Remove Denuvo + GOG Release

[[deleted]]

I request that this game have it's draconian DRM attachment removed, and be released on GOG. Previous Tango games, aside from Ghostwire, have been sold on the platform.

[45]

Originally posted by KenjiN4:

Originally posted by chickensareflying:

Agree. Especially adding denuvo to Ghostwire was a shady move on their part. I’m skipping all tango releases from now. Bought evil within 1 2 on gog

Here's hoping it has to do more with Bethesda rather than Tango, since they're the publishers
Shame they put Denuvo on their awesome titles :c

microsoft owns bethesda.

[KenjiN4]

Originally posted by 45:

Originally posted by KenjiN4:

Here's hoping it has to do more with Bethesda rather than Tango, since they're the publishers
Shame they put Denuvo on their awesome titles :c

microsoft owns bethesda.

Yeah but I don't see any MS titles with Denuvo here on Steam (at least I don't know about any recent case of it), meaning it's more of a Bethesda thing, so that point doesn't really add up to the convo :t

[Cosgar]

Originally posted by Creeper of Doom:

Originally posted by Lunovus:

How did you compare the game with Denuvo against without Denuvo?

I don’t know yet because nobody has made a comparison between Cracked vs Denuvo for Hi-Fi Rush yet. the fans on my Steam Deck blast so loud so i know that Denuvo is causing it

Geeze. Do you have to be online 24/7 with the Steam Deck?

[Cyber Akuma]

Originally posted by Creeper of Doom:

nobody has made a comparison between Cracked vs Denuvo for Hi-Fi Rush yet

Those would be pointless, because the way Denuvo cracks work is that they trick Denuvo into thinking the checks passed, they don't remove it. Denuvo inflates and obfuscates the hell out of the main executable. Sonic Mania for example, when SEGA finally removed Denuvo it's main EXE went from around 117MB or so down to 3MB. Basically 98% of Sonic Mania's EXE was Denuvo. It's actually a tell-tale sign that Denuvo was removed from a game when it's EXE drops in size by a couple hundred megs. The Forspoken demo dropped by 300MB as well when Denuvo was recently removed from it.

IIRC there was only one instance a few years ago where an older variant of Denuvo from an older game was completely removed as a proof-of-concept, but beyond that single example, every other Denuvo game that had ever been cracked just simply bypasses Denuvo, not removes it.

So sadly, comparing a cracked version to a non-cracked version isn't going to give you any information on what a difference in performance Denuvo makes.

[KenjiN4]

Originally posted by Cyber Akuma:

Originally posted by Creeper of Doom:

nobody has made a comparison between Cracked vs Denuvo for Hi-Fi Rush yet

Those would be pointless, because the way Denuvo cracks work is that they trick Denuvo into thinking the checks passed, they don't remove it. Denuvo inflates and obfuscates the hell out of the main executable. Sonic Mania for example, when SEGA finally removed Denuvo it's main EXE went from around 117MB or so down to 3MB. Basically 98% of Sonic Mania's EXE was Denuvo. It's actually a tell-tale sign that Denuvo was removed from a game when it's EXE drops in size by a couple hundred megs. The Forspoken demo dropped by 300MB as well when Denuvo was recently removed from it.

IIRC there was only one instance a few years ago where an older variant of Denuvo from an older game was completely removed as a proof-of-concept, but beyond that single example, every other Denuvo game that had ever been cracked just simply bypasses Denuvo, not removes it.

So sadly, comparing a cracked version to a non-cracked version isn't going to give you any information on what a difference in performance Denuvo makes.

In that case, cracking the game wouldn't make a difference in performance (if I got it correctly)? In that case the only advantage would be playing with no need to connect to the internet, but I don't know if HFR does that check since it's a single player game
In that case then it's best to wait for Bethesda to remove it whenever they feel like it. Either that or check if there's a significant difference in the MS Store version, I don't know if Denuvo is also there, but some say it is while other say it's not :r

[Cyber Akuma]

Originally posted by KenjiN4:

In that case, cracking the game wouldn't make a difference in performance (if I got it correctly)?

Correct

In that case the only advantage would be playing with no need to connect to the internet, but I don't know if HFR does that check since it's a single player game

Well, and not having to phone home every now and then to verify that you can play the very game you purchased. Something that not only is important if you are not within an internet connection (Like say, you are playing on a Steam deck while on the go) but will also be quite important in the future when one day the Denuvo servers inevitably go the way of the dodo. It's already happened with older DRM systems that would verify your games online.

In that case then it's best to wait for Bethesda to remove it whenever they feel like it. Either that or check if there's a significant difference in the MS Store version, I don't know if Denuvo is also there, but some say it is while other say it's not :r

*IF* they ever remove it. I am definitely getting this game the day it's removed, I would have bought it on release day if it didn't have Denuvo. Many newer games tend to remove it after six months (which leads me to believe that Denuvo changed their contract terms from the previous one) but Bethesda is particularly stubborn about removing it.... Ubisoft is that way too.

Also a telltale way to tell if Denuvo was removed or not was to look at the EXE size. Denuvo bloats the main executable (or sometimes an accompanying DLL) by a LOT. Sonic Mania for example, it's main EXE was 117MB when it had Denuvo.... and 3MB when it was removed. I noticed that I still had the Forspoken demo installed on my system and with the recent update that removed Denuvo the install size shrank by 300MB. So if the EXE for the Steam and MS Store version are around the same size, safe to assume it still has Denuvo, but if the MS Store version is a few hundred megs smaller, they likely removed it.

It's really going to be frustrating if Denuvo gets removed from the MS Store version but remains in the Steam version, this DOES happen. That's how little many publishers care, there are many examples of games that later came out on GoG or EPIC or other platforms and removed Denuvo.... but they never removed it from the Steam version.

[Sticky White Stuff]

I had an i5-7600k, 16GB DDR4 RAM, SSD and a 1060 6GB FC OC with a G-Sync Compatible (Standard VESA) 240HZ Monitor. Denuvo did nothing to my performance, i had a stable 120 FPS at all times on Max.

That was before i replaced my hardware with AMD, now it's 240FPS.

[Cyber Akuma]

A 7600K is hardly that old or low-end

[min3r95]

Originally posted by ＧＬＵＥ:

I had an i5-7600k, 16GB DDR4 RAM, SSD and a 1060 6GB FC OC with a G-Sync Compatible (Standard VESA) 240HZ Monitor. Denuvo did nothing to my performance, i had a stable 120 FPS at all times on Max.

That was before i replaced my hardware with AMD, now it's 240FPS.

Performance isn't the only issue.
Denuvo implemented games rely on 3rd party DRM server and activation tokens to be launchable, these activation tokens have timers on themselves and can be break under circumstances,render the games useless.
Don't expect everyone to have the same level of tolerant towards Denuvo or similar DRMs, just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother everyone else, if you respect that then it's fine.

[Sticky White Stuff]

Originally posted by min3r95:

Originally posted by ＧＬＵＥ:

I had an i5-7600k, 16GB DDR4 RAM, SSD and a 1060 6GB FC OC with a G-Sync Compatible (Standard VESA) 240HZ Monitor. Denuvo did nothing to my performance, i had a stable 120 FPS at all times on Max.

That was before i replaced my hardware with AMD, now it's 240FPS.

Performance isn't the only issue.
Denuvo implemented games rely on 3rd party DRM server and activation tokens to be launchable, these activation tokens have timers on themselves and can be break under circumstances,render the games useless.
Don't expect everyone to have the same level of tolerant towards Denuvo or similar DRMs, just because it doesn't bother you doesn't mean it won't bother everyone else, if you respect that then it's fine.

I was saying on the performance side of things, because people were reporting the game has issues with stuttering and performance. I tested it on 3 different PCs and none of them have problems. Even with Denuvo, when i swapped out my entire hardware and only plugged my SSD, the game launched ASAP.

Denuvo is done by a contract, depending how long do you want it to be in the game.
Out of all 3 PCs, all of them worked with Hi-Fi Rush installed. I don't know what the exact limit is, but Denuvo is also different from game to game. Literally. Each game uses a different type of anti-tampering software.

The only problem is offline play, some games launch even with Denuvo, some don't.
A lot of publishers and developers remove it after their contract ends. Depending how much they paid for it.

But people usually think that Denuvo will render the game useless if something happens to the "servers" which won't happen, ever. So if you are concerned about game preservation, Hi-Fi Rush will be here to stay, and eventually Denuvo will be removed.

The game released this year, and they just recently updated it. Of course they won't remove it YET. Wait a year or two.
It doesn't matter how much the game is good or popular, it didn't sell that many copies as they wanted. Even tho it came out of nowhere and flushed Cringespoken to the ground, a 70€ game.

Pretty sure that Capcom removed Denuvo on most if not all their games. I know they removed in on Resident Evil 3 because their contract ended 6 months after the game released.

It's no different if Steam goes down. The only way to really preserve games is getting them on disc. I suspect the licensed music will expire faster than Denuvo itself.

Originally posted by Cyber Akuma:

A 7600K is hardly that old or low-end

2017 i believe, 7th gen? Yes, Core Per Performance is good. But that's the catch, it only has 4 Cores. No Hyperthreading and it's choking new games out. The CPU usage always hits 100%, and you don't want that. Try playing some new games like System Shock Remake with it, a game that doesn't need a powerful PC, some sections are literally unplayable because the CPU is choking at 100% with stuttering for 5-10 seconds in combat.

[Cyber Akuma]

Originally posted by ＧＬＵＥ:

I was saying on the performance side of things, because people were reporting the game has issues with stuttering and performance. I tested it on 3 different PCs and none of them have problems. Even with Denuvo, when i swapped out my entire hardware and only plugged my SSD, the game launched ASAP.

And what you are doing is providing anecdotal evidence. "I personally did not have any problems so it must be fine", there are KNOWN times Denuvo has caused issues, like Sonic Mania. I have seen people who years ago used the exact same arguments to defend Windows ME, saying that there was nothing wrong with that historically broken OS because they personally never had any issues.

But people usually think that Denuvo will render the game useless if something happens to the "servers" which won't happen, ever.

IT
HAS
ALREADY
HAPPENED
TO
OLDER
ONLINE-ACTIVATED
DRM

This is not a fantasy scenario, it's not just a worry, it's an inevitebality.

So if you are concerned about game preservation, Hi-Fi Rush will be here to stay, and eventually Denuvo will be removed.

We have no proof of that, there are games released over five years ago that still have Denuvo.

It's no different if Steam goes down.

No, it's quite different, you have full access to the game's data without it being obfuscated by DRM, many Steam games don't even use DRM at all, and the ones that use Steams are trivial to bypass.

2017 i believe, 7th gen? Yes, Core Per Performance is good. But that's the catch, it only has 4 Cores. No Hyperthreading and it's choking new games out.

Only the latest of games that use more than four threads would be choked out, there are still games coming out today that are single-threaded.

Try playing some new games like System Shock Remake with it, a game that doesn't need a powerful PC, some sections are literally unplayable because the CPU is choking at 100% with stuttering for 5-10 seconds in combat.

Dude, I backed that on Kickstarter, I was playing the betas and backer demos just fine on my freaking 3700K before I finally upgraded recently.

[Rastrelly]

But people usually think that Denuvo will render the game useless if something happens to the "servers" which won't happen, ever.

Aaaah, that's why I can no longer launch my disc-based Securom and Starforce protected games! Because it will never happen!! EVER!!!!!!!

[Sticky White Stuff]

We are talking about Denuvo, not Securom and Starforce protection here, despite they are one and the same as a company who founded them. It's a different system. It literally depends on developers, money and their contract with denuvo, as well if they care for the game or not. I am saying the game released this year, and since it released this year, Denuvo won't be removed until a certain time period if they plan to. The latest patch landed just recently. Securom and Starforce wasn't exactly based when games were on all time high bound by Steam servers and digital purchases. They were based on DVD releases, and Denuvo in fact is far less draconian in nature. Not that it's good. I don't like Denuvo, why would anyone like it anyway? But so far it seems to work for them, since they are still selling copies of the game.

A lot games have Steam DRM, while easy to bypass, you still must launch them from Steam, apart from *some* indie titles. And that is some.

As for System Shock, did you play through the whole game? The game is CPU bound, you can't decrease ANY options to gain CPU load. Flight Deck has like 14 enemies at once that will choke your CPU when going into battle with them, setting everything on Low just affects your GPU. It's been already tested.

7600k is not up to par anymore on some titles. not even the newest games. It's a good CPU when it came out, but 8th gen literally came afterwards and fixed all the problems 7th gen CPUs had.

For now we don't know what will happen. Give it a year and we can discuss about DRM. You are all jumping to soon on removing Denuvo when the game launched literally this year.

I haven't seen any AAA game, or even some AA games without Denuvo for a long, long time on Steam. And even if it doesn't use Denuvo, it uses third party launchers from other games. The only sure strategy to preserve games is on Console Discs.

The only thing we can hope for is that they will remove it after a certain period of time.
Developers DO NOT check community hub anymore. Especially big developers. Smaller ones use Discord for everything now.

[Cyber Akuma]

Originally posted by ＧＬＵＥ:

We are talking about Denuvo, not Securom and Starforce protection here

It's a perfect example, it has happened before many times, Denuvo is no different, it WILL happen to Denuvo too, I don't know why you think Denuvo is somehow special and the servers will always be up when this is not been the case for any past DRM that required server activation.

Securom and Starforce wasn't exactly based when games were on all time high bound by Steam servers and digital purchases.

Actually it was, there was many Steam games that use Starforce, I recall infecting my system with that crap when I downloaded a DEMO of a Trackmania game off of Steam years ago.

They were based on DVD releases, and Denuvo in fact is far less draconian in nature.

Not really, no. No to it only being based on physical releases and on Denuvo being less draconian. The only reason it doesn't even screw around with your optical drives like Starforce did was because few people have optical dries anymore or install games off of them, but it's far more draconian digitally than Starforce ever was. Never had to connect my game online to verify it with Starforce.

A lot games have Steam DRM, while easy to bypass, you still must launch them from Steam, apart from *some* indie titles. And that is some.

Not if you bypass it, no, that's kinda the point.

As for System Shock, did you play through the whole game? The game is CPU bound, you can't decrease ANY options to gain CPU load. Flight Deck has like 14 enemies at once that will choke your CPU when going into battle with them, setting everything on Low just affects your GPU. It's been already tested.

Like I said, I was playing many far less optimized backer demos and betas and didn't have issues.

7600k is not up to par anymore on some titles. not even the newest games.

Just yesterday I was playing the freaking Atomic Heart demo and it was running fine on a $30 2016 Xeon CPU! I had no issues running the Forspoken demo on that same CPU either, it was my GPU that was struggling in some cases.

For now we don't know what will happen. Give it a year and we can discuss about DRM. You are all jumping to soon on removing Denuvo when the game launched literally this year.

Games shouldn't be using this crap in the FIRST PLACE, also, it's been out for eight months, games have generally been removing it after six months. "Oh, it will have Denuvo on release" should NOT be the standard or defended, and I WILL argue against that no matter what.

I haven't seen any AAA game, or even some AA games without Denuvo for a long, long time on Steam.

Off the top of my head:
Witcher 3
Cyberpunk
Final Fantasy VII Remake
Psychonauts 2
Ratchet & Clank

That is NOT an extensive list, it's literally just what I remembered when I thought about it for around 10 seconds, there are far more.

And even if it doesn't use Denuvo, it uses third party launchers from other games.

Incorrect, not only are other launchers dying, but the presence of Denuvo has zero bearing on if a game uses a third party launcher or not, in fact, it's more common for them to use it since a lot of those 3rd parties like EA or Ubisoft love Denuvo while also insisting on their launcher even for the Steam versions of games.

The only sure strategy to preserve games is on Console Discs.

As if the consoles manufacturers aren't CLEARLY trying to push towards consoles being digital-only as well.

[min3r95]

Originally posted by ＧＬＵＥ:

We are talking about Denuvo, not Securom and Starforce protection here, despite they are one and the same as a company who founded them. It's a different system. It literally depends on developers, money and their contract with denuvo, as well if they care for the game or not. I am saying the game released this year, and since it released this year, Denuvo won't be removed until a certain time period if they plan to. The latest patch landed just recently. Securom and Starforce wasn't exactly based when games were on all time high bound by Steam servers and digital purchases. They were based on DVD releases, and Denuvo in fact is far less draconian in nature. Not that it's good. I don't like Denuvo, why would anyone like it anyway? But so far it seems to work for them, since they are still selling copies of the game.

Many people in this thread myself included,are begging Bethesda to either remove Denuvo or just release the game on GOG,like Sega did with Yakuza 7. If the contract only tied Denuvo with the Steam version,they can alway release a DRM-Free on GOG.
Whether Denuvo work for them(in what way?) Or not,the reason you keep seeing threads like this is because they keep using it.

Originally posted by ＧＬＵＥ:

I haven't seen any AAA game, or even some AA games without Denuvo for a long, long time on Steam. And even if it doesn't use Denuvo, it uses third party launchers from other games. The only sure strategy to preserve games is on Console Discs.

Horizon Zero Dawn
Cyberpunk 2077
Days Gone
God of war
2 Spiderman games
Uncharted Collection(2 games)
Sackboy
The last of Us
Ratchet and clank
Wo-long
Scarlet nexus
Tales of Arise
Elden Ring
Nioh 2
Dragon Ball Z Kakarot
Remnant 2 (for now)
Ghostwire was released without Denuvo,then added 1 year later
Kingdom hearts full collection
Crisis core Final fantasy 7 Reunion
Except for Ghostwire, none of them have Denuvo.

Originally posted by ＧＬＵＥ:

The only thing we can hope for is that they will remove it after a certain period of time.
Developers DO NOT check community hub anymore. Especially big developers. Smaller ones use Discord for everything now.

That why we have threads like this.
As for last lines, i don't think so.