Game seems super easy

[PhamTrinli]

Not sure if I just made a really good custom class but the game, to me at least, so far seems super easy. First time checking it out.

Back in the day my first tes game was morrowind when it first came out. Never tried this one before now. I'm using the unity version so maybe that makes a difference as well?

I read some helpful things on the wiki like the dodge skill actually increasing your chance to miss targets so I was able to avoid broken things like that in the game.

I am pretty much breezing through all the dungeons. Toughest thing I've killed is giants and I have no idea where that is in the grand scale of enemies in this game, but if my character keeps scaling like he is right now through the rest of the game I don't foresee much of a challenge. The only challenge in my mind right now is figuring out where to go, who to talk to etc. to complete the investigation portions of the MSQ.

[PhamTrinli]

The Great Cornholio a écrit :

you dont need Recall, Levitate there is almost always a different way to reach where you are trying to go

I obviously don't know much about the experience of the game as a whole yet, but just on principle and from other TES titles I've played - I would tend to agree and argue that it's more of a crutch.

[Zsrai]

The Great Cornholio a écrit :

you dont need Recall, Levitate there is almost always a different way to reach where you are trying to go

Recall helps a lot with some of the timed Main Quests, but yeah it's not necessary. I sure wouldn't want to have to back track through some of those dungeons I've cleared though.

Levitate makes some points a LOT smoother, but you can also stock up on some potions to help with that. Some of the story sections that need it, that have switches nearby, can cut the timing close if you don't know exactly the path to take, IIRC.

[lonetrav]

lonetrav a écrit :

I'll start a game with a character similar to yours, and try a few dungeons. ...

First impressions: The starter dungeon was really "super easy". Then my character went to Daggerfall, trying to get a quest to do something in a dungeon. Which turned out to be not so easy: Not because nobody wanted to speak with the character (a few didn't, but there were enough left - as to be expected with low PER). Most quest offers were local or courier quests, and the Mages Guild refused to accept the character as a new member (again, as was to be expected). But eventually he was sent to a dungeon (a real one, not a crypt or grave), where he has arrived now.

I'll see how it goes. But I'm pretty sure it will be the only dungeon this character sees. If I enjoy the dungeon, I'll start a new game with a similar, but optimised character (depending on my experiences in the dungeon - I suppose playing without magic will require some character micromanagement, which I'm not keen to do), If I don't I'll just stop.

By the way, I play this game in classic Daggerfall, not in DFU.

[Ralzar]

A pure physical fighter like OP built will waltz over just about anything in the game.

Personally I would drop a couple of Advantages and rather increase the HitPoints Per Level, because a big HP pool is good against alpha-striking casters.

But for everything else that could be a problem because of lack of spells: Join a temple and buy some potions? If you have a couple of Cure, Free Action, Levitate and Water Walking/Breathing potions you are all set for any dungeon.

And as a couple have said here, Recall is handy but not at all needed. Particularly when playing DFU, since the map is much easier to read and navigate.

[lonetrav]

lonetrav a écrit :

I'll see how it goes.

Badly. The dungeon is called "Andane Laboratory" (not known in the internet), and my character is stuck. A few rooms, a few enemies, no problem. But then no more doors, just a red brick thing. Which I thought is a teleporter, but it's a deadly trap. I searched the 3 or 4 rooms for secret doors, nothing.

I don't say it's a bug - it may also have to do with the character I'm playing. Is it possible that such a character can't find secret doors? Or that the trap reacts to different characters differently? I may also have missed a special small spot somewhere, a lever or so. I'll keep searching for a while, but if I don't find anything soon, I'll give up.

[Ralzar]

lonetrav a écrit :

lonetrav a écrit :

I'll see how it goes.

Badly. The dungeon is called "Andane Laboratory" (not known in the internet), and my character is stuck. A few rooms, a few enemies, no problem. But then no more doors, just a red brick thing. Which I thought is a teleporter, but it's a deadly trap. I searched the 3 or 4 rooms for secret doors, nothing.

I don't say it's a bug - it may also have to do with the character I'm playing. Is it possible that such a character can't find secret doors? Or that the trap reacts to different characters differently? I may also have missed a special small spot somewhere, a lever or so. I'll keep searching for a while, but if I don't find anything soon, I'll give up.

Secret doors are found by using the map. Simply pan the map around and look for any doors you have not walked through. The map does not distinguish between secret doors and normal doors.

Red Brick walls are most likely a placeholder texture from development. It is used both for blocking off doorways that just go into the void and for teleporters and traps.

From your description: are you in a room that leads to a winding stair up to a room with the red brick wall in the middle of the room? There is a secret door in the starter room.

[lonetrav]

Ralzar a écrit :

...From your description: are you in a room that leads to a winding stair up to a room with the red brick wall in the middle of the room? There is a secret door in the starter room.

Shame on me :-)! It's the one indeed. I know now why I didn't find it: I forgot to scroll down the map to the ground floor - all I saw was the upper floor, with no secret door, of course. Shouldn't have happened to me.
But it's hidden well, in a dark corner, hardly visible without consulting the map (most secret doors I remember are easier to spot).
The trap is not just a texture, it's a block away from all walls, and it kills on both sides.
Thanks!

[TirAsleen]

The easiest TES i played was MW, but i did not play Skyrim yet.

MW was so easy when i played it on the release, i had to quit. Sure you move slow at the start, but quickly become very op by just resting and doing stupid stuff, + there is the enchantment and alchemy expoit that just breaks the game entirely. The same applies to Arena and Daggerfall, but at least those have "Dungeons" that are big enough to make you and your next skeleton scream.

[Zsrai]

TirAsleen a écrit :

The easiest TES i played was MW, but i did not play Skyrim yet.

MW was so easy when i played it on the release, i had to quit. Sure you move slow at the start, but quickly become very op by just resting and doing stupid stuff, + there is the enchantment and alchemy expoit that just breaks the game entirely. The same applies to Arena and Daggerfall, but at least those have "Dungeons" that are big enough to make you and your next skeleton scream.

All of the TES games are brokenly easy if you min-max/break the game with how alchemy/enchanting/general crafting/class advantages/stat growth/etc work. The real solution is "house rule" or "roleplay" and not abuse those systems past your "sweet spot" of having fun and feeling powerful.

[lonetrav]

TirAsleen a écrit :

The easiest TES i played was MW,... there is the enchantment and alchemy expoit that just breaks the game entirely...

Why do you use an exploit in the first place? Using exploits kills fun (just like guides and walkthroughs) - but they can be avoided easily, by not using them.
Did you discover the exploit yourself?

By the way, I'm not aware that Morrowind was described and marketed as a dungeon crawler.

[TirAsleen]

lonetrav a écrit :

t place? Using exploits kills fun (just like guides and walkthroughs) - but they can be avoided easily, by not using them.
Did you discover the exploit yourself?

By the way, I'm not aware that Morrowind was described and marketed as a dungeon crawler.

Yeah, i played the game without a guide around 2k. Later i replayed the game to see, if lycantrophy was done some justice in Bloodmoon, but of course that was also not a labor of love compared to how its done in DF.

It was marketed as a dungeon crawler by describing the game as a Sequel to Arena & Daggerfall, both games had very large and intense dungeon crawling, it was on the cover, you know when people still bought games in stores.

This is the sequel to Daggerfall, done by the same lead devs.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1685310/The_Wayward_Realms/

[lonetrav]

TirAsleen a écrit :

... It was marketed as a dungeon crawler by describing the game as a Sequel to Arena & Daggerfall, both games had very large and intense dungeon crawling, it was on the cover, you know when people still bought games in stores.

This is a wild personal interpretation. Read the Steam store description of Morrowind - no word of dungeon-crawling (a big one is mentioned in the Tribunal description - but that one is really big - and different from Daggerfall's). Werewolves are mentioned in the Bloodmoon description, as one of several points, and close to the end of the description.

Read the Introduction of the manual. It begins with "The essence of any Elder Scrolls role-playing game has always been simple: let you do what you want, and make sure you have fun doing it. Huge, detailed, and open-ended are words that frequently come up when talking about A RENA , DAGGERFALL, and now MORROWIND."
It says clearly in which sense Morrowind is a sequel of Arena and Daggerfall. And again, dungeons are not mentioned ("huge, detailed, and open-ended" can't refer to dungeons, neither in Morrowind nor in Arena nor in Daggerfall - or have you seen "open-ended" dungeons anywhere?).

I don't have the original box anymore, but I doubt that Morrowind is advertised as a dungeon crawler there.

Where exactly did Bethesda say that Morrowind is a dungeon crawler?

I don't know how much you know about the history of the TES games. Daggerfall was a creative experiment in generating huge convoluted 3D dungeons all using the same building blocks from a construction set (and it was marketed as such). 20-odd dungeons were hand-designed, all others randomly generated, but persistent.
These dungeons received very mixed player reactions (carefully worded), and Bethesda decided to not move on in that direction. Compared with Daggerfall's, Morrowind's dungeons were tiny, and the structure was not overly complicated (and Oblivion's were somewhat larger again, but still far smaller than Daggerfall's).
It's obvious that Bethesda never wanted to design Morrowind to be a dungeon crawler, and wasn't interested to market Morrowind as a dungeon crawler.

[TirAsleen]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=464455411

Enjoy.

And btw, did you not see the link to The Wayward Realms?

I can only tell you - honestly- i did not like Morrowind after playing Daggerfall in the early 2Ks It was not the same game anymore. I returned to MW 2 decades later and played through all its expansions and still did not like it, and i really expected more at least a good story for that sacrafice of removing huge dungeon content. But there was nothing i cared about. Some mediocre normal sized dungeons were added that the vanilla game never had and thats it.
The game is ok, but not a complete sequel of the previous game designs the most important one was large world and dungeons and that mark was absolutely missed in MW the rest is a matter of taste, if you like bad forms and a broken unbalanced game or not.

Its not a sequel of Arena and Daggerfall at all just by game design, which is not surprising since the creators of TES left after TES II.

Happens all the time frequently. Or do you think Diablo 3 and 4 were made by its creators either and its intended game design?

Or Fallout 3 and 4? Do you even know who Tim Cain is? Bethesda bought an IP and had no clue how it works, so much was seen in Fallout 3. They made a random postapocalyptic game but not Fallout. Original Fallout games were well written, had black humor and tactical combat like x-com.
Obsidian had to show them how its done with New Vegas. Now they failed completely with Starfield.
So Bethesda has quite the expierence of using other IPs to make their own thing for sales.

"People make games not studios and publishers."

Obviously Julian Le Fay and Ted Peterson agree with me or they wouldn't make a new spiritual successor to Daggerfall and call it "Grand RPG" a clear indicator of what the core design of TES was and *is* all about.

The entire point of TES was to make the biggest RPG ever, thats not something to scrap with sequels and write it off as "creative experiment"

You are the one who make the wild claims aka "personal interpretation", i provided you links, names and facts.

And i expect from you providing something equal or the discussion is finished.

[lonetrav]

TirAsleen a écrit :

... And btw, did you not see the link to The Wayward Realms?
I can only tell you - honestly- i did not like Morrowind after playing Daggerfall in the early 2Ks It was not the same game anymore. I returned to MW 2 decades later and played through all its expansions and still did not like it, and i really expected more at least a good story for that sacrafice of removing huge dungeon content. But there was nothing i cared about. Some mediocre normal sized dungeons were added that the vanilla game never had and thats it. ...

Fair enough. The only reason I wrote my last post was because you seem to identify "sequel" with "more of the same" - which would apply to all sequels of Arena only partially (if at all), and certainly not to specifics like dungeons.
When I said "wild personal interpretation", this referred to (as I quoted) "It was marketed as a dungeon crawler by describing the game as a Sequel to Arena & Daggerfall". And whatever "links, names and facts" you provided, evidence that Morrowind was "marketed as a dungeon crawler was not among them (and I provided quotes and evidence that it is not true).
Unless you identify "sequel" with "dungeon crawler", just because the two predecessors had some degree of dungeon crawling (plus a lot more, which may not be important for you). I accept it as your personal interpretation, but I can't share it.

Edit:
About Wayward Realms: I'm not interested in unfinished and unreleased stuff, marketing descriptions and trailers, and I don't like hyping. If and when it's released, I'll have a look.

And about Morrowind: I agree with Zsrai's comment above about house rules and role-playing. For me Morrowind is a huge role-playing playground, in which I determine how I play (within the framework of the game).
For example, I played the whole main quest once with a character who used hand-to-hand fighting only (and healing spells). Or with another one who never wore any armour (and without any other protective means. like enchantments, spells, potions, ...). I never use any exploits (why? to make an easy game even easier?).
And I played a lot with a character who didn't fight at all. I didn't manage to complete the main quest (and don't know if it's possible at all - likely not), but it's interesting how far you can get, and how much I could enjoy the game by playing without violence.

The main point is having fun, and having fun your way (not someone else's), isn't it? If you don't have fun, do something else. Morrowind gives you the opportunity to try out many different things and to adjust the difficulty to your liking (even without mods and console). But it doesn't appeal to everyone - obviously.