new player, curious to know what went wrong

[Grink "V.F" da Boy]

i never played during the beta but im told that the game is much less fun to play than it was during the beta period. what exactly went wrong?

[Chibbix]

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1818750/discussions/0/4331979056058387877/

Dude list them all in this thread.

[Ink Hyaena]

Originally posted by Sleepy Sniper Sleepy Sniper Slpy:

Mostly people don't like the live service payment model and reduction in game speed and zoom (I prefer it this way than the beta).

Personally I'm not a fan of the speed. Needs to be just a bit faster bc it doesn't quite feel natural. The zoom is too much though. They need to zoom it out a bit; not like it was during the beta, but not like now where I literally cannot even see the stage floor to land when I'm fighting an opponent higher up and risk completely falling off just bc I couldn't see the ground.

[Septon]

The game is better like that. The beta version was too fast for it's own good, and when you have beautiful well-animated characters it's cool to actually see them so the zoomed view is welcome.

[Chibbix]

Originally posted by Septon:

The game is better like that. The beta version was too fast for it's own good, and when you have beautiful well-animated characters it's cool to actually see them so the zoomed view is welcome.

I don't care for how fast the beta was, but the speed now is quite slow.

"How can I find a sauce that's right for me?"

[AndyT2G]

I personally think it's a lot better. It still needs a lot more work, but I like the direction they're taking.

[Justin]

The game feels like it plays a bit slower than the beta but I'm fine with that. My only real issue with the game is the zoom, just let me see the entire map or put in different zoom levels. Other than that I'm really enjoying the game.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by Grink "V.F" da Boy:

i never played during the beta but im told that the game is much less fun to play than it was during the beta period. what exactly went wrong?

It's mainly the game speed, but that's an oversimplification. Depending on what character you were using during the beta, that character was harshly nerfed by the time the game came back online.

Delay is noticeably longer on certain moves, many combos were taken out of the game (by making them no longer chain), some multi-hit moves no longer reliably hit more than once, some attacks are no longer safe when they used to be, the literal movement speed and/or reach of some moves and characters was toned down, etc.

And keep in mind, that's all at the same time as Dodge being nerfed into the ground. Dodge let you move MUCH faster during the beta, since there was less of a delay between dodges and the dodge meter was an afterthought, it wasn't limited (in practice) like it is now.

Regarding combos, the link Chibbix gave you as the first answer for instance mentions "no more grounded neutral air", but without any context, you might not know what that means. Jumping into an aerial attack mid-combo was how a lot of characters did their longer combos, so taking it out deleted all of those combos from the game without replacing them with anything.

On a semi-related note, they also removed a mechanic called Attack Decay. This made it so if you used the same attack over and over again with nothing inbetween, it would do significantly less damage and less knockback.

Put that all together and you have a slower, yet still spammier, game than just about any other fighting game in existence including other platform fighters.

---

And just as an aside, it didn't really help the game's casual playability, either. Anyone coming from other fighters, especially Brawlhalla, are going to notice something wrong here. Stuff that should work simply doesn't. Your moves don't come out when you want them to. Hitboxes are strange and don't make any sense. There's cheese everywhere.

Not a lot of thought was given to creating a snappy, responsive experience, basically.

[DilleyWilley]

Honestly, the only people I've seen cry about the game are the 1v1 crowd. They ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and moaned during the beta that 1v1 sucked while knowing it was made with 2v2 in mind. Devs reworked the combat and slowed it down and now that's all they whine about.

I loved the game during the beta and I love it now. I've had fun with it and that's all that matters to me. Play it and judge it for yourself, everyone is going to have differing opinions and it really doesn't matter. Only way to find out if you'll like it or not is if you play it yourself.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by DilleyWilley:

Honestly, the only people I've seen cry about the game are the 1v1 crowd. They ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and moaned during the beta that 1v1 sucked while knowing it was made with 2v2 in mind. Devs reworked the combat and slowed it down and now that's all they whine about.

I loved the game during the beta and I love it now. I've had fun with it and that's all that matters to me. Play it and judge it for yourself, everyone is going to have differing opinions and it really doesn't matter. Only way to find out if you'll like it or not is if you play it yourself.

I ONLY play 2v2.

They removed the team bonus from most of the perks in the game, but you also can't switch characters OR individual perks after matching with someone, which means you can't match your character or your perks with your teammate at all anymore.

They gave everyone that bogus 5% damage+defense signature perk as a default (and didn't put anything else on any of the starter decks ()), so half the people you match with still have it on. Even if they have a signature perk that would have been better in teams, they either don't have it unlocked, or they don't have it equipped.

They didn't directly add or subtract any in-game team mechanics, but they DID drastically reduce hitstun since combos aren't allowed to last as long anymore, which means chaining hitstun with your partner is harder than it used to be.

They also didn't fix anything that was wrong with 2v2, so your partner can still just jump off the map and throw the game since Stocks are still shared. And this isn't uncommon. Heck, it's even a little worse than that right now since the Desynchronization error is more common with 4 people in the game.

And before I forget, they removed stats from the post-game screen, which mattered more in 2v2, and there's still no way to chat, emote, or even send a friend request to anyone you were playing with. Just a Toast you're limited to 5 a day on.

Besides the occasional "or your teammate" in the Move Lists, I wouldn't blame people for thinking this game was built for 1v1. They certainly went out of their way to take a dump on the most team-oriented characters like Velma and Reindog. I think we care more about that whole "made for 2v2" thing than the devs do at this point.

[Pigeon Chest]

All you need to know is that Player First Games has 0 qualified personnel hired onto their team.

Not a single human involved in this game has worked on previous Platform Fighting Games- not even slightly.

You have "Daniel Kraft" who is a General Programmer for League of Legends
You have "Katie Hancock" who is the Production Lead, she comes from "FoxNext" and "Disney Interactive"- her abilities are Art, and finding outsourced people for Art.
and then
You have "Craig Louie" who is the Principal System Designer, he comes from the Call of Duty Franchise because he wasn't good enough for that dumpster fire of a franchise.


So as you can see the 3 main people responsible for the balance and layout of this game have no idea what the hell they're doing.

[DilleyWilley]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by DilleyWilley:

Honestly, the only people I've seen cry about the game are the 1v1 crowd. They ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ and moaned during the beta that 1v1 sucked while knowing it was made with 2v2 in mind. Devs reworked the combat and slowed it down and now that's all they whine about.

I loved the game during the beta and I love it now. I've had fun with it and that's all that matters to me. Play it and judge it for yourself, everyone is going to have differing opinions and it really doesn't matter. Only way to find out if you'll like it or not is if you play it yourself.

I ONLY play 2v2.

They removed the team bonus from most of the perks in the game, but you also can't switch characters OR individual perks after matching with someone, which means you can't match your character or your perks with your teammate at all anymore.

They gave everyone that bogus 5% damage+defense signature perk as a default (and didn't put anything else on any of the starter decks ()), so half the people you match with still have it on. Even if they have a signature perk that would have been better in teams, they either don't have it unlocked, or they don't have it equipped.

They didn't directly add or subtract any in-game team mechanics, but they DID drastically reduce hitstun since combos aren't allowed to last as long anymore, which means chaining hitstun with your partner is harder than it used to be.

They also didn't fix anything that was wrong with 2v2, so your partner can still just jump off the map and throw the game since Stocks are still shared. And this isn't uncommon. Heck, it's even a little worse than that right now since the Desynchronization error is more common with 4 people in the game.

And before I forget, they removed stats from the post-game screen, which mattered more in 2v2, and there's still no way to chat, emote, or even send a friend request to anyone you were playing with. Just a Toast you're limited to 5 a day on.

Besides the occasional "or your teammate" in the Move Lists, I wouldn't blame people for thinking this game was built for 1v1. They certainly went out of their way to take a dump on the most team-oriented characters like Velma and Reindog. I think we care more about that whole "made for 2v2" thing than the devs do at this point.

At the end of the day it's all subjective. I agree with you on some points, but it doesn't matter in the context of what the original poster was asking. I was giving my opinion on the negativity of this game based off of what I've seen.

[Beefcakes]

As someone who played the beta, I like all the changes. I like the slower feeling game, but it still feels like somethings missing, like items. I also think stages like the basket ball court should just shoot out the balls and start knocking people around rather then having them thrown. They have those special rift effects and it would be nice to roll those on match up randomly.

Part of me also thinks its how big the characters are as well as how small stages are. People always use the giant as an example, but even jason's head stick through some platforms and hes a new guy. I see a lot of post wanting crazy combos and ranked styled counter play, but to me this is just a silly haha smash clone. The truth is you dont need to see damage numbers and allowing swaps when you rematch defeats the point of the button.

[Netsa]

Originally posted by DilleyWilley:

At the end of the day it's all subjective. I agree with you on some points, but it doesn't matter in the context of what the original poster was asking. I was giving my opinion on the negativity of this game based off of what I've seen.

OP asked why people think the game is less fun than the beta. I rambled a bit, but the new perk system is a real issue, along with the lack of community features.

[DilleyWilley]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Originally posted by DilleyWilley:

At the end of the day it's all subjective. I agree with you on some points, but it doesn't matter in the context of what the original poster was asking. I was giving my opinion on the negativity of this game based off of what I've seen.

OP asked why people think the game is less fun than the beta. I rambled a bit, but the new perk system is a real issue, along with the lack of community features.

That's fair.

[KripTed]

Beta was better. Faster game play, and even better performance. Servers weren't as crap as they are now either. Was still a grindy pay to win game though.