Bellwright

Bellwright

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Paddy May 7, 2024 @ 12:44am
Is it worth it?
Yes another one of these posts however for those who are happy to go into depth do you think this game is worth it yet and why do you enjoy it? I love Kingdom Come deliverance, Manor Lords, Bannorlord etc. Is this game essentially a mash of Kingdom come deliverance settlement building DLC, Bannorlord combat and Manor Lord resource and settler management? To me it very much looks that way.

I would be playing solo. Is this still enjoyable?

Also what is the overall end goal? The one thing i dislike about these sort of survival games is that they have no overall goal other than to keep going. With Total War games, Manor Lords and Bannorlord a common goal and enjoyable one is to conquer the entire map. Can you do that in this game? Fight against other factions and conquer the map, building cities etc?
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Showing 16-30 of 31 comments
Nomac May 7, 2024 @ 3:19am 
Is it worth?

definitely!
Paddy May 7, 2024 @ 3:37am 
Loving the replies guys. Thank you. I also notice in videos that your hosting is essentially just shakes. Can buildings be upgraded, for example houses upgraded to be stone buildings that are nicely decorated. It would certainly give the feel of settlement progression toward a full beautiful town
Icarius Fallen May 7, 2024 @ 4:03am 
Originally posted by Onibaku:
Insert a bunch of stuff that shows a lack of knowledge about Alpha-state games, how this game itself functions, or downplays bugs.




Nah, my rig is fine, and I'm far from the only one with a good rig that is having problems. I've seen no less than twenty threads about the same issues (with multiple replies) complaining about the same crashes. This is because the crashes are not related to your rig, but actually issues with AI pathing and AI calculations. The more villagers you have, or the more brigands/bandits in the world, the more crashes you'll have.

Also, the game has a loading screen before the main menu, and a loading screen when you load your save.. so.. the fact that you don't know that.. kind of makes your statements pretty sus... especially if you think this isn't an alpha state game.

There's also the fact that you're surprised quick travel doesn't have a loading screen... most games with quick travel don't have a loading screen, as long as you're not loading a new zone. Since it's one big world map, you're just being teleported to the new area.. just like 7days to die, or any number of other similar open world games.

I can only assume you haven't played very many EA games, if you think this one is in a better state than most of them. As someone who actually has played EA games.. and is actually familiar with what a Beta and Alpha state in game is (because, you know, we used to get paid to beta test, instead of paying to do it), this game is still firmly under alpha state.

Alpha state is basically working on setting basic game systems, basic coding, and a proof of playability. Base systems and mechanics will undergo heavy modification and adjustment during an alpha state, and bugs are frequent, which typically involves nearly daily patches to resolve game-breaking bugs.

A Beta state means that most assets are finalized, all core systems are finalized, and the majority of serious bugs have been squashed. Remaining bugs are niche-situation bugs, crash to desktops are rare, and the majority of work is being devoted towards optimization and improving performance on the widest range of machines possible. This is a fine-tuning phase, and is also typically where most balance-adjustments are made. All core systems and 99% of all features are set in stone and complete. Graphical and audio assets that are placeholders are gone, and have been replaced with the final versions. This is typically also where any voice-acted lines will be put into the game.

This game is firmly an alpha-state game. AI voices (Devs admitted they are placeholders) are used, there are a handful of placeholder graphics, systems are not finalized, CTD's are common, there are multiple bugs that have required daily patches, other bugs that the devs know about, but have not yet patched (including items disappearing from villager's inventories), the game is not optimized, many features are not even in development yet, and it has issues functioning on a wide variety of machines adequately, whether it be the numerous reports of high CPU/GPU usage, cards running hot during the game, random frame spikes, or various CTD and save corruption issues (Ranging from bricking your save, to resetting the completion % of all buildings currently under construction).

I've been looking forward to the game since the steam nextfest, and on paper, it's everything I want, but I'm not going to misrepresent the game in its current state, and neither should you, if you actually care about the game and want it to be successful. If you tell someone it's in an alpha state, and they choose not to purchase yet because it is, they'll purchase it when it's in a better state, and enjoy it. If you tell them it's not in an alpha state and they buy it, only to discover it is very much an early alpha state game with multiple game-breaking bugs, not only will they likely refund, but they will review it negatively, and tell everyone that talks to them about it not to buy it. The chances of someone in that situation purchasing it again when the bugs are ironed out is next to zero.

You do more harm by misrepresenting the game, attacking anyone who points out common bugs (that very visible and easy to find multiple reports of, across the steam forums AND the reddit for this game), and claiming that it's "Feature complete", like a beta game would be, than you would by just admitting to its current shortcomings. or acknowledging that your experience likely isn't the standard, and that others have experienced issues.
sgruene May 7, 2024 @ 4:07am 
Originally posted by Paddy:
Loving the replies guys. Thank you. I also notice in videos that your hosting is essentially just shakes. Can buildings be upgraded, for example houses upgraded to be stone buildings that are nicely decorated. It would certainly give the feel of settlement progression toward a full beautiful town

No, there is no decorate. All buildings are predesign and you have to build new Tier 2 ore Tier 3 buildings, there is no upgrate.
Icarius Fallen May 7, 2024 @ 4:10am 
Originally posted by Paddy:
Loving the replies guys. Thank you. I also notice in videos that your hosting is essentially just shakes. Can buildings be upgraded, for example houses upgraded to be stone buildings that are nicely decorated. It would certainly give the feel of settlement progression toward a full beautiful town


Shacks are tier 1 houses. You can upgrade to wooden housing (tier 2) that houses 3 people... A tavern that can house 3 people and has a cooking pot (And takes a lot of room) and a tier 3 "big house" that can house 5 people, and takes up about as much space as a tavern.

Stone buildings and Walls currently aren't in the game. A few buildings are currently bugged (Village granary has some major bugs that will softlock your game unless you destroy it, The warehouse will make your villagers get stuck or drop items if the spot that they interact with it is even slightly elevated, so it requires perfectly flat terrain).

There are 3 tiers of MOST buildings. Some of the buildings require you to liberate NPC villages in order to recruit specialists to research these buildings.

You cannot upgrade buildings, you must build a completely new structure.. you also cannot move buildings.. you must dismantle them and rebuild them from scratch. This isn't a big deal with shacks and tier 1 buildings, but becomes increasingly more difficult with tier 2 and tier 3's.. A tier 3 building can take 3 villagers with 10 in laboring (the construction skill) over 2 in-game days of work in order to build. So if you rotate it the wrong way or put it in the wrong spot.. the building may not function properly, and you'll have to tear it down and rebuild it. There's a ghost outline of what the building will look like when you place the blueprint, but it doesn't show you where the solitary interaction points are on the blueprint.. you have to build one first and memorize where those are (for instance, the warehouse has a cart, a door, some barrels, and two stacks of crates on different sides of the building.. but only one crate on the two stacks of crates can be interacted with by the player or NPCs in order to store/retrieve things from it).
Paddy May 7, 2024 @ 4:10am 
Originally posted by sgruene:
Originally posted by Paddy:
Loving the replies guys. Thank you. I also notice in videos that your hosting is essentially just shakes. Can buildings be upgraded, for example houses upgraded to be stone buildings that are nicely decorated. It would certainly give the feel of settlement progression toward a full beautiful town

No, there is no decorate. All buildings are predesign and you have to build new Tier 2 ore Tier 3 buildings, there is no upgrate.

No worries. How much better do tier 3 housing look? Can you make a beautiful town or does it all still look very basic? Also do your villagers have daily routines including sleeping similar to fallout 4 settlements. Do they have wants and needs outside of food such as entertainment, taverns, card games etc
Icarius Fallen May 7, 2024 @ 4:19am 
Originally posted by Paddy:
Originally posted by sgruene:

No, there is no decorate. All buildings are predesign and you have to build new Tier 2 ore Tier 3 buildings, there is no upgrate.

No worries. How much better do tier 3 housing look? Can you make a beautiful town or does it all still look very basic? Also do your villagers have daily routines including sleeping similar to fallout 4 settlements. Do they have wants and needs outside of food such as entertainment, taverns, card games etc


You have to place them more or less facing the same way, otherwise the AI pathfinding will get stuck, so placing the same buildings nearby can be a bit lame looking. Likewise, tier 3 buildings are BIG, they take a lot of space. They have a few decorations attached to them, but nothing you can really customize.

Villagers sleep for a short period of game time, roughly midnight they'll walk home, then wake up at roughly 6am. They will go to stockpiles to eat if they get hungry.. otherwise they walk around and harvest/work based on what tasks you have set. Most resources are consumed by this (animals, trees, etc). Trees do not respawn, Ore nodes do not deplete, Animals sometimes don't respawn, and herbs they forage for regrow every so often, in the same spot they were harvested from.

They have no needs outside of food. There is a very basic moral system. You get a -5 morale if you have more than three villagers from the same original village living in your settlement, and a -5 if you have villagers recruited from more than 3 different settlements. They get morale boosts from traits, from being well-fed (good quality foods), from having certain buildings built.

You'll need to have multiple settlements for certain resources (Iron is only in the southern part of the map, copper and tin only in the upper portion, peat only in the swamp, garlic is only really available around the fishing lake... and your people cannot fish, so you can only buy fish. All of these, except fish, are essential resources), so you'll have to setup an outpost system.
Paddy May 7, 2024 @ 4:29am 
Originally posted by Icarius Fallen:
Originally posted by Paddy:

No worries. How much better do tier 3 housing look? Can you make a beautiful town or does it all still look very basic? Also do your villagers have daily routines including sleeping similar to fallout 4 settlements. Do they have wants and needs outside of food such as entertainment, taverns, card games etc


You have to place them more or less facing the same way, otherwise the AI pathfinding will get stuck, so placing the same buildings nearby can be a bit lame looking. Likewise, tier 3 buildings are BIG, they take a lot of space. They have a few decorations attached to them, but nothing you can really customize.

Villagers sleep for a short period of game time, roughly midnight they'll walk home, then wake up at roughly 6am. They will go to stockpiles to eat if they get hungry.. otherwise they walk around and harvest/work based on what tasks you have set. Most resources are consumed by this (animals, trees, etc). Trees do not respawn, Ore nodes do not deplete, Animals sometimes don't respawn, and herbs they forage for regrow every so often, in the same spot they were harvested from.

They have no needs outside of food. There is a very basic moral system. You get a -5 morale if you have more than three villagers from the same original village living in your settlement, and a -5 if you have villagers recruited from more than 3 different settlements. They get morale boosts from traits, from being well-fed (good quality foods), from having certain buildings built.

You'll need to have multiple settlements for certain resources (Iron is only in the southern part of the map, copper and tin only in the upper portion, peat only in the swamp, garlic is only really available around the fishing lake... and your people cannot fish, so you can only buy fish. All of these, except fish, are essential resources), so you'll have to setup an outpost system.

Have you fought in any large battles yet? I love Bannorlord combat but always felt battles ended too quickly. Battles with less than 20 end in about 20 seconds
Icarius Fallen May 7, 2024 @ 4:40am 
Originally posted by Paddy:

Have you fought in any large battles yet? I love Bannorlord combat but always felt battles ended too quickly. Battles with less than 20 end in about 20 seconds

I've cleared out pretty much all of the brigands and bandit camps, including brigand headquarters. You're not going to end up with epic, long battles with companions fighting alongside you, but you can have longer ones if you're trying to solo the brigand headquarters.

Most NPC vs NPC battles are over in about four or five minutes.. you'll spend more time traveling to the battlefield than you will fighting... and probably close to about the same time looting it as the battle lasts.

Companion AI will also sometimes let enemies just smack them in the back of the head, while they chase another enemy, instead of turning around to defend themselves. Which can be frustrating.

There's also the annoyance of having to manually feed your companions when you set out with them as a warband, sometimes your people will put their shields or bows away because they did a job that required a two-handed tool, and you'll have to manually equip them again.

You can order them to equip weapons from weapon racks, or grab food/armor from stockpiles/storages, but they won't replace tools with shields and bows.. and they aren't very smart about what they grab.

"Capturing" enemy camps basically consists of murdering all the people there.
Liberating villages means you get trust high enough with the village, talk to the elder, murder the brigands that are patrolling it (typically 4 - 6 enemies in chainmail/platemail type armor), then build a belltower, before finally going out to murder a liberation squad that is leaving from Brigand headquarters.

Then every couple of days, the brigand HQ will respawn (if you killed everyone there) and a new liberation party will also spawn and head from brigand HQ towards one of the cities you've liberated.

The game is in a very early state still. Mount and Blade was a bit more polished with combat at this point in its development, but that's all it was, was combat, at the time.
Last edited by Icarius Fallen; May 7, 2024 @ 4:42am
princebusta1st May 7, 2024 @ 4:55am 
I absolutely love this game, however i haven't been able to play it for the last couple of days due to constant crashing.
PhalanX May 7, 2024 @ 4:56am 
Originally posted by Icarius Fallen:
I love the game.. but I just spent 1 and a half hours in loading screens, only to crash after 2 - 3 minutes of gameplay each time...

Which I wish I could say is a rare occurrence.. but of the 60ish hours I've played... 20 - 30 of them have been in loading screens, and crashes are pretty frequent, despite exceeding the recommended hardware requirements.

The guy above me shills for the game hard in forums, he spends a lot of time attacking anyone with any criticism of the game, and is most definitely wrong about it being polished.. a cursory glance at the topics in this very forum can show that. He knows it isn't polished as well, he just really, really likes the game and is a big fan of the developers.. so rose tinted glasses (to put it nicely).

The concept is great, the devs were actively improving it daily until recently, and it has a lot of promise, but it's far from polished, and it's absolutely riddled with bugs (there's one where your followers actually delete items if they pick up something that they don't have space for in the seed bag or similar backpacks).

Likewise, the game doesn't have a ton of content.. it's pretty shallow, as far as mechanics go, and there's a long way to go towards improving settlement management. We only recently got the ability to filter what goes into the food storage (the NPCs would previously overfill the food cellars with wheat, grain, and rotten food, none of which ever decay, while the cellars are specialized storage that slow down the decay of food, and have a small storage capacity as the trade-off).

There's also a bug where if you build one of the neutral village upgrades (none of which actually do anything to change the village's militia or prosperity, but they give you renown.. which you keep if you deconstruct them) called the Granary, your NPCs will all prioritize hauling items from your storage to this granary, which you can't turn off in any way, and will also attempt to fill the storage of it with water from your well. This granary obviously isn't meant for players to use, and has 100,000 storage space.. but again, the villagers will haul everything you own to it.. and also insist on filling it with 100,000 units of water from your well (neglecting whatever else needs to be done). There's a few bugs like this, which have been present at launch, that make it a bad idea to build certain structures.

Balancing needs serious work at the moment. you have structures that are more advanced, but offer you less benefit than the previous tiers. For instance, the warehouse takes up the space of 8 Barns (if you crammed them together), but only has 2,500 storage... while 6 barns offers you 1,000 storage for the same space (When nicely spaced apart so you can walk between each one), and doesn't require nearly as much labor to construct, nor as many resources. So that type of thing still needs a serious balancing pass.

If you're frustrated by crashes that set you back 20 - 30 minutes worth of progress, aren't willing to spend 20 - 60 minutes in loading screens from back-to-back crashes, or expect the game to be in a beta-test state, you might want to wait a month or two.

The game is very firmly an alpha, at this state in time.
I agree with your other statements but I think its time to upgrade your rig, the loading screen takes 30 seconds to load in for me
Siozen May 7, 2024 @ 5:29am 
Can anyone who has played Medieval Dynasty and this one compare the two? I couldn't really get into MD much but this game looks less tedious for building up your town.
Paddy May 7, 2024 @ 6:09am 
Originally posted by Icarius Fallen:
Originally posted by Paddy:

Have you fought in any large battles yet? I love Bannorlord combat but always felt battles ended too quickly. Battles with less than 20 end in about 20 seconds

I've cleared out pretty much all of the brigands and bandit camps, including brigand headquarters. You're not going to end up with epic, long battles with companions fighting alongside you, but you can have longer ones if you're trying to solo the brigand headquarters.

Most NPC vs NPC battles are over in about four or five minutes.. you'll spend more time traveling to the battlefield than you will fighting... and probably close to about the same time looting it as the battle lasts.

Companion AI will also sometimes let enemies just smack them in the back of the head, while they chase another enemy, instead of turning around to defend themselves. Which can be frustrating.

There's also the annoyance of having to manually feed your companions when you set out with them as a warband, sometimes your people will put their shields or bows away because they did a job that required a two-handed tool, and you'll have to manually equip them again.

You can order them to equip weapons from weapon racks, or grab food/armor from stockpiles/storages, but they won't replace tools with shields and bows.. and they aren't very smart about what they grab.

"Capturing" enemy camps basically consists of murdering all the people there.
Liberating villages means you get trust high enough with the village, talk to the elder, murder the brigands that are patrolling it (typically 4 - 6 enemies in chainmail/platemail type armor), then build a belltower, before finally going out to murder a liberation squad that is leaving from Brigand headquarters.

Then every couple of days, the brigand HQ will respawn (if you killed everyone there) and a new liberation party will also spawn and head from brigand HQ towards one of the cities you've liberated.

The game is in a very early state still. Mount and Blade was a bit more polished with combat at this point in its development, but that's all it was, was combat, at the time.

Five minutes isn't bad. That is about how long big battles last in Bannorlord.
Zya May 7, 2024 @ 8:05am 
Originally posted by Siozen:
Can anyone who has played Medieval Dynasty and this one compare the two? I couldn't really get into MD much but this game looks less tedious for building up your town.

I played the heck out of Medieval Dynasty, and Bellwright has all the features I felt Medieval Dynasty was lacking, so I was really excited to play it. Unfortunately, Bellwright is slow progression wise... to the point I decided doing my dishes would be more fun. It's slower than Medieval Dynasty, imo, and that was pretty darn slow.

For starters, there isn't a hunger and thirst system, it uses a mechanic similar to Valheim where you start with very little health or stamina and use food to buff those pools. The buffs for the early foods don't last very long, though, and spoilage happens very quickly so you're constantly out foraging/trapping/hunting for food that will give you a decent stamina pool... but even when you have it, your stamina depletes VERY quickly, so you still end up literally walking everywhere because your character can't run but for a few seconds before their stamina is drained. Traversing the map just becomes tedious. No horses or donkeys to ride like we had in Medieval Dynasty, either. The world is lovely, so I tried to just enjoy being in it, but your inventory is pitifully small, too, even after you get some bag upgrades. Nothing stacks. 1 stick takes up one slot, so just getting enough wood for your campfire and a little reserve can literally fill up your inventory. It's a very annoying system that results in a lot of needless back and forth travel.

The companion system theoretically should reduce and potentially eliminate a lot of this monotony, but it hasn't yet. I can see in the skill tree that there is potential for it, but getting there is just... painfully dull. lol I'm still hunting my bootie off during winter to provide enough food for my settlement. Sometimes my workers will refuse to eat so I have to force feed them (I'm assuming this is a bug and will be fixed). Arrows only stack to 30, and even though you aim dead center on a deer's head, the shot is still going to miss half the time. Melee shots seem the same. Combat is actually more janky in Bellwright than it was in Medieval Dynasty, and that's actually really surprising to me, cause Medieval Dynasty had some jank combat. lol I do like that the management system for your workers is available from anywhere on the map, so if you're out in bum $%*& Egypt and you realize you need your workers to gather flax, you can have them do that from across the map so it's ready for you when you eventually slog back home.

Bellwright has SO MUCH POTENTIAL, and I want it to be fun because on paper it has everything I have been looking for, but I don't personally find the game play enjoyable at the moment. My greatest turn off is the Valheim style food system, if that doesn't bug you at all, then you would probably be ok to take a chance and try it in early access, but my personal recommendation is to wait for the game to cook a little longer and receive more bug fixes and fine tuning, because while it has potential it's not particularly fun at the moment either. I've found the progression to be much slower than Medieval Dynasty's progression, and we don't have the customization options that were available in MD when creating a new save in Bellwright yet, either. So you can't adjust the difficulty of the more tedious aspects of the game like we could in Medieval Dynasty.
Paddy May 7, 2024 @ 8:45am 
I just realised there is no controller support. Hopefully it will be added in the near future
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Date Posted: May 7, 2024 @ 12:44am
Posts: 31