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There's the script writing and 'dialogue' choices for side quest, and the 'mannerism' your character makes when you choose the 'wittier' responses, and how every character in this game has to do a gesture with a finger snap whenever they had a 'EUREKA' moment...
A lot of these reminds me of my time playing the entirety of FF14 from ARR to Endwalker, where you see the same narrative style and animations happening enough times to see a pattern.
Live Wire Inc is not "Creative Business Unit 3" (it's a department under SE, not a actual studio) though so I don't know if a few 'staff' helps out in other places.
The reason why I mentioned Food artwork, is that the art is a little too serious as a artwork for a game, it feels like they want to sell a cookbook for Harvestella like they did with FF14 or something...
It has a bunch of names, just not an "official" name. But most people recognize "farming life with combat/survival mechanics" as being a thing. The easiest example, and probably the earliest, is the Rune Factory series. But it isn't hard to find other games aiming to be like this, I have a few on my wish list for when they get released. So perhaps you might want to climb off the "holier than thou" box. The genre you like is also one of my favorites.
Which is the problem here. If you are coming from one of those games you will find not only is the combat not as good as other games in the genre but the farming isn't as good either. That isn't to say you can't enjoy it, or find enjoyment. But if you came here, like I did, because the advertising was akin to insinuating this was "Rune Factory but with Final Fantasy flavor"...well that hope is going to fall pretty flat.
That's the issue here. It isn't that there aren't people who can find elements they like, it's that the game wasn't MADE for the people who like those elements. This game isn't trying to be like Rune Factory or other games like it despite borrowing elements from those kinds of games in a pretty blatant way. If you want that kind of game, there are games better aimed at that desire. But that is the issue, every way you come at this game other games have done it better.
That's why I said this game isn't aimed at anyone. In all the genres it tries to mix, it doesn't actually do any of them in any sort of standout way. Which is why, to me, it feels so underwhelming. If it did any element particularity well I could have forgiven the rest, but when it's mediocre at everything, all you are left with is a "meh" type game.
Well i think that has more to do with JRPG producers learning how to make the best with limited resources in story telling. I mean what they manage to convey in FF14 is pretty impressive since a lot of it is clever sound and camera work on "stock" character animations.
I will say that I do like the story and side quest writing. While I am pretty sure there are no branching paths to them in how they play out, the writing actually has made me stop and think about my response a few times like it did. Story and characters are really the only reason I am sticking it out at this point (and also trying to get my money's worth of entertainment from the game).
But as good as the story, characters, and even music is...the rest of the game is kinda like an anchor. Those elements do their best to hold the game up, but the rest keeps trying to drag the experience down.
Honestly, this, louder for the people in the back.
A lot of people in here saying it's a meh game even for the "target audience" but then going into complaining that they expected harder combat mechanics, higher difficulty, and so on.
I don't know when cozy farming/life/story sims started needing those (or having those), because when I look for this genre (and I'm not a big gamer person, I literally only play these types of games to relax) I'm definitely not looking for a combat mechanic that'll make me frustrated because I can't beat the boss and keep on if I'm not quick enough to make 23432 combos and quick enough to doge and learn a pattern to be able to beat it.
I grind. I relax, take my time, get better weapons. plan and accumulate things for the battle, and grind again till I'm able to beat them. And enjoy the process. There's a reason why I don't go and play FF or similar but I play this.
So it's all good if some people thought it's boring, if it didn't meet their expectations, if they weren't interested in the end, etc. But it's not a bad game objetively. It has all the elements the target audience want, it has an intriguing story, great ost, good characters.
Why? The people in the front aren't listening either.
Yeah these kinds of games aren't know for being all that hard. Which is why I think I was excited at the advertising because I was thinking that maybe this game would take the combat more seriously. Which it does....and doesn't. That is the underlying issue, the game does try to be deeper, but doesn't do it all that well.
To use your combat example, I will use the example of the best comparison I can to this game: Rune Factory. In the latest iteration Rune Factory had six weapon types, or "classes" if you will. You could use swords, duel swords, long swords, hammer, axes, spears, fists, and magic staves. So basically a selection of EIGHT different weapon types you could mess around with, or specialize in. Not to mention rune abilities AND elemental spells of which there are a LOT to find, earn, and buy. All in an actual real time combat system that actually flows without jank. It has issues, but it's a LOT deeper than you would expect with the relaxed pace of the game.
Compared to this game we have something like 12 different actual jobs, which is more except that there are only a handful of abilities to actually learn and use. Progression is much MUCH shallower, the combat has jank and pauses, finally the fact you can pick three jobs at a time is hindered by the fact you have such long pauses between switching. Which maybe that gets better at higher tiers but it doesn't change how bad it is when introduced to the player. This is also AFTER already reducing the time from the pre-release demo version.
Maybe the farming games don't need combat, not all of them do. Not all of them are as deep as say Rune Factory. But in RF's case the combat is a part of the experience and not the entire experience. It doesn't have the focus as this game has on combat, and yet it does it just so much better. THAT is what people are complaining about, you don't have to have combat in these kinds of games but if you at least do it WELL.
Then you need tons of healing items and food for spamming skills in battle and such.
And Chapter 5 onward, dungeons starts to get very very long which is time consuming as well as enemies starts to hit harder even if you are higher leveled.
The game expects you to murder FEAR enemies that are 10+ level above you for accessories that offers 'minor' changes? I'm 5-10 levels above enemies and taking hits really hurts still.
I still don't fully utilize everything because of how grindy and expensive resources are basically, those monolite crystals aren't easy to gather when you have like... 90+ hard stones...
There are consumable battle items that dishes out damage like spells, but they can be expensive as a upkeep.
I think the game expects you to grind out the farm till you are halfway done with all the fairy orders, and all content for the farm unlocked before continuing the story of chapter 4, so Year 2. But since I rushed it, the difficulty starts curving a lot, though I also gathered more materials to craft more stuff, and also experience from higher level field mobs.
Yeah, I pushed through to the end and closed the game out early autumn, and I can say with confidence the game was not happy with me trying that. My health was cratering with every attack and there were FEARs that I killed who were lopping off 40% of my HP in one long ranged normal attack.
If I wasn't running Wog/Avenger/Shadow as my classes with the damage optimization needed to end fights before enemies could move, I don't think I would have been able to survive. I went back to grind one of the secret classes and almost instantly had to back out because I was getting slaughtered.
So far I'm using a P.Atk and M.Atk +9, and a Deadly Poison Guard 2 + P.Def +8 but it doesn't last very well...
FEAR and 'breaking' them enough are hard enough to pull off unless I have specific jobs assigned to deal with them...
For instance, FIRE damage... Your 'fighter' class is the only class I know right now that can use two fire skills. The Avenger has fire ammo I think...
For ice damage, the Mage job.
Because 'Physical' breaks are easy, it's getting another similar attribute break to do a double break that makes it harder... And I wonder if they even let you do a triple break or above.
I... uh... never found the combining machine.
Where is it?
Way to completely miss the point. Unless you're meant that you're straight up not listening with the 'people in the front aren't listening either'.
I get it. You're disappointed. But that doesn't mean you WERE the target audience, you just WANTED TO BE the target audience. People who want less combat "complexity" are the target audience, and I PROMISE you, we exist in much higher numbers than you seem to think we do. This? This is just right. It's fun and flashy and offers some advantage to skill while still allowing arthritic grandmothers to be able to finish the story.
When you start talking about things that can be improved with a difficulty slider, you're in the wrong damn genre.
It not being what you personally exactly wanted doesn't make it a failure. It means it was aimed at a difficulty class lower than what you were hoping for. There are a LOT of games that offer a combat-centric experience. This one doesn't have to be hard.
The damn hubris involved in the assumption that this game failed at anything because it's not living up to somebody's individual tastes is astounding, particularly with so many people happy about the sweet spot it's managed.
Right...because a game that is trying to have a more complex battle system is somehow aimed at an audience that doesn't care or want more complex battle systems in sim life games. I have to say that is a pretty "unique" viewpoint to take on the subject.
I would comment on the mental gymnastics, but frankly if you have to contort logic that much to make an "argument" I doubt it will stick. Especially since last I checked this game doesn't have a difficulty slider, and the game that I keep pointing to as having done pretty much everything better in the genre we both like...does. In fact most games in the genre you are saying this game is aiming to be have some sort of difficulty modification. So...another feature missing.
Edit: Nope, just confirmed no way to modify difficulty at all. So yeah, might want to try another approach there, chief. I don't think "arthritic grandmothers" will be having a good time in trying to beat or play this game. Especially if the difficulty takes a sharp curve as you progress the game's story as some claim.
Finally, I also don't recall saying it was a failure, I just have said it's a pretty "meh" game because every system in the game has been done better by games in all the genres it draws from. Including the sim life games you seem to want to play for the "less combat complexity". Which doesn't make it a bad game, but it doesn't make it a good game either. It just makes it "meh".
Difficulty is not a thing in cozy games in general tho. RF it's the exception rather than the rule. It came to get a wider audience range from the HM lovers enhancing the experience and opening more options, and that's why it's great but not a representative of the genre?
Harvestella took the story-driven farming part, and not the complex mechanics when inspiring themselves (because yes, we know, this is not groundbreaking, it's just right for us) So what? Still doesn't make it less good, just not fulfilling your expectatives.
You're entitled to not like the game, our arguments, or change your mind, ofc, I'm not even trying to! I was just agreeing with the person that had the same tastes I have (louder blabla is an expression, come on, if I wanted to make a ted talk I'd make my own thread or anwer to people thinking differently😂)
But I am defending the game and giving my piece because from my experience, I almost ended up not buying it. I didn't play the demo to not spoil the experience of the first time for myself, and the overwhelming hate and negativity made me doubt of it. Did they really made a money milker for people that liked the genre? Turned out after watching more objective reviews that people were really expecting SV meets FF making a complex groundbreaking new type of game. Which wasn't what I wanted or expected so I got it and I'm here loving it. And I hope people reading reviews come across mine and Sunny's and say "oh ok this is for me then!" and companies start to listen that we do exist too. Because aside from HM & SoS (which, they are making more babyish with each new one) and SV, everything else is just on EA or just don't exist. And we want more.
Also, just to not ignore your RF point. RF is more aimed at its combat side hence end-game dungeons that are a pain to beat. In normal mode, you can just use swords, no spells and ignore all the options and mechanics and still doesn't affect your progression. You can also tank it but that doesn't make it any worse, right? You can still choose to use all the mechanics, and enjoy it that way. They did something different and that's also great in it's own way. But again doesn't make different approachs worse either.
15 Conellu Dolls to the Mystery Shop in Shatolla.
RF is an experiment that turned out successful and has inspired a lot of "clones" of the formula. Even one of the most popular iterations Stardew Valley took at least a few notes from RF when implementing the combat in that game.
Anyways at best you are ignoring my points and at worst you just are not bothering to actually read them. Either way I am tired of repeating myself. This game wasn't meant to be "relaxing" in the way Harvest Moon or even Rune Factory were. You can claim it, but if it was really meant to be the farming would be a whole lot deeper then what we got.
The game wasn't aimed at pleasing that kind of player, it was aimed more at the JRPG crowd. The problem being that none of the systems were actually polished to work together. Maybe it really is story related as some people claim, I honestly don't know and frankly it doesn't matter. A game shouldn't be lopsided in development, and this game is pretty darn lopsided.
You enjoy the game? Great. That doesn't mean that it negates the legitimate issues people have, and not once have you actually addressed the points I was making other than "well it doesn't bother me it's like that". Which is again great for you, but doesn't mean the game doesn't have a boatload of design flaws that again could have been better if you actually take a critical mindset.
Either way, I'm done with this conversation and will be unsubscribing from the thread. You do you, but frankly I hold a higher standard for AAA games.
I don't think I'm negating "legitimate" issues. I just don't see those issues, and I feel the community is too harsh on the game (And very focused on convincing people who see no problems that there is one) I literally just want people that looks for the same I do to know Harvestella is that. That's why I'm not out there defending the game from every negative review, just agreeing with the ones that think like I do and making some noise.
But oh well! I'm sorry if by not agreeing with you or your arguments you felt negated, or attacked, wasn't my intention. It just gave me a chance to talk further about it, and now people can read both points of view! So something good came out of it. Happy day!