Bugs Bunny and T&J have no hurtbox

[Infevo]

They cannot be hit while being the fastest characters as MAGES. Whoever thought of this design, is a really bad developer and/or aggressively unintelligent. Bugs loves to jump a lot. Increase his hurtbox when he is in the air by 100% AT LEAST.
Same goes for Jake. This character consists of a permanent huge hitbox. Can't get near him. Superman''s machine gun punches connect when standing behind him. I can't recall how often I tried to whiff punish him by attempting attacking him while he clearly was not remotely hitting me. He still gets the combo somehow. Not even going to speak about Finn at this point. He is a sad story by itself.
Velma is a complete joke being able to ring out people AS A SUPPORT from full screen range. How is she stronger than mages at what they should be best at and still have exceptional normals to compete with bruisers?

It is just not fun to play against this garbage. And it is an embarrassment to release the game in this state and ask for any money.

[pasadena]

batman is the fastest character, and i do agree the state the open beta was released in is terrible and it sucks to play without the balance & hitbox patch because of dumbass delays

[Netsa]

Unless they're on MY team, then they only have hurtboxes and no hitboxes.
Seriously, just saw a Bugs that didn't throw a single projectile for the whole round.

[Infevo]

Originally posted by Netsa:

Unless they're on MY team, then they only have hurtboxes and no hitboxes.
Seriously, just saw a Bugs that didn't throw a single projectile for the whole round.

To be fair, they don't need it. All they need is to jump around and swing their bat, jump in with side air or neutral air. And they just cannot be hit while having ridiculous frame data on their moves and hitboxes.
You clearly can see that the devs didn't put any thinking into their design at all. I went at great lengths speaking about fundamental design flaws of this game on other occasions and barely did touch on balance. It is completely disgusting what you have to deal with here...

[Sayla Massochist]

Originally posted by Infevo:

Originally posted by Netsa:

Unless they're on MY team, then they only have hurtboxes and no hitboxes.
Seriously, just saw a Bugs that didn't throw a single projectile for the whole round.

To be fair, they don't need it. All they need is to jump around and swing their bat, jump in with side air or neutral air. And they just cannot be hit while having ridiculous frame data on their moves and hitboxes.
You clearly can see that the devs didn't put any thinking into their design at all. I went at great lengths speaking about fundamental design flaws of this game on other occasions and barely did touch on balance. It is completely disgusting what you have to deal with here...

This is also the developments studios first game and they probably wanted to stand out from Smash Bros mechanically and with the announcement that they are reworking hurt/hit box system from the ground up hopefully they have learned that Smash has certain mechanics for a reason, ala hit priorities and such.

[Infevo]

Originally posted by Sayla Massochist:

This is also the developments studios first game and they probably wanted to stand out from Smash Bros mechanically and with the announcement that they are reworking hurt/hit box system from the ground up hopefully they have learned that Smash has certain mechanics for a reason, ala hit priorities and such.

Hit priority is not the problem here. It would only matter when two hitboxes were active at the same frame (intersecting opposing hurtboxes). This is rarely the case in MV. Here we have just ridiculously overtuned hit and hurt boxes that further don't make any sense in the context of character speeds. If you get hit by Finn's backpack while spiking him then it has nothing to do with a lack of hit prio but his hit box just connecting earlier than yours which simply is the consequence of being so huge. This is why we see so much scrubby garbage with characterized by the triad
a) low risk
b) high reward
c) no skill required.

I guarantee you nothing would change if they introduced hit prio. In Smash it kinda makes sense due to the frame data and how hit boxes expand. Here it's neglectable.

[Netsa]

Bugs's aerials do actually do too much knockback, in my opinion. Even if their hitboxes are reduced, they kill a bit too easily compared to characters that actually specialize in aerials. Imagine if Arya's up-air hit as hard as Bugs's up-air?

[Sayla Massochist]

Originally posted by Infevo:

Originally posted by Sayla Massochist:

This is also the developments studios first game and they probably wanted to stand out from Smash Bros mechanically and with the announcement that they are reworking hurt/hit box system from the ground up hopefully they have learned that Smash has certain mechanics for a reason, ala hit priorities and such.

Hit priority is not the problem here. It would only matter when two hitboxes were active at the same frame (intersecting opposing hurtboxes). This is rarely the case in MV. Here we have just ridiculously overtuned hit and hurt boxes that further don't make any sense in the context of character speeds. If you get hit by Finn's backpack while spiking him then it has nothing to do with a lack of hit prio but his hit box just connecting earlier than yours which simply is the consequence of being so huge. This is why we see so much scrubby garbage with characterized by the triad
a) low risk
b) high reward
c) no skill required.

I guarantee you nothing would change if they introduced hit prio. In Smash it kinda makes sense due to the frame data and how hit boxes expand. Here it's neglectable.

At the moment I am willing to chalk it up to inexperience developing these types of games and not just incompetence. The game is surprisingly polished in a lot of ways, at least in its overall presentation. I'd give them a chance to remake their hit/hurt box system and potentially rekit characters (Taz is already confirmed to be getting a complete rekit) before ringing any alarm bells. They do need to learn that not every has or wants to read their game updates on Twitter and make either an in game news feed or utilize Steams built in one.

[GuudBooi]

Tbh i feel like velma is and should be a mage

[Axulfer]

Yeah not going to lie, Mages are too strong, they should not have the best dairs and up airs in the game as the they currently do.

[Jellybones]

Mages definitely need their close up game nerfed a bit. I imagine hitbox stuff will do that for them a bit, because T&J's regular jabs will hit a bit behind him too despite the animation. Bugs is already getting nerfed, it's just not known how right now I think. So is Velma, so that just leaves T&J up in the air. Honestly aside from the close up stuff T&J don't feel too unfair for me right now.

[Infevo]

Originally posted by Jellybones:

Mages definitely need their close up game nerfed a bit. I imagine hitbox stuff will do that for them a bit, because T&J's regular jabs will hit a bit behind him too despite the animation. Bugs is already getting nerfed, it's just not known how right now I think. So is Velma, so that just leaves T&J up in the air. Honestly aside from the close up stuff T&J don't feel too unfair for me right now.

I just don't see why they should be next to unhittable due to their small hurtboxes and high speed/mobility/utility. They should be removed from the game until fixed. This cannot be intended...

Tanks should also be robbed of one air option (one less dodge for example).

And supports should not be super safe low risk damage dealers that have exceptional spikes and up-airs.

This game is a total mess.

[Hajko]

It's funny how fast they nerfed taz but bugs bunny is same problem but we need to wait for next patch 🤷🏻

[Infevo]

Originally posted by Hajko Peeterson:

It's funny how fast they nerfed taz but bugs bunny is same problem but we need to wait for next patch 🤷🏻

Bugs is pre-nerf Taz on crack. Did I mention he has combos that carry half-screen and lead into ring outs and 0 to D setplay? And T&J will be the next huge issue once people figure him out.

[GuudBooi]

Tbh mages should get 15% more damage like assassins do.
They have great finishers and are very fast other than having great combos and killing potential.

[Infevo]

Alt+F4 every single match with Bugs, T&J, Finn, Velma and Jake until they fix these abominations...

It is crazy how fast this game became absolute dog trash due to these characters alone.