Another Veteran Completion Thoughts

[Fletcho]

Awesome game. I loved the removal of critical hits. Story was solid, and choices mattered. Replayed several chapters to see how the changes impacted the story.

I did Veteran - Randomized - Permadeath. I had everyone live to the end. I highly recommend having a 'what happened after' for each character sentence. It's the reward for pushing through and keeping everyone alive, and I want to know what the characters did after. Did Finn start a farm, become captain of the guard, hook up with melanie ect. Suikoden nailed this and I think it'd be easy to implement and an awesome reward to those who finish.

The nature of the game made shields almost mandatory. I would raise the AVO on two handers. I was able to basically push the shield wall into enemy range and cake walk most fights. Anyone without a shield felt too vulnarable and open to RNG, except Finn who's defense got so high it didn't matter if they hit him.

May not be balanced, but I took 8 people on missionds instead of the 14 (so i could sell everything else, forge them up, and stack experience). It worked, my guys were gods by the end, and I would suggest not changing that..it was fun as hell sending 1 guy down each of 4 lanes and having each kill a bunch in counters every turn.

All in all, good game. Thank you for making.

[eturulja]

Thank you for playing through and taking the time to leave your feedback! I think that's the first I've heard of a strategy that takes advantage of the ability to funnel a smaller party, I'm glad to see that an alternate way of playing like that worked out. Basically trying to maximize each individual characters potential.

I've heard split feedback on 1H + shield vs 2H so far with a lot of people saying 2H with refreshes was leaning on the strong side as they could butcher to many enemies on the player phase with 2H AoE. It's definitely meant to provide a risk/reward decision which I feel it is for the most part. But I agree if you're more inclined to move up steadily with a shield wall, it's difficult for most enemy groups to deal with it, bar a few of the ones that ignore shields like Rangers or enemies with 2H axes.

And as far as send offs at the end of the story, I don't know if I'll do an epilogue kind of thing for each character, but I do want to add more support conversations for side characters at the end as not many get time to reflect on the much more high stakes events playing out around them. Never played Suikoden, but I can try and take a look at what endings look like in a let's play. I'm assuming it's probably like the old school FEs?

And yeah I found critical hits add a little too much RNG in a game where almost every battle already has it in the form of HIT rates. I'm glad you agree with that decision I was expecting it to be more controversial!

Again, thank you for supporting the game and I really appreciate you sharing your feedback with me. Kudos on beating the game on the hardest difficulty on a more "unconventional" way!

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Fletcho:

The nature of the game made shields almost mandatory. I would raise the AVO on two handers. I was able to basically push the shield wall into enemy range and cake walk most fights. Anyone without a shield felt too vulnarable and open to RNG, except Finn who's defense got so high it didn't matter if they hit him.

At later levels optimized 2H characters can consistently kill 3-4 a turn. And Warlords can do that without dying from the retaliation due to high HP and relatively high Defense pool. But Skirmisher-based characters perhaps still may need more Avoidance. Still, the nature of RnG is that you will always be in danger of dying unless you have 100 percent Avoidance chance - which opens up another can of worms...

[Aiven]

Originally posted by Lampros:

At later levels optimized 2H characters can consistently kill 3-4 a turn. And Warlords can do that without dying from the retaliation due to high HP and relatively high Defense pool. But Skirmisher-based characters perhaps still may need more Avoidance. Still, the nature of RnG is that you will always be in danger of dying unless you have 100 percent Avoidance chance - which opens up another can of worms...

That's why i don't find sword AOE good idea. Horn bow is great. 2h polearm have good chance to hit and you can justify aoe. 2h swords not as much i belive. Better to backstab and not take chences.

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Aiven:

That's why i don't find sword AOE good idea. Horn bow is great. 2h polearm have good chance to hit and you can justify aoe. 2h swords not as much i belive. Better to backstab and not take chences.

Depends on the user and target though. For instance, Finn has no problem walking into a group of 5-6 and exposing his back! ;)

[Aiven]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Originally posted by Aiven:

That's why i don't find sword AOE good idea. Horn bow is great. 2h polearm have good chance to hit and you can justify aoe. 2h swords not as much i belive. Better to backstab and not take chences.

Depends on the user and target though. For instance, Finn has no problem walking into a group of 5-6 and exposing his back! ;)

16 mission it took 4 to kill him, he had a book and wolf (which is useless in this scenario). he had a same levels as foes.

[Kaghal]

I have to say after finishing a playthrough on Veteran and then reading this I was immediately interested in how far I could take it - I am now running a 4-man party, Marcus, Illyana, Slyker and Cedric. Chapter 8 was the hardest so far trying to figure out what objectives I could achieve while finishing the level. Also the crew were only level 16 vs level 14 enemies. Anyway, moving along well and even got Mel on the team and defeated the level 30 Rickard with them! :) Thanks for the inspiration.

[eturulja]

Originally posted by Kaghal:

I have to say after finishing a playthrough on Veteran and then reading this I was immediately interested in how far I could take it - I am now running a 4-man party, Marcus, Illyana, Slyker and Cedric. Chapter 8 was the hardest so far trying to figure out what objectives I could achieve while finishing the level. Also the crew were only level 16 vs level 14 enemies. Anyway, moving along well and even got Mel on the team and defeated the level 30 Rickard with them! :) Thanks for the inspiration.

You did WHAT? With only 4 characters? Rickard is getting a 10 level buff next patch lol.

Really interesting that you're able to split the group and still survive. I imagine Cedric is a priest so he can run between them much more efficiently? Otherwise I don't know how you'd keep them all alive with the low charges on bandages. Would be interested to know how they're not dying to pure attrition. Very cool run ideas!

[Kaghal]

By Chapter 8 they can run 2 bandages each. I am trying not to 'farm' levels or anything and to keep moving through them. I could only kill Rickard (and why I went with 4 characters instead of 3) because of a turn-refresh ability + waiting at the entrance for him so I could get behind him straight away. Everyone is equipped with highly forged weapons - so their only real downside is being flanked. That is the biggest challenge right now - finding the balance of killing/not opening up a big 'hit me from behind' type opening.

Chapter 9 killing Rickard, same strategy worked fine, took two goes as I wasn't sure what turn he spawned on.

I think if I ignored more objectives it would be easier, but I am greedy >_>

[Lampros]

Originally posted by eturulja:

You did WHAT? With only 4 characters? Rickard is getting a 10 level buff next patch lol.

Really interesting that you're able to split the group and still survive. I imagine Cedric is a priest so he can run between them much more efficiently? Otherwise I don't know how you'd keep them all alive with the low charges on bandages. Would be interested to know how they're not dying to pure attrition. Very cool run ideas!

Someone on the Blademaster said he thread trio-ed with just the starting 3 characters! ;)

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Kaghal:

By Chapter 8 they can run 2 bandages each. I am trying not to 'farm' levels or anything and to keep moving through them. I could only kill Rickard (and why I went with 4 characters instead of 3) because of a turn-refresh ability + waiting at the entrance for him so I could get behind him straight away. Everyone is equipped with highly forged weapons - so their only real downside is being flanked. That is the biggest challenge right now - finding the balance of killing/not opening up a big 'hit me from behind' type opening.

Chapter 9 killing Rickard, same strategy worked fine, took two goes as I wasn't sure what turn he spawned on.

I think if I ignored more objectives it would be easier, but I am greedy >_>

What classes are you running?

Edit: Also, what levels were your characters at the end and by chapter 8?

[Kaghal]

Slyker is a Scout/Commando - guaranteed two turns each round.
Marcus is a Raider/Berzerker - the extra damage and then an ability to play him a bit more dangerously has been nice.
Illyana is an assassin - can't remember name of the level 10 - but the avoid enemy area is her jam. She is running a 2H sword, bow and stilleto + Elk effigy. Meaning she can refresh from backstab/stilleto/two kills in a turn, just have to make sure not to trigger two at once as this just means +1 turn.

I think by the end of chapter 8 they were level 17-18, as I said I haven't tried any gimmicky farming strategies, I am sure they could be much higher. I'm still trying to finish the levels fairly quickly. The only things I've missed in terms of objectives so far is: Finn and 2 Burning embers (was close to both). Otherwise, got all chests on the ship etc too. While possible with the starting three I think four means objectives are possible, with sometimes a modicum of luck required though.

Edit: Up to Chapter 14 now - The characters are level 27, lot more enemies to kill in the intervening chapters and they are becoming beastly now, I think it will be easy enough from here on in.

[Sigismund's Wrath]

This sounds fun, I'm definitely gonna run a small squad next playthrough

[Lampros]

Originally posted by Kaghal:

Slyker is a Scout/Commando - guaranteed two turns each round.
Marcus is a Raider/Berzerker - the extra damage and then an ability to play him a bit more dangerously has been nice.
Illyana is an assassin - can't remember name of the level 10 - but the avoid enemy area is her jam. She is running a 2H sword, bow and stilleto + Elk effigy. Meaning she can refresh from backstab/stilleto/two kills in a turn, just have to make sure not to trigger two at once as this just means +1 turn.

I think by the end of chapter 8 they were level 17-18, as I said I haven't tried any gimmicky farming strategies, I am sure they could be much higher. I'm still trying to finish the levels fairly quickly. The only things I've missed in terms of objectives so far is: Finn and 2 Burning embers (was close to both). Otherwise, got all chests on the ship etc too. While possible with the starting three I think four means objectives are possible, with sometimes a modicum of luck required though.

Thanks. I frankly found Slyker mediocre as both Scout/Commando and Lancer/Marshal. So I was interested to know if anyone tried him as Hero/Lionheart. I doubt it'd be any more effective though. He's too much of a jack-of-all-trades/master-of-nothing character. Neither quite the stats for a DPS nor for a tank.

Wait, so you saved all the villagers, too? ;)

Originally posted by Sigismund's Wrath:

This sounds fun, I'm definitely gonna run a small squad next playthrough

I am not good enough to try a three or a four-man run; I am doing a 12-man run now, the wuss I am! ;)

[Kaghal]

Originally posted by Lampros:

Wait, so you saved all the villagers, too? ;)

Oooh good point - I think I only saved 4 - which from another thread means I got no rewards. Sacrifices had to be made...

[Leninade]

Keep in mind that if make slyker a scout, if he’s near a marked enemy, you buff the hit of an ally by like 30 or so points, plus the -def the enemy gets as well. This is part of why alone he’s not so great, but paired up with someone like abi, also as scout/commando and bright feathers, they can do some serious work.