Game can't handle it's own difficulty on Rythm Master

[Megakoresh]

If you set the difficulty to Rythm Master, then at some encounters in the game it just randomly becomes impossible unless you equip the combo holder chip. This is pretty bad experience for an otherwise excellent game and it also breaks the flow state this game can create.

Examples are Rekka's fight or the one spot where Zanzo "drops the platform". Basically anywhere there are many shielded enemies, area denial and lots of visual spam. This is made even worse if there is a lengthy unskippable segment before the encounter.

Main issue for this, way I see it, comes from several limitations in the gameplay:

- Blocking interrupts your combo
- Blocking doesn't remove damage from many simultaneous attacks
- Blocking does not help against lingering damage like fire
- Enemy attack AI is erratic, as is the movement, so there is no way to force it into a predictable pattern, making positioning pointless
- There is no reliable crowd control in the game

All of those things are not an issue in other difficulties because you can mostly just work around them by waiting for a good opportunity to kick off a combo. However in RM waiting is not possible.

I'd say to make RM difficulty enjoyable and not just a "for the tick" kind of thing for grid-loving gamers to tick-off, the whole "you die if your combo counter reaches D" should be changed to "you die if by the end of the fight your combo counter is D". That way those few moments at certain points in the game don't ruin the rest of the experience.

[Pckables]

Sounds more like you don't know how to keep the combo meter up.

Partner attacks, especially peppermint help. You can bounce off shields and still get meter.
The robots holding Z-shields can be circumvented by using your grapple to get behind them where they aren't protected.
Strategically save your Hibiki for tough fights in the level, it instantly breaks shields too.
And in the worst case, you can just swing your weapon in the air to keep up the meter while you wait for a partner to recharge.

RM only really punishes waiting around and getting hit, but there are only like 1 or 2 spots where you're actually forced to wait around.
You don't have the leisure to always wait for partner counters, so don't rely on them anymore.

[Megakoresh]

You should not assume things about other people if you don't want the same kind of treatment. Getting behind enemies with Z-shielding does not work. You cannot get behind the larger ones and because the collision box of your weapon is longer than the smaller enemies with shield, it will still hit the shield and stagger the character.

The whole "Use Peppermint to keep combo up" thing must have been patched out, because I see this advice often, but it clearly doesn't work anymore. Try it yourself - the combo meter can be refilled by her only once, second time you use her it basically doesn't do anything. You have to alternate with Korsica and that is very annoying and breaks the flow. I see people already complaining that you need to spam assists to get through fights, which kinda defeats the whole point of the rythm gameplay.

Typically these kind of encounters require that you do a parry counter, but that puts you at mercy of AI (or even worse - when the shielding enemy is present: your targeting system). Each stage has at least one such encounter and since you can only get S rank for a stage if you don't die on it, having this kind of semi-random "difficulty" spike is annoying to say the least. It does not contain any kind of challenge, just breaks the flow when you're playing through the whole level just fine and then have to restart that one section 50 times until you get lucky with the enemy attack pattern and positioning.

This is a very common issue with most games at their highest difficulty, and tbh most people don't care because most of the time people prefer to "have a life" rather than tryhard the top difficulty of a game. The only reason why I am posting it here, is because Hi-Fi Rush is such a good game that it's worth fixing here IMO.

[Pckables]

Originally posted by Megakoresh:

Getting behind enemies with Z-shielding does not work. You cannot get behind the larger ones and because the collision box of your weapon is longer than the smaller enemies with shield, it will still hit the shield and stagger the character.

This isn't even true? I just tested it myself and the guys holding the square Z-shields you can easily grapple behind and hit. Your weapon does not bounce off their shield from behind.
https://streamable.com/snle2d

If you air-combo them after you break their stun-gauge, they can't block you.
Plus this leads into a very easy and useful strategy to quick-break their shields without needing a counter:
Get behind them and use the Quick-Beat-Hit (Spacebar+Attack) to instant trigger a Macaron Partner Beat Hit, which will break their Z-shielding.
For the large Z-shielded enemies, you can actually do a light-attack air combo on them to trigger a Macaron Partner Beat Hit and instant-destroy their shields. You don't stagger off shields while in the air.

As for "Using Peppermint to keep combo up"
Well yeah, using nothing but Peppermint won't keep your METER up, as repeated attacks have diminishing returns. If you really can't hit the enemy, like an electrified Rekka, alternate between Peppermint and Macaron.
I only found partner spam that useful during Mimosa and Roguefort, as both like to move around too much, and Roguefort doesn't have a stagger bar.

If you're looking up "Using Peppermint to keep combo up", you're going to find people talking about the Combo/Hit Counter, not the Meter.

I'm not assuming anything. Your post says that you struggle with keeping the meter up because your strategy is over-reliant on waiting for counters, and I said to not wait for counters. Take them if they're there, but otherwise make the first move.

[MegasonicZX]

Best I can really say is to just chain dodges to the beat and attack the air in situations like that. There are a lot of easy workarounds for Rhythm Master but it does kinda feel like it wasn't properly tested at times and I with we had gotten something more from it over just being a must style mode.

[Reaper]

I beat the entire rhythm master difficulty with S ranks without the combo chip. This sounds like a skill issue. Not to mention, it sounds like your just button mashing if you think there's no crowd control. I can think of at least 2 different combos capable of covering half the arena and knocking down entire waves of enemies in one move.

[Megakoresh]

Originally posted by MegasonicZX:

Best I can really say is to just chain dodges to the beat and attack the air in situations like that. There are a lot of easy workarounds for Rhythm Master but it does kinda feel like it wasn't properly tested at times and I with we had gotten something more from it over just being a must style mode.

Yeah that's the problem. When you are playing normally and then suddenly have to resort to spam and other uncharacteristic actions it kinda ruins the level, at least for me.

[Megakoresh]

Originally posted by Fear_TH3_Reap3R:

I beat the entire rhythm master difficulty with S ranks without the combo chip. This sounds like a skill issue. Not to mention, it sounds like your just button mashing if you think there's no crowd control. I can think of at least 2 different combos capable of covering half the arena and knocking down entire waves of enemies in one move.

Thing is - I am not interested in try-harding the game whatever it takes, so I can stroke my ego by scouring the forums for opportunities to point out the fact that I've ticked off a box, and am therefore better than the other guy. That's precisely the problem I am outlining here. My point is that playing on RM feels pretty good, except certain situations which break the flow of the game. This issue is quite easily solved without removing the challenge. Hence this thread.

IMO if a difficulty exists solely for try-harders to brag about beating it, then there is no value in it. It should be enjoyable, I am not playing the game to work though insecurities, I am playing it for the fun of it. RM is pretty fun, it forces you to rack up combos and not just button mash. But every level has at least one such encounter where the game breaks down on that difficulty due to issues I outlined.

[Pckables]

I'll concede that there are two situations where RM difficulty creates an odd situation that requires unintiuitive/strange strategies:
The final fight of Track 6, where you're forced to swing wildly at nothing to stay alive while destroying the first tram brake.
And restarting checkpoints during boss fights, which put you back at C meter and thus an awkward situation should you be in something like Kale's phase 2.

But the overall flow of Rhythm Master is to promote speed and constant action in fights.

You can't use the same strategy for the every fight on every difficulty and expect the game to cater itself around you.
The game gives you all the tools to deal with any enemy without having to wait for a counter. It's not the game's fault if you choose not to use them.

I work a full time job. I played this game at a pace of 1-2 missions a day. RM was not that much of a struggle when you bother to try some new things.
It's not "Try-harding", it's literally playing the game the way it's intended.

Also to address some of the original points

Originally posted by Megakoresh:

- Blocking interrupts your combo

True, but additionally most enemies have no attacks that can hit you in the air, and Partner Beat Hits make you invincible. Once you have a combo started, staying in the air and chaining Jam combos generally prevents you from being attacked mid-combo.
Target enemies that are alone and juggle them.

Originally posted by Megakoresh:

- Blocking doesn't remove damage from many simultaneous attacks

You have to block for each individual hit. Sometimes these hits happen on half-beats. You do have to memorize them, but they're not that common so there aren't a lot to remember.

Originally posted by Megakoresh:

- Blocking does not help against lingering damage like fire

AFAIK the only fire move that can't be parried are the Gunner's flamethrowers (and obviously any fire on the ground).
I agree that fire is really annoying though, but this is an all-difficulty thing. Didn't find it much worse on RM.

Originally posted by Megakoresh:

- Enemy attack AI is erratic, as is the movement, so there is no way to force it into a predictable pattern, making positioning pointless

Positioning never really felt important in this game. You can parry almost everything, and enemies pretty much always target Chai directly, and at most have a small explosion, with the exception to boss fights/volcanos (which are parriable).
The game doesn't expect you or grade you on your positioning.

Originally posted by Megakoresh:

- There is no reliable crowd control in the game

Several special moves, Macaron's Alt-Hold, and several heavy combos have wide-sweeping final hits.
If you mean things like stuns to stop enemies from attacking while you focus elsewhere, then sure, though again, the game was not designed with that in mind, and I feel it'd make the game too easy.

[Reaper]

Originally posted by Megakoresh:

Originally posted by Fear_TH3_Reap3R:

I beat the entire rhythm master difficulty with S ranks without the combo chip. This sounds like a skill issue. Not to mention, it sounds like your just button mashing if you think there's no crowd control. I can think of at least 2 different combos capable of covering half the arena and knocking down entire waves of enemies in one move.

Thing is - I am not interested in try-harding the game whatever it takes, so I can stroke my ego by scouring the forums for opportunities to point out the fact that I've ticked off a box, and am therefore better than the other guy. That's precisely the problem I am outlining here. My point is that playing on RM feels pretty good, except certain situations which break the flow of the game. This issue is quite easily solved without removing the challenge. Hence this thread.

IMO if a difficulty exists solely for try-harders to brag about beating it, then there is no value in it. It should be enjoyable, I am not playing the game to work though insecurities, I am playing it for the fun of it. RM is pretty fun, it forces you to rack up combos and not just button mash. But every level has at least one such encounter where the game breaks down on that difficulty due to issues I outlined.

You're exactly proving my point that it's a skill issue and as much as I hate the phrase get good, you want it made easier because you don't want to adapt to the game. Your opinion on difficulty is pointless just like the opinion of people who wanted an "easy mode" for Dark Souls was pointless. If a developer wants a difficulty, or even an entire game, to be a very hard challenge, then they have every right to do so. The only insecure person here is you because you ran into a difficulty you couldn't beat, then instead of getting better at the game or playing one difficulty down on very hard, you decided the devs needed to rebalance their max difficulty for you.

Honestly, I think you just made this post to get jester awards. Considering how many you've gotten, people think this is a joke.

[Black Lamb, Rock Enjoyer]

You dont need to combo to get your rank up actually. Making my way through Rhythm Master (and I only have time to do like a stage a day), all you have to do is continuously chain dodges on beat and it raises your rank above C easily. Comboing definitely gets you higher score, but you dont need score to beat the game if thats what you're worried about.

[Narcentropy]

Some people are just born to be a joke; OP is one of them.

[k3stea]

you can do combos on nothing to keep your meter up. i finished RM and didn't use combo holder

[Megakoresh]

Originally posted by Pckables:

I'll concede that ....

You are trying to teach me how to play RM, while my post was not about that. I have beaten the game on RM already and know the basics. By posting all this pointless flexing about how many times per day you play and how it's no big deal, you are only proving my point. In fact just like I suspected, the only people who replied to this thread are that kind. Because nobody else plays this difficulty. Which is exactly the point.

[Megakoresh]

Originally posted by Black Lamb, Shrimp for Shark:

You dont need to combo to get your rank up actually. Making my way through Rhythm Master (and I only have time to do like a stage a day), all you have to do is continuously chain dodges on beat and it raises your rank above C easily. Comboing definitely gets you higher score, but you dont need score to beat the game if thats what you're worried about.

Yeah thats true, that's in the end what I had to do in all these cases, but isn't that a problem? It doesn't exactly feel like playing the game when you have to pointlessly dodge and spam assists without doing anything useful.

[Megakoresh]

Originally posted by Fear_TH3_Reap3R:

Honestly, I think you just made this post to get jester awards. Considering how many you've gotten, people think this is a joke.

The only people who respond to this thread are those who took the bait to flex their "skills" and tell someone to "get good". Which besides proving my point many times over, puts to question who is the jester here. People interested in improving the game mechanics are not reading these forums (and most of them don't play through the game more than once anyway).

You didn't bother to read the thread or the OP fully, missed the entire point, told me to get good and proceeded onwards to insults. Like straight out from a meme. And you call me a joker?

Let's see how many tryharders we can bait here, shall we?