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And I mean that
SS: */Enlightened
S: Rogue/Blademaster, Scout/Commando, Acolyte/*
A: */Ranger, */Commando, */Blademaster, Rogue/Assassin
B: Warrior/Warlord, Anyone that can use a bow
C: Everything else
- Mobility is the most important part of the game. If you can always hit the enemy from the back, you'll win.
- Doing a lot of damage is the next most important part of the game. If the enemy is dead, you'll win. Hitting more targets results in more damage. Hitting more often results in more damage.
- Extra turns lets you both move and do more damage.
The tier list is just units that give you more move and more hits. Every class that has a way to get a bonus turn is inherently more valuable than others. Enlightened 'only' give you extra move, but it's a huge amount of move and it potentially applies to everyone in the team. Ranger is the special case here; precise attack deals with a specific (but common) problem and more importantly lets you replace an axeguy. Finally, anyone with a bow can always contribute, even if it's not the ideal unit.
That looks really accurate
I have not obtained all the classes yet
Awesome! Could you cross-post here, too? ;)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1822060/discussions/0/603021130830223677/?tscn=1738517593
In my veteran playthrough, my most useful characters are a Healer-Priest-Paladin, a Skirmisher-Rogue-Assassin, and a Skirmisher-Blade-Blademaster.
How effective is my way of playing?
With my team, on Veteran...
- In the burning town, the map was clear of enemies on turn 7.
- The second time Rycard appeared, I took him out without taunts or getting him stuck. Just a train of backstabs, and I had two left to go when he went down.
- During the abordage fight, all chests were opened, all objectives were completed, and all enemies were dead at turn 8. Four more showed up on turn 9, and characters listed by Tony as middling (Tier A) took two each, the same turn, with 100% chance of success.
There are composite screenshots on the Discord server, if anyone doubts the claims.
Thus said, Noules's list will probably match that of people playing with a strong defensive line, and ordered formation. I mostly play with a swarm of super-killer orbiting a core of the remaining characters who focus on keeping safe.
FWIW my team also killed Richard on Ajax's stage, cleared the boat stage with all loot and objectives, and got all the loot from stage 15.. My tier list is about high mobility enablers (Enlightened) and high DPS through multiple turns, hits, and targets (greatsword/polearm with bows backing them). It has nothing to do with a 'strong defensive line'.
Second, you are saying that, just like me, you rely on Assassins, Blademasters and Commandos to do the heavy lifting, but rank them two tiers from the top, and leave that to a support class that saves them some moves? When I let my killers loose, they can get through the map in one turn on their own, by killing enemies, moving to the next ones, and doing it again.
Sure, a team of 3-4 four Enlightened will allow you to do two turns worth of traveling for free, allowing you to get through the map faster. Or, you could get 2 assassins and 2 blademasters, and just clear a wide swath through half the map, while another set of killers clears the other side, so you do not have to shlepp them around.
I am not saying that your way does not work, but I am saying that you're making Enlightened sound better than they are, and not giving enough credit to the Assassins and Blademasters.
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I will ask you. On the ship map, did you end the 7th turn with ONE enemy remaining? Because I did, and the only reason I left him alive until then is that I had chests to open. The Rogue who killed his way from the NW corner of the map to the SE corner in four turns, raking more than two kills per turn in the process, still needed two full turns to open the two chests.
Even if you did, that is not reason to rank Enlightened two tiers higher than blademasters, or rank assassins as worse than average. It just shows that there are different strategies that work well.
Calling assassins 'A tier' does not mean they are below average. That's a ridiculous mischaracterization. They, with commandos and blademasters, are the top damage class options.
While the top damage options are extremely strong, they don't scale with the group the way Enlightened do. I concede that how much you value support vs. damage is both subjective and dependent on the encounter, but the key point is that Enlightened make the entire group better, and having more increases their effectiveness superlinearly.
The tier listing doesn't assert that Enlightened are necessary to win, or are the only viable strat. But the utility they provide is unparalleled, while the damage options, excellent as they are, have viable alternatives.
While the last statement may be true, it does not justify the ridiculous rankings.
Enlightened are useful. They are certainly not three tiers ahead of classes that can clear the whole map. A party stuffed with Enlightened is suboptimal. It moves quickly, and kills slowly, or at least slower than a party with one enlightened for emergencies, and more damage dealers.
If we were ranking classes for the "unparalleled services they provide", we should rank sentinels SSSΣCCسسس tier, because they can switch place with another friendly, and that is certainly a rare ability.
"Amateurs talk tactics, professionals study logistics." While trite, the quote is reference that having more stuff in the right place is often more valuable than incremental superiority of any one element.
Rating Enlightened highly doesn't mean that just having Enlightened is the best composition. What it is implying is that Enlightened have the most impact on the team as a whole on a per-unit basis, and not having one is more of loss than not having one of any other class. I can replace any one of assassins/commandos/blademasters as a whole easier than Enlightened and still have a strong team.
'Three tiers' doesn't really mean much here. I thought it was clear, but the 'SS' rank is more tongue-in-cheek to highlight the additional value provided by Cartography vs. the also-strong acolyte Vital Points. If your objection is that I rated assassin lower than the other two main damage options, I've explained my position on that on other threads; while I generally stand by that assessment, it's more of a personal preference and I wouldn't argue if other people ranked the top damage options differently.
As for Sentinels, I actually did run one throughout most of the campaign precisely for the position swap. It's useful on occasion. But it's not 3 extra move to everyone in the group useful, nor an extra turn every 3 rounds useful, which is why they aren't as good as an Enlightened Acolyte.