b,c,d,e > f,g until about 60 digits or so of 'r' which will start transitioning to b,c,d,e > a > f,g. Not sure when the takeover point actually is though. Unless I have a misunderstanding of the 11th upgrade for 'r' myself.

b is the best imho. It is much easier to increase than c, d, e, f, g (try to compare your current values now, my b is 14M while the highest next is 800K), so r11 simplified looks like a_=a*b/6*(1+r11/100)% because b is the main part of that sum. Which means A1=a*b^2*c*d*e*f*g (not counting some constants). This means that increasing b by 2x will increase A1 and as a result delta r by 4x, while increasing any other variable by 2x will only increase A1 and delta r by 2x.

Still even with b being much better there is some point when it is easier to increase variables that you neglected for higher resulting effect than keep forcing b.

And btw, this is based on an assumption and my personal experience that b is easier to increase (there is a new b+15% rare in Beta now) so it ends up much higher than all other parts of r11 with similar effort applied to all of them. If things change later and one of the other variables in that sum becomes easier to increase then focus should switch to it.

[Mordtziel]

a_=a*b/6*(1+r11/100)%

a gets multiplied? Why...

And I can agree, b will end up dominant. So maybe it ends up more of b > c,d,e > a > f,g?

[archmag]

Originally posted by Mordtziel:

a_=a*b/6*(1+r11/100)%

a gets multiplied? Why...

And I can agree, b will end up dominant. So maybe it ends up more of b > c,d,e > a > f,g?

That's how they show formulas. Remember the simple ones, like r2: "a+0.1"? This means a=a+0.1*r2. Or r7: "a, b, c, d, e + 1%"? This means a=a*(1+1*r7/100)

In case of r11 it means a=a*(1+(b+c+d+e+f+g)/6*(1+r11/10)/100). Because 1 is much less than the sum of those variables even mupliplied by r11/1000 we can remove it and then we have a simplified formula a=a*(b+c+d+e+f+g)/6*(1+r11/10)/100 (made a mistake in how I initially wrote it where I divided r11 by 100 instead of only 10). So with high enough numbers where second part becomes much higher than 1 we have a multiplied by this sum. And in this sum only the highest variable can be left if it is much higher than everything else, so r11 ends up as a=a*b*constant.

[Mordtziel]

...I dislike this formatting and feel it's misleading.

a += b/6*(1+r11*0.1)

We're basically on the same page I suppose.

[archmag]

Originally posted by Mordtziel:

...I dislike this formatting and feel it's misleading.

a += b/6*(1+r11*0.1)

We're basically on the same page I suppose.

a += b/6*(1+r11*0.1)%
or a *= b/6*(1+r11*0.1)*0.01 (if such operator as *= exists).

Yeah, you need to try some numbers to understand what they mean with their formulas sometimes.

[Mordtziel]

Er...oh hey look there's a % at the end of that multiplier at the end when I lower text size way down xD

(if such operator as *= exists)

It does. /= is also the division equivalent.