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i mean in my mind what the point of saving the world if you dont really ahve anything to attach you to it, adding the romanceable and marrage gives that extra kick to the role play experiance of " i must save the world for the one i love" short of thing.. hell in rune factory 5 i started a new game after completing it with a male charater in mind who will fall in love with ♥♥♥♥, the worldkin girl and wants to save the world to protect her, in my mind that adds flavour to the story and adds more reason to keep on playing..
i really hope the seen feed back about adding romance or eles it just a filler game with no flavour to it.
I knew this game was sounding to good to be true. How do you completely miss one of the most important aspects of life sim games (interpersonal relationships including things like friends, romance, family).
i know right, it give mroe meaning on wanting to save the world, or protect your loved ones.. without it... there really not much point to doing much
Curators of the game, who have supposedly played it, have repeatedly confirmed (multiple sources) there is no romance.
My only hope is that it might become DLC of some kind, in which case, even more money....
There may be multiple "endings" seeing as you have to save the world, but I'm not exactly expecting that if they couldn't even put in the basics.
Your mentality is unacceptable, I'll try my hand at correcting it.
1- Relationship are great within the human experience, be them platonic, or romantic, affection, kinship, friendship, love and even courtship are all great things to experience that add to human life.
2- I've never met anyone who has claimed to live a good life, yet lived it entirely or mostly alone, human beings are social, and therefore, our brains need and thrive on connection, again, be that platonic or romantic. (Isolation does proven damage to the psyche).
3-You are right, romance and marriage are optional. But in no freaking way does having romance or marriage take away from or reduce one's ability to have platonic relationships, nor does it diminish the depth of those platonic relationships. One can just as easily have both as they might have one or the other exclusively, and in no way does having romance, lessen the beauty, depth, connection and multitude of ones platonic relationships. (Unless of course one has a controlling and manipulative significant other, in which case, RUN).
4- Romance does NOTHING to ruin a good story, in fact it can only add to a good story. A story is good, or it isn't. Romance is merely one of many features possible in any story, and if done well, it will only contribute to that. Romance in of itself is benign. A story is either good, or bad, because it was written well, or poorly, the genre or features of the story have no real impact, merely, the reception of the public and perception of the individual define such things collectively and subjectively. Romance can be excellent or terrible, if you simply don't like romance, don't watch it, don't engage with it, check your tags, and ensure your never see it, rather than call a benign thing bad simply because you have no taste for the entire experience offered. And in games like Stardew Valley or Harvest Moon, just avoid getting married if possible. (Avoid HM:A Wonderful LIfe- as it is required) As you said, it is optional in life and in many games, therefore, it makes 0 sense you would complain about it being optional in a game, when you simply need not choose that option.
5- If you have "friends" or meet individuals that "accuse" you have having a "crush", then just tell them it isn't true and be done, or get better quality friends. This is not everyone's experience, and just because it is yous does not mean it is absolute by any means. Impossible is simply untrue.
6- Now onto the blatant lie/falsehood/ or severally misguided mistake that encouraged me to write this comment to you.
You claim: "Romance is not, nor has it ever been, important."
Few greater falsehoods than this exist.
I won't give you a complete lecture on the philosophical implications of "important" it is, clearly, a relatively concept, created from a system of value.
What is valuable in this world, is also give this attribute, important. And value, in of itself is not exactly subjective, more so, again, relatively constructed from a network of subjective beliefs and perspectives.
A simple example being a dollar, you may spend it anywhere in the world where people believes it has value, and in this sense, its value is very real, but again, it is merely the subjective belief that is has value to the individual you use it on, that causes it to be useful, however, this individual was influenced and adds small influence to the network of believers that codify the value collectively. Essentially, we all contribute to this collective belief, and only in mass could we collectively alter it. A single person, alone, could do little to influence a dollars value, even if they rejected the concept completely....it would remain beyond them as a real thing, though intangible.
You...clearly have no concept of this.
No amount of your rejection to the value and respect for romance, will negate it.
It exists...and remains BEYOND YOU. Count the epic poems, songs, music, dances, even religious scripts and cultural institutions, that have been built, fought for, and died for, in the name of romance. Count each soul alive this day, most (though not all-sadly) born out of acts of passion, romance, love and commitment between two people. Billions live as walking, talking testaments, immortalizations of two individuals love for each other. It is not only a corner stone of human survival, it is the foundation of many families. Romance is no trifling thing, few things compare in importance in the "collective web of beliefs" to love, and Romance, is one such love that many deeply cherish, deeply respect, and would sacrifice much to have and keep.
In no way is Platonic love lesser, as it also is foundational and important to society, life and humanity as we know it.
But...honestly...
Not important you say?
My God...what is important then?
If by chance you are simply aromatic, that is fine. But understand the simple truth. Such a thing is equivalent to colorblindness. A person missing a few colors, or all of them, can see, live and interact with the world, nearly as easily and completely as a person who can see colors (with a few exceptions). They can enjoy life, and engage with it. But they will always be missing out on experiences that otherwise would give them joy had they the capacity to experience them. Is seeing the rainbow necessary to living a good life? No. But it is a fascinating and wonderful human experience that I, personally, would have much a lesser life had I not experienced it. In this same regard, romance is no different. While not needed for life, it is its own beautiful little rainbow to behold, and much is missed without. This in now way means colorblind or aromatic people can't be happy, it merely means, they don't see everything there is too see within the human experience. They are no lesser as people for this, it merely is the way of things.
Regardless, you alone cannot alter the relative reality that romance is indeed important.
Deal bro.
P.S. You read my post, don't expect short replies from me. I have wind for days.
See, that's the problem. You grind out all of that corn to woo Karen, following which Karen will spend the rest of the game stood in the same corner of your house spouting the same two or three dialogue lines. In a few rare games they might have some utility - helping out on the farm or providing an item - and Rune Factory usually let's you still take them out on adventures. For the most part however they're a non-event, and likely to feature even less in the game than your furniture. Most of the time simply getting to that point isn't particularly compelling either; deliver a single item to them each day until their meter is full, perhaps get two or three cutscenes as you pass arbitrary points on the bar. There's no real sense of the ups and downs of courtship, you'll never find the relationship gets stuck in the doldrums, or ultimately fails because your beau just can't overcome their aversion to people who wield dual blades.
In most of these games marriage ends up being ultimately just filler. It exists solely to motivate the player to grind up character relationships and upgrade their house. This is compounded by the fact the 'getting to know' a character often entails some decent storytelling in the form of romance events and such, but once complete, nada (in fact if one wanted to be cynical, these games seem to embody the notion that the chase is better than the catch). Effectively it reduces marriage to an achievement about as significant as 'harvest 50 vegetables'. Oh, you can have a kid, often by continuing to fill said heart bar, which if you're lucky will net you a new cutscene and a new character who'll proceed to do a convincing impersonation of a piece of furniture. In a rare few games you might even see the kid grow; or rather they may also apply a useful ability to your farm while still standing in the same place and offering the same few lines of dialogue they've been spouting since being brought into the world.
Honestly, I'd rather have NPC's who have interesting and compelling interactions woven throughout the whole arc of the game, whether they can be married or not, than yet another collection of single note wandering heart bars who's story ends as soon as you fill them with corn.
Counter counter point:
"I'd rather have NPC's who have interesting and compelling interactions woven throughout the whole arc of the game..."
And, you have an example of this happening...at all...in...any game?
I'm just curious.
For the most part, I've never played a game that actually balanced or even attempted to create compelling interactions, along with interesting game play. Either the interactions become annoying and cumbersome, getting in the way of the game play, or I'm much more interested in the story and just want to skip the game (thought that is pretty rare to happen). I'm certain such a game exists...I've never played it, nor have I sought for it.
I was busy with Karen.
But...that leads me to ask.
Have you even played farm sims?
Never saw one that did anything like what you were expecting...
So, I'm just assuming you don't particularly like them, to begin with...cause, "repeated dialog" and furniture like NPC wifus, it literally the majority of these games. Portia being the most dynamic in terms of adding extra stuff to do to with them...didn't do much to make them seem deeper though.
Perhaps "goal" oriented games are more your style, for most Farm Life Sims have no goal, and it seems that is exactly what you want and found lacking.
If you find it a "grind" in any way shape or form to play a farm sim....
I dare say you are playing it wrong.
"Grind" implies you were trying to power through a repetitive task such to acquire a goal that will eventually pay off, especially in the case of "revealing" the "real gameplay" you were hoping to get. Something akin to play an MMO for 4000 hours, killing boars and slimes so you can be "strong enough" to play in PVP which is how the game should have been designed from hour 1.
Farm Sims aren't supposed to be grinds, they are mostly reward less work, goalless, that gives you nothing beside the peace in performing the fictional acts. The are supposed to be repetitive, but slowly scalable, (like a golden watering can) that makes you feel like you are getting better as you go. Be it design intention, or an error, they do not typically end and must be abandoned, perhaps, in my mind because what you needed them for in that moment, at that time, you feel you no longer need. The are zen places where failure is impossible, frustration rare, and goals, simple and humble.
In no way is "marrying Karen" the "end" goal, as said, most of these games do not end, they simply force you to abandon them...but they will wait for you forever...to return, if and when you need them again.
Again, there is no "goal" in marrying Karen, there is merely "the ability to do so" as you play through the minor, if existent, story and farm away, creating your own milestones as you go. If you play these games in order to finish them, then perhaps you simply aren't the type to play and enjoy them. Many games await to be conquered and finished and they may be more what you seek, but Farm Life Sims, aren't really that type of game. They exist only to be played. Essentially, no on action in these games is meant to stand alone, all are pretty necessary for the package experience. Its like trying to sell cereal without a spoon, bowl or milk. Yeah, I mean, you can eat it, but you don't have anything worth while until all those thing are working together. Of course, if you played these game elements in isolation, they would be dull, but playing them as they are usually set up, can be very relexing.
You spend a good 12 minutes farming, forging, mining, for the day. Ship all your items, head over to the Bar, find Karen, give her her popcorn, and go to bed feeling like you did a good job. Pat yourself on the head, and dream of that golden watering can your going to save up for next month. Each little day is a tiny achievement, a testament to "hard work" even if in reality your just on your butt pushing buttons. You feel you did something, and you move on, accepting and embracing the little fictional life you've got. After a few in-game weeks of that, Karen's dialog changes, her little grey heart turns a green, and you flip your lid. Its not meant to be an "immersive" experience, its just a little dolop of icing on top of a bran muffin. But its enough to make you smile and move on. When you've gone 4 years of game play, have a Mithril Water Can, saw the bottom of the mines, expanded your farm, won every contest, and had a kid, than you've reached a place where its time to say goodbye and move on. You have to be ready to decided to do that. Those heart events didn't have to be monumental stories, most people's real life romances aren't. You didn't need to save the world. You just sold crops and lived a good little life. As a package, these experiences are cute, sweet, and small in scale. Forcing you to appreciate them when they do happen, because they were rare and uncommon. But that's sort of what made them special. Ultimately, these games, or at least the origins of the genre, were meant to exist as a means of acceptance and escape. Escape from goals, violence, pressure, and the oppressive real world, and acceptance of the simpler truths of life, that, despite never being a hero, you can still have a purpose, and no one has to tell you what it is, you just make it for yourself. In real life, when the majority of "games" want you to murder stuff, murder other players, or just grind endlessly for arbitrary and functionally meaningless achievements, points or *shutter* leaderboards, these little games are a pure escape. There is no status to be won, no flexing, no grinding, no overachieving, no being better or worse, you are both the tallest and smallest of your peers...what you find is merely a reflection of what you have inside...and what you were willing to pull out and examine. That's all there is.... It really isn't for everybody, but to those who love it...many see the good in furniture Karen's and miniature farm lifes.
Regardless, if you want a dating sim that gives a long story and huge chunks of dialog, and progression, than that's a different game genre, but many are out there. If you don't care about the romance at all, and just want interesting characters to listen to, ....books and movies are a better option than games. Rarely have I ever seen games with good or interesting characters that weren't either distractions from play, or hindrance to it. But, again, I'm certain such things exist... I'll even take recommendations.
But, on account of Farm Sims being VERY niche, and very small in budget, scale and popularity (aside from the one off Stardew Valley's large success) then...I'm not sure you can anticipate a Farm Sim with an amazing set of dynamic characters with gripping interactions throughout the story arch.
Doesn't sound like you'll see that in the next decade even. But, as the great Monte Cristo once said, "Wait and Hope".
That's precisely the point. Over the years there's been numerous experiments with the genre - we got dungeons, the addition of RPG mechanics, crafting, interior decorating, whatever they were smoking for One World et al. When it comes to the social side of the games though it's unchanged since the original Harvest Moon, despite it being something various other genres have experimented with (The Sims), even spin offs from the farming genre (Animal Crossing). It's kind of refreshing to see a dev prepared to experiment with that particular aspect of the game after nigh on thirty years. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, and to be fair I'd be a lot more confident if it was one of Squeenix's RPG studios rather than Livewire doing it, but I'd rather see what they can come up with before demanding it conform to an arbitrary criteria that was set the same day Boris Yeltsin started his second term.
Just a side point, Animal Crossing in no way is inspired by the "farming game genre" as, its has no farming. Its purely a social talking game with animal NPCs and house decoration. Not at all connected and in now way did one inspire the other. Though many people who like animal crossing for its laid back no-combat, neverending play style, also like Farming Sims. Similar vibe, but again, completely different.
I've played a lot of RPGs in my time...none actually had interesting characters that, again, didn't hinder or distract from the experience, but again, maybe we don't play the same games. Or perhaps I have a higher standard of what I consider a good character or a good story. Frankly, video games in general fail regularly in the story and characterization department, never has one actually met my standards (well, aside from one from a long time ago and it was no RPG, and the other was called 12 minutes, I believe.)
Regardless, as Mutantbeth said, and as I completely agree, the Harvest Moon games alone HAVE changed the social aspect of the game with time, in exactly the way they described. And the genre as a whole HAS done the same thing.
Portia and Rune Factory did a lot more with dating, Portia specifically did a lot with making certain characters have plot-linked complications in your relationships with characters depending on who you befriend or marry, no spoilers.
Last Sim's game I played was Sim 3, but...besides adding emotions in 4, I don't see what you mean by that genre adding more detailed social aspects. Unless the characters actually speak a real language now, I don't see it. You could marry, have kids, enemies, date, cheat, feuds, various social animations...not sure what they could have added actually that you are referring to.
More on topic though, you seem to assume Harvestella WILL or even "could" innovate on the "social" mechanic of the game...without any evidence to support this. It is one thing to be hopeful they might, but in what way have they shown they will? Further more, you claim the criteria I gave were "arbitrary". If I haven't given enough reason for why these simple rules are indeed far from arbitrary but, also, critical to at the very least my enjoyment of the genre, then I can't be sure how else to do so.
Being able to marry, have kids, make friends, and live within a little fantasy world is the backbone of why these games are called "Farm Life" games, instead of "farming simulators" or even just Farming RPGs, despite having little to do with emulating "life" (again the Sims), they manage to fulfill many of the small milestone like aspirations one has for life, a career, success, marriage, kids, wealth, independence, freedom of choice, etc. These games, while in no way simulate the typical "power fantasy" most gamers seek, various other forms of personal fictional fulfillment can be had with them. And these exceptionally simple mechanics that you claim "arbitrary" have worked for decades for a reason. They emulate what people in their real lives want, even if they are only in miniature.
Its obvious what you seek is a story and characters to follow through it.
These games are not, nor have they ever been that, though some have attempted to be, and many have failed to be. While not impossible, its merely not necessary or perhaps could even be counter intuitive to the experience that these games are attempting to create, depending on the game.
Now you claim to like RPGs, but rarely do they even have social mechanics regardlesa, and rarely are these interactions deep. Many, if anything allow you to "listen" to a characters story or watch them, but few allow you to actually "engage" with it, alter it, change it, or affect it, unless you are speaking of choice based games like dating sims, or the rare choice based RPG like Mass Effect. For the most part, those games ARE a story with game play attached, not a farming sim, which is more so about gameplay and small choices then about a plot.
Farming sims hit a very small sweet spot for being a little like a Lego set, not nearly as free as a Sandbox, but with a Lego set, you have far more rigid options, yet still some degree of freedom in what you do. RPGs can allow freedom in a case like The Elder Scrolls, but the majority of designers fail to create freedom AND story at the same time. In fact, I dare say I've only ever seen Oblivion master the ability to tell a specific linear story, in a Sandbox-like word, but the cost was rather high as these developers chose to have the world itself remain frozen except when the player is present, making for a less dynamic world than what could have been. Despite this, the Elder Scrolls never impressed me with its characters, as they were merely there to serve a single purpose as quest hubs much of the time, and then become irrelevant, so they don't really "captivate" what is missed here.
Many RPGs, especially JRPGs have casts of characters together that grow and change as a unit or group, but again, rarely do you "interact" with them beyond simply watching cut scenes or pressing X to chat.
While farm sims aren't much better or different, what does make them different is the ability to manual "grow" the relationship as your own personal choice as apposed to "watching your character talk for you during a cut scene and noticing relationship forming" or, "being forced to watch a cutscene and make a decision based on what options you get". Its less freedom than, say Portia, where you can set up a date and taking someone around town and here what they have to say there.
None of these things are "deep" by any means, and few games have ever, in any capacity, achieved "deep" in my book, I just think games themeselves have father to go, in the same way "graphics" have gone from lines and dots, to pixels, to sprites, to 3d, to GOOD 3d, the actual substance of games has yet to achieve the deepest level of immersion or depth of character and choice, all during gameplay. This can happen, and innovation is needed, but the lack of depth now, doesn't dampen the good in what already exists.
I could continue, but...
At the end of the day, I have standards.
Remarkably, unreasonably low, easily achievable, and easily replicatable standards for my games. While my standards for stories and characters is higher than most (my original trade is writing), in no way do I have a high standard for games, least of all Farm Life Sims.
As an unbaised observer who might judge all that I've seen and compare it....
Farm Life Sims are ungodly low on the tier list when it comes to "good", "polished" "well-made" games. The best among them are Portia in terms of features and plot, and maybe Stardew Valley in terms of completed finish, but even those games...LACK massively compared to other games...massively. Had I been such an observe in truth, I would avoid Farm Life Sims as a result.
But, they are what I play most, regardless, despite the 3 dollar budgets, broken translations, lots audio clips, unpolished and occasionally unimaginative repackaged mechanics.
Why?
I have low standards and I like what I like.
That small list I gave in the original post.
That's all.
That's the whole list.
I don't ask for more than that, and boom, I'm gonna by the game. Its a done deal.
But, remarkably, Harvestella failed the bar, couldn't pass, didn't even meet those low, low, low standards. I'm certain it will be a great game, but I wasn't asking for much, and it still let me down.
My demands are basic at best, and seeing as they are as ancient as Boris Yeltsin's career...the developers should have known me and mine were expecting them...and they shouldn't have questioned putting them in. Not gonna lie, even if it was shallow like in Skyrim Hearthfire, I would have taken it.
What I don't understand, is why people think I should buy into something like Harvestella, or why they'd defend it, when its not even out yet. If it had proven itself, maybe, but...right now...its anyone's guess. All I know is...
I can't marry Karen, and I'm flipping done.
----
Sorry that was long.
I lost track of the time...
oopsy. Anyway...if you read all that...serious cookie and a thanks to you.