Deep Flaws in PVP, Solutions for Fixing Them.

[a weed]

PVP is deeply flawed in this game. People camp important quest locations and hot spots for kills, but kills don't reward you with anything valuable, they just screw some other poor sap over. Or worse, make you screw someone else over, just because they're red and you're green, it's you or them.

I believe people should be able to play both a PvE server, and a full-loot PVP server.
To discourage camping, popular camping spots should be made incredibly radioactive (deadly), so that only high-tier science suits can survive there. Since high-tier and low-tier players are separated, this means the vast majority of locations will see an incredible reduction in camping, and the camping that does take place will be much easier to combat as people are forced into more exposed positions.
For example, if you make the bridge and cliff areas of the Cordon too radioactive for anyone to camp there, they will be forced to camp in the woods or inside of the Cordon itself.
This puts campers either out of the way of quest objectives, or perfectly exposed to be picked off by the opposing side, or killed in a raid.

PvP currently gives no valuable rewards. Lost bags mean you don't even get materials from killing people.
I think if the game wants to retain the lost bag system, while still making PvP gratifying, there should be dogtags, and perhaps territory-control systems. Say, you control a certain territory and get materials and buffs for controlling it. This will push PvP out of quest locations and toward certain hotspots. This will also encourage the mixing of PvP and PvE, since buffs toward say, more loot gains from wiping settlements, will encourage people to take territories for greater gains for their friends.
Dogtags can be traded for unique loot, materials, kept as a momento, or sold for rubles.
This will make it more valuable to kill higher-level people, and make it more gratifying to overcome them as a newer player.

I also think that defensive gear should outpace offensive gear.
Since gun progression is pretty straight forward and boring due to a lack of proper balance, most people are gonna be using the same weapons that kill you in one or two hits.
My suggestion is to buff defense in some way. Maybe early-game bullet resistance artifacts, maybe just making bullet resistance higher, maybe just adding new systems entirely, I don't know for that one. Or making weapons weaker somehow, like shoddy bullets or lowering guns by one tier. Making other weapons more viable would be nice too, either by making the other ones weaker or making them stronger, whichever is easier.

[The Skip]

Publicado originalmente por a weed:

Publicado originalmente por Vororo:

pretty sure dying and being constantly afraid of it is part of the game. I don't understand what people mean by claiming that PvP is pointless and doesn't reward you. If you kill a fresh spawn, sure, maybe, but have none of you ever killed someone carrying a good haul? some artifacts and thousands of roubles in mutant parts? some good ap ammo? there's plenty that's not considered a crafting material and you can absolutely use. And, hypothetically speaking, if they did let us open others backpacks to use crafting materials then who would bother farming when you could just camp enemy routes and progress that way putting no effort in clearing camps. The developers WANT you to go out there and spend hours farming event spots, its a free MMO, grinding is part of the game and I find it fun.

We can't have everything the way we want. Suggestions are always welcome but some of these are just awful and have little logical thinking into it. "I just want this because I don't like it the way it is" isn't valid. The zone is hostile and unwelcoming, many of you will die trying to snatch an artifact in a black hole, many will fall trying to move through dangerous zones. Many zones will NOT have spawn points. You are supposed to take it slow, move carefully and USE THE ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ RADAR AT THE TOP RIGHT CORNER. IT STOPS PEOPLE FROM "CAMPING" YOU. Oh yeah and lastly...
EVERYONE IS AN OPPORTUNISTIC ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. YOU ARE NOT ENTILTED TO BE GIVEN A FAIR AND FUN EXPERIENCE, YOU HAVE TO BE OPORTUNISTIC AND SMART TOO. EVEN YOUR TEAMMATES WILL STEAL YOUR ♥♥♥♥ GIVEN THE CHANCE, TOUGHEN UP.

There's nothing wrong with "constantly dying and being constantly afraid of it". The issue is when there's no reward.
A few rubles that you could farm in five minutes?
Artifacts so rare you'd have the same chance finding them yourself, let alone on someone else's corpse?
Ammo you could just... buy?
The rewards from PvP are still entirely ♥♥♥♥♥.
The primary suggestions I've been giving are around making PvP intrinsically provide materials and benefits for progression.
Of course, my initial suggestion mentioned RETAINING the lost bag system, I never once said you should be allowed to open them. If that were an option, though, I don't think it'd make everyone stop farming, provided there are other checks implemented to ensure people either won't want to, or won't be able to. As of now, the only thing you can do with Lost bags is ransom them on the auction. if they want to keep this system, they should just fully implement a ransom/bribery system. Leaving it up to the players is wholly unsatisfying.
As I initially suggested, many camping locations could easily be annihilated by better map design. More anomalies and extreme radiation can make many spots unusable, forcing people into exposed positions.
I personally haven't found campers to be much of an issue due to the ease of radar, in fact I kill plenty of campers just running around the map.
The issue is likely exacerbated at higher-level areas, though. So I wouldn't say campers aren't an issue.
I understand you want this to be a hardcore, grindy game, but the issue is that you're completely against making it rewarding or fun. If the developers want us to waste hours of our life grinding event spots, mindlessly mowing down NPCs, then that's pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥, and could be improved upon. If they want us to get murdered by campers that radar doesn't magically fix, that's pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
That's the whole point of this thread. Suggesting fixes to make the game more fun without compromising its integrity.
I played a lot of Tarkov, which is opportunism at its zenith. That game, in comparison to this one, is much, MUCH more rewarding to PvP in.
In Tarkov, you kill someone, you can get several million of items worth in rubles, an inventory of guns to play with, incredibly rare ammo, ect.
In this game, you kill someone, the best you get is some rubiks cubes, a lost bag (that they won't buy back), and some AP ammo.
Again, if you want this game to be as hardcore as you imagine it, wouldn't it make sense to make PvP more valuable?
Oh no, my friend killed me for my six mutant skins and three mutant intestines, whatever am I gonna do???
You see, this "Hardcore" experience means nothing if we're fighting over ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Dude, you haven't even played 50% of the game to claim that pvp is not profitable. I got 150k for one person right now (and how many more can I find along the way, think about it). Of course, at the beginning pvp has content only for pleasure and self-affirmation, but in the future it is a VERY good way to earn money. And please, let's not say anything more about the fact that pvp IS NOT a way of making money. In addition, somewhere in one of the comments you suggested that the quest zones should have extreme radiation, please tell me, do you think with your head? WHY WOULD A PERSON CRAFT A FINISHED SCIENTIFIC SUIT? this is simply unnecessary garbage! you're better off making a collection of radiation/bio survival artifacts for a battle suit than crafting a scientific

[a weed]

Publicado originalmente por TANKOVIK:

Okay, guys, I understand what you want. Believe me, many people wanted this even before entering Steam. But if the developers do so, it will radically change the system itself, which they have been building for about 5 years. So, with a high degree of probability, nothing will be changed in this direction.
And from above I also wrote to you how else you can diversify the gameplay, so go ahead) Good night)

"high degree of probability" means nothing.
Change doesn't come from disbelief.
This thread exists to incur change. As the discussion continues, the chances of it being noticed increase.

[a weed]

Publicado originalmente por 5点目まで貫通:

Publicado originalmente por a weed:

There's nothing wrong with "constantly dying and being constantly afraid of it". The issue is when there's no reward.
A few rubles that you could farm in five minutes?
Artifacts so rare you'd have the same chance finding them yourself, let alone on someone else's corpse?
Ammo you could just... buy?
The rewards from PvP are still entirely ♥♥♥♥♥.
The primary suggestions I've been giving are around making PvP intrinsically provide materials and benefits for progression.
Of course, my initial suggestion mentioned RETAINING the lost bag system, I never once said you should be allowed to open them. If that were an option, though, I don't think it'd make everyone stop farming, provided there are other checks implemented to ensure people either won't want to, or won't be able to. As of now, the only thing you can do with Lost bags is ransom them on the auction. if they want to keep this system, they should just fully implement a ransom/bribery system. Leaving it up to the players is wholly unsatisfying.
As I initially suggested, many camping locations could easily be annihilated by better map design. More anomalies and extreme radiation can make many spots unusable, forcing people into exposed positions.
I personally haven't found campers to be much of an issue due to the ease of radar, in fact I kill plenty of campers just running around the map.
The issue is likely exacerbated at higher-level areas, though. So I wouldn't say campers aren't an issue.
I understand you want this to be a hardcore, grindy game, but the issue is that you're completely against making it rewarding or fun. If the developers want us to waste hours of our life grinding event spots, mindlessly mowing down NPCs, then that's pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥, and could be improved upon. If they want us to get murdered by campers that radar doesn't magically fix, that's pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥.
That's the whole point of this thread. Suggesting fixes to make the game more fun without compromising its integrity.
I played a lot of Tarkov, which is opportunism at its zenith. That game, in comparison to this one, is much, MUCH more rewarding to PvP in.
In Tarkov, you kill someone, you can get several million of items worth in rubles, an inventory of guns to play with, incredibly rare ammo, ect.
In this game, you kill someone, the best you get is some rubiks cubes, a lost bag (that they won't buy back), and some AP ammo.
Again, if you want this game to be as hardcore as you imagine it, wouldn't it make sense to make PvP more valuable?
Oh no, my friend killed me for my six mutant skins and three mutant intestines, whatever am I gonna do???
You see, this "Hardcore" experience means nothing if we're fighting over ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Dude, you haven't even played 50% of the game to claim that pvp is not profitable. I got 150k for one person right now (and how many more can I find along the way, think about it). Of course, at the beginning pvp has content only for pleasure and self-affirmation, but in the future it is a VERY good way to earn money. And please, let's not say anything more about the fact that pvp IS NOT a way of making money. In addition, somewhere in one of the comments you suggested that the quest zones should have extreme radiation, please tell me, do you think with your head? WHY WOULD A PERSON CRAFT A FINISHED SCIENTIFIC SUIT? this is simply unnecessary garbage! you're better off making a collection of radiation/bio survival artifacts for a battle suit than crafting a scientific

I said popular camping spots, not quest spots.
Also, again, money is so easy to make it means ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Damian Dam-Dam]

Money making the moment you reach bar is so stupid easy, you can farm hundreds of thousands in a single day, and you don't even need artifacts to get that many.

[Von Gamerstein]

Publicado originalmente por Kashra Fall:

Publicado originalmente por Moosehound Actual:

How about not changing anything and just enjoying the most of the experience we're given, I don't get the whole "what I want from this game", there's literally half a billion games, if you can't find one to suit the issue is on you. Not any particular game, with respect.

Because the PvP is flawed?

You drop your materials
They can't get the materials.
Most people aren't smart enough to do more than fencing (This needs to be removed.)
Thus your farming is destroyed and they gain like what, 4k? Depending on the bag.

As it stands right now, PvP serves NO PURPOSE other than some piddly cash (Unless you find someone willing to pony up the bucks.) or griefing people/impeding their progress. The only PvP that makes sense, is session battles.

What if they Set the price of Mats in Crafting bag so buy back is standardised. No ripping players off, the bag is worth what it is worth, This would encourage more sales and More purchases, an appropriate balance would need to be found, Remove the Fencing of Bags

Pay to unlock Bag's you find. You can pay the fee and open the loot. Make the Price Heavy than selling it back so players weight their odds against need, cost and selling. Balance would need to be found.

Now Killing players may be profitable in terms of making cash, or sinking that cash but getting mats.

[TotoManiak]

Publicado originalmente por a weed:

PVP is deeply flawed in this game. People camp important quest locations and hot spots for kills, but kills don't reward you with anything valuable, they just screw some other poor sap over. Or worse, make you screw someone else over, just because they're red and you're green, it's you or them.

I believe people should be able to play both a PvE server, and a full-loot PVP server.
To discourage camping, popular camping spots should be made incredibly radioactive (deadly), so that only high-tier science suits can survive there. Since high-tier and low-tier players are separated, this means the vast majority of locations will see an incredible reduction in camping, and the camping that does take place will be much easier to combat as people are forced into more exposed positions.
For example, if you make the bridge and cliff areas of the Cordon too radioactive for anyone to camp there, they will be forced to camp in the woods or inside of the Cordon itself.
This puts campers either out of the way of quest objectives, or perfectly exposed to be picked off by the opposing side, or killed in a raid.

PvP currently gives no valuable rewards. Lost bags mean you don't even get materials from killing people.
I think if the game wants to retain the lost bag system, while still making PvP gratifying, there should be dogtags, and perhaps territory-control systems. Say, you control a certain territory and get materials and buffs for controlling it. This will push PvP out of quest locations and toward certain hotspots. This will also encourage the mixing of PvP and PvE, since buffs toward say, more loot gains from wiping settlements, will encourage people to take territories for greater gains for their friends.
Dogtags can be traded for unique loot, materials, kept as a momento, or sold for rubles.
This will make it more valuable to kill higher-level people, and make it more gratifying to overcome them as a newer player.

I also think that defensive gear should outpace offensive gear.
Since gun progression is pretty straight forward and boring due to a lack of proper balance, most people are gonna be using the same weapons that kill you in one or two hits.
My suggestion is to buff defense in some way. Maybe early-game bullet resistance artifacts, maybe just making bullet resistance higher, maybe just adding new systems entirely, I don't know for that one. Or making weapons weaker somehow, like shoddy bullets or lowering guns by one tier. Making other weapons more viable would be nice too, either by making the other ones weaker or making them stronger, whichever is easier.

I Totaly agree . For exemple i'v try to farm the '' end game '' location . ( i'm freedom ) and i get killed by a bandit who go the last sniper +5 last exo +5 backpack with 4 arts . And the probleme with that it's when you got this stuff . You don't need to farm anymore . SO what will happen ??? You just go camp somewhere and kill the guys who want to farm tranquillo and waste the time of those guys . The pvp in this game is just to SLOW progression for other and make them waste time because they don't farm 24/7 to get fast as possible the meta gun etc to ♥♥♥♥ other ppls .

[Belmont]

Publicado originalmente por TotoManiak:

I Totaly agree . For exemple i'v try to farm the '' end game '' location . ( i'm freedom ) and i get killed by a bandit who go the last sniper +5 last exo +5 backpack with 4 arts . And the probleme with that it's when you got this stuff . You don't need to farm anymore . SO what will happen ??? You just go camp somewhere and kill the guys who want to farm tranquillo and waste the time of those guys . The pvp in this game is just to SLOW progression for other and make them waste time because they don't farm 24/7 to get fast as possible the meta gun etc to ♥♥♥♥ other ppls .

And when you create an environment where the only point of PVP is for one group to slow the progression of another group, you're creating a perfect environment ripe for monetization to give those slowed-down, camped players an out at the cost of real world dollars.

Welcome to F2P titles. They start like this, and slowly worm in monetization options as "time savers". Just look at the RU version, case in point.

The only reason the same monetization model wasn't here at launch, is they have to do it differently to get around the lootbox laws in place regarding what is and isn't gambling.

Give it time. The entire point of PVP is to push the monetization factor. That's all. Not in-universe lore reason, not for bragging rights, not for any kind of in-game reward or benefit. It's simply to create an environment where the game can profit via monetization.

[TotoManiak]

Publicado originalmente por Belmont:

Publicado originalmente por TotoManiak:

I Totaly agree . For exemple i'v try to farm the '' end game '' location . ( i'm freedom ) and i get killed by a bandit who go the last sniper +5 last exo +5 backpack with 4 arts . And the probleme with that it's when you got this stuff . You don't need to farm anymore . SO what will happen ??? You just go camp somewhere and kill the guys who want to farm tranquillo and waste the time of those guys . The pvp in this game is just to SLOW progression for other and make them waste time because they don't farm 24/7 to get fast as possible the meta gun etc to ♥♥♥♥ other ppls .

And when you create an environment where the only point of PVP is for one group to slow the progression of another group, you're creating a perfect environment ripe for monetization to give those slowed-down, camped players an out at the cost of real world dollars.

Welcome to F2P titles. They start like this, and slowly worm in monetization options as "time savers". Just look at the RU version, case in point.

The only reason the same monetization model wasn't here at launch, is they have to do it differently to get around the lootbox laws in place regarding what is and isn't gambling.

Give it time. The entire point of PVP is to push the monetization factor. That's all. Not in-universe lore reason, not for bragging rights, not for any kind of in-game reward or benefit. It's simply to create an environment where the game can profit via monetization.

++

[Uncle Sam]

Publicado originalmente por Kashra Fall:

Publicado originalmente por TANKOVIK:

I will say briefly, PVP is the basis of this game, not PVE. You have to be attentive, vigilant and be on the alert. Therefore, requests to add only PVP and only PVE sound stupid in this case. Are you being killed in one place because a murderer is sitting there? So go around. This is where you learn to be attentive and make quick decisions in critical situations. This is the essence of the game. In PVE, you will not get this experience, and therefore, when you switch from PVE to PVP, .... you will simply be destroyed. That's it) Have a nice game)

"Basis of the game." K, sooo

Can you upgrade your weapon with pvp?
No, how about armor?
No
Do you gain rep with PvP?
No,
If everyone PvPed would you gain rubles to buy ammo?
No
Do you find artifacts with PvP?
No

I can keep going if you like, but as it stands right now. PvP is "There" and you don't get much from it. Early on it is a nuisance because you don't have much to fight back with AND you're vulnerable to one taps from snipers. Later, it isn't too bad, but then they go and split the factions again into sub factions, turning a game like this, into an all out warzone. It is what it is mind you, but there is still no reward other than rubles and when you're already swimming in them, why do you need more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykVOXMMfVVI&ab_channel=Kung-FuCutbug

[TotoManiak]

Publicado originalmente por Kashra Fall:

Publicado originalmente por TANKOVIK:

I will say briefly, PVP is the basis of this game, not PVE. You have to be attentive, vigilant and be on the alert. Therefore, requests to add only PVP and only PVE sound stupid in this case. Are you being killed in one place because a murderer is sitting there? So go around. This is where you learn to be attentive and make quick decisions in critical situations. This is the essence of the game. In PVE, you will not get this experience, and therefore, when you switch from PVE to PVP, .... you will simply be destroyed. That's it) Have a nice game)

"Basis of the game." K, sooo

Can you upgrade your weapon with pvp?
No, how about armor?
No
Do you gain rep with PvP?
No,
If everyone PvPed would you gain rubles to buy ammo?
No
Do you find artifacts with PvP?
No

I can keep going if you like, but as it stands right now. PvP is "There" and you don't get much from it. Early on it is a nuisance because you don't have much to fight back with AND you're vulnerable to one taps from snipers. Later, it isn't too bad, but then they go and split the factions again into sub factions, turning a game like this, into an all out warzone. It is what it is mind you, but there is still no reward other than rubles and when you're already swimming in them, why do you need more?

WHAT U CAN DO WITH PVP :

Make ppl farm again 1h stuff because you camp them : YES

Try to slow down the progression of ppl who got no meta gun : YES

Rush farm spot --> kill someone ---> get killed ---> respawn ---> run again to ....

Pvp can be good but rn it's just brainless . I'v play tarkov a lot and i think pvp in this game is not good a the end because if you join faction you are ennemy with 5 other faction in end game zone ( bandit /covenant/merc/duty/stalker/freedom) . With that amount of faction they just split the community .And farm ''normal'' zone like army warhouses is gonna be pain if you join any faction

[The Skip]

Publicado originalmente por Belmont:

Publicado originalmente por TotoManiak:

I Totaly agree . For exemple i'v try to farm the '' end game '' location . ( i'm freedom ) and i get killed by a bandit who go the last sniper +5 last exo +5 backpack with 4 arts . And the probleme with that it's when you got this stuff . You don't need to farm anymore . SO what will happen ??? You just go camp somewhere and kill the guys who want to farm tranquillo and waste the time of those guys . The pvp in this game is just to SLOW progression for other and make them waste time because they don't farm 24/7 to get fast as possible the meta gun etc to ♥♥♥♥ other ppls .

And when you create an environment where the only point of PVP is for one group to slow the progression of another group, you're creating a perfect environment ripe for monetization to give those slowed-down, camped players an out at the cost of real world dollars.

Welcome to F2P titles. They start like this, and slowly worm in monetization options as "time savers". Just look at the RU version, case in point.

The only reason the same monetization model wasn't here at launch, is they have to do it differently to get around the lootbox laws in place regarding what is and isn't gambling.

Give it time. The entire point of PVP is to push the monetization factor. That's all. Not in-universe lore reason, not for bragging rights, not for any kind of in-game reward or benefit. It's simply to create an environment where the game can profit via monetization.

Your words fit absolutely every game. Everywhere there is monetization that speeds up the process. Besides, it doesn't matter PVE or PvP.

[TotoManiak]

Publicado originalmente por 5点目まで貫通:

Publicado originalmente por Belmont:

And when you create an environment where the only point of PVP is for one group to slow the progression of another group, you're creating a perfect environment ripe for monetization to give those slowed-down, camped players an out at the cost of real world dollars.

Welcome to F2P titles. They start like this, and slowly worm in monetization options as "time savers". Just look at the RU version, case in point.

The only reason the same monetization model wasn't here at launch, is they have to do it differently to get around the lootbox laws in place regarding what is and isn't gambling.

Give it time. The entire point of PVP is to push the monetization factor. That's all. Not in-universe lore reason, not for bragging rights, not for any kind of in-game reward or benefit. It's simply to create an environment where the game can profit via monetization.

Your words fit absolutely every game. Everywhere there is monetization that speeds up the process. Besides, it doesn't matter PVE or PvP.

No because you got loot box like csgo or every game like league of l where u can get SKIN and not Meta gun to ♥♥♥♥ ppl . BOX-->SKIN = GOOD / BOX--->GET ANY gun in any game =P2W . Like diablo immortal or other ♥♥♥♥♥♥ game like that

[Cross]

NA also doesn't have all the content that Russian servers do, so I can't fully understand PvP, but apparently North Zones and end game content are PvP driven, apparently. In my experience, seeking out PvP, or camping, earlier on is a literal waste of time. I think most people understand this, but there will always be some people looking for a PvP fight in a game that has PvP. Also, have you played Stalker? Or tarkov? This is a mild thrashing in comparison, although Stalker being a SP game, you don't really lose anything other than time when you die.

In fact, if you start rewarding PvP in this game, you're going to encounter all those issues of PvP you stated at a much larger rate.

[TotoManiak]

Publicado originalmente por Cross:

NA also doesn't have all the content that Russian servers do, so I can't fully understand PvP, but apparently North Zones and end game content are PvP driven, apparently. In my experience, seeking out PvP, or camping, earlier on is a literal waste of time. I think most people understand this, but there will always be some people looking for a PvP fight in a game that has PvP. Also, have you played Stalker? Or tarkov? This is a mild thrashing in comparison, although Stalker being a SP game, you don't really lose anything other than time when you die.

In fact, if you start rewarding PvP in this game, you're going to encounter all those issues of PvP you stated at a much larger rate.

yes but time is the most precious thing we all have

[a weed]

Publicado originalmente por 5点目まで貫通:

Publicado originalmente por Belmont:

And when you create an environment where the only point of PVP is for one group to slow the progression of another group, you're creating a perfect environment ripe for monetization to give those slowed-down, camped players an out at the cost of real world dollars.

Welcome to F2P titles. They start like this, and slowly worm in monetization options as "time savers". Just look at the RU version, case in point.

The only reason the same monetization model wasn't here at launch, is they have to do it differently to get around the lootbox laws in place regarding what is and isn't gambling.

Give it time. The entire point of PVP is to push the monetization factor. That's all. Not in-universe lore reason, not for bragging rights, not for any kind of in-game reward or benefit. It's simply to create an environment where the game can profit via monetization.

Your words fit absolutely every game. Everywhere there is monetization that speeds up the process. Besides, it doesn't matter PVE or PvP.

That isn't true in the slightest, it's one thing to speed up progression for a game where everyone has the same grind, and it's another thing to do this only because the PvP element ♥♥♥♥♥ the progression up.