An odd question...

[Wandering Mania]

So this may seem like a really stupid question but...
What are soul gems used for in Daggerfall?

I mean enchantment don't need/use them. You can't sell them anywhere. But you can buy them from the mages guild and some temples at a high(er) rank. But they seemingly don't do, or are used for anything; At least not as far as I have seen so far.

And on top of all that; I can't find any information on them other than 'They exist in game'.

So anyone that can answer that question is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[fracs]

Creating Items with Bound Souls
The "Soul Bound" enchantment is considered a disadvantage, whereby the enchanted item is bound to a non-human creature's soul (as listed here). The more powerful the creature, the more powerful the enchanted item may be (as most creatures' souls will apply a negative modifier to the enchanted item's total enchantment point capacity, thus increasing the item's net available capacity). Moreover, certain creatures' souls apply additional advantages and disadvantages to items enchanted with them. If the enchanted item breaks, the creature is released and will attack you. Applying this enchantment requires you to have a soul gem in your inventory containing a creature's soul.

To acquire a non-human creature's soul, you must buy a soul gem and have a spell with the effect "Soul Trap". Cast the spell on a creature, then kill it before the spell's duration expires. If you are successful, one of your soul gems should indicate in the info tooltip that it contains a creature's soul. An easier way to trap creatures' souls is to have Azura's Star: whenever you kill a creature, if Azura's Star is currently empty, the creature's soul will be trapped inside the Star. Details regarding the effects related to the use of various creatures' souls in the Soul Bound enchantment are provided here, along with the monetary value of soul gems containing each type of creature's soul.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Enchantment_Power#Soul_Bound_Table

[Wandering Mania]

Originally posted by fracs:

Bound enchantment are provided here, along with the monetary value of soul gems containing each type of creature's soul.

Ahh so it's for that specific enchantment. Gotcha.

But the 'monetary value' seems to be zero no matter the bound soul; As you can't sell the gems to anyone. Pawn shops don't take 'em. Jewelry shops don't take 'em. General stores don't take 'em. And there's no place to sell in temples or mages guilds.

So unless you are looking to use them directly for an enchantment that you want, the entirety of the spell, and gems, seems to have no purpose. Correct?

Gods I miss the 'every shop buys everything' from the newer TES games already.

[fracs]

Originally posted by Wandering Mania:

Originally posted by fracs:

Bound enchantment are provided here, along with the monetary value of soul gems containing each type of creature's soul.

Ahh so it's for that specific enchantment. Gotcha.

Correct?

Gods I miss the 'every shop buys everything' from the newer TES games already.

Yes.

Even in Skyrim you need a perk in Speechcraft tree if you want to sell any item to the trader. Not sure about ESO though.

[Wandering Mania]

Originally posted by fracs:

Even in Skyrim you need a perk in Speechcraft tree if you want to sell any item to the trader. Not sure about ESO though.

Well true.
But still:
Can they be sold anywhere?
Is there any place that will buy them?
Or are they a complete waste of gold if you don't want/need/plan on using them yourself?

[fracs]

Originally posted by Wandering Mania:

Originally posted by fracs:

Even in Skyrim you need a perk in Speechcraft tree if you want to sell any item to the trader. Not sure about ESO though.

Can they be sold anywhere?

Not in vanilla game. Check the mods on Nexus though may there will be something.

[Wandering Mania]

Originally posted by fracs:

Not in vanilla game. Check the mods on Nexus though may there will be something.

Well a quick search done, and no results. So they are completely worthless, no matter what their 'perceived monetary value' says in game.

Because as the old quote goes:
"Everything is worth what it's purchaser with pay for it." ~ Publilius Syrus

And if no shop, or NPC in Daggerfall, or the entire Iliac Bay will buy them; They are worthless to those who don't plan on using them personally.


Anyway... Thanks for answering that series of questions.
It's no wonder there is very little information about them out there; As in this early version of TES, they are a pretty 'bare bones mechanic'; And not really worth even paying attention to; As my 'Bow Singer' custom archer/mage has maxed her stats without any 'bound soul' enchantment.

Edit: A picture as proof:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3074257313

[Zsrai]

It's because you can buy them from vendors, that's why they have a gold value.

[Wandering Mania]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

It's because you can buy them from vendors, that's why they have a gold value.

Yeah, well. Potions have a gold value as well, but you can't buy or sell them. Making them completely worthless to any class with a good restoration/mysticism/illusion/thaumaturgy skill (depending on whatever potion you can find/make from whatever skill it depends on).

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Wandering Mania:

Originally posted by Zsrai:

It's because you can buy them from vendors, that's why they have a gold value.

Yeah, well. Potions have a gold value as well, but you can't buy or sell them. Making them completely worthless to any class with a good restoration/mysticism/illusion/thaumaturgy skill (depending on whatever potion you can find/make from whatever skill it depends on).

You can literally buy them from (most) Temples and the Dark Brotherhood.

[Wandering Mania]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

You can literally buy them from (most) Temples and the Dark Brotherhood.

And selling them? Where can I do that?
What's that you say? I can't? So they are worthless.

Example:
It's like buying a freakin' NFT. You bought one great! Now who the frak is gonna wanna buy it from you? No one! That's who. It's a waste of money.
End example.

And we got mods to update the graphics, the controls, the engine itself, and so on; But not a single one that makes potions/potion recipes, soul gems, and other 'money pits' sellable.
Making a good portion of the dungeon loot, worthless.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Wandering Mania:

Originally posted by Zsrai:

You can literally buy them from (most) Temples and the Dark Brotherhood.

And selling them? Where can I do that?
What's that you say? I can't? So they are worthless.

Example:
It's like buying a freakin' NFT. You bought one great! Now who the frak is gonna wanna buy it from you? No one! That's who. It's a waste of money.
End example.

And we got mods to update the graphics, the controls, the engine itself, and so on; But not a single one that makes potions/potion recipes, soul gems, and other 'money pits' sellable.
Making a good portion of the dungeon loot, worthless.

Just because you can't sell them doesn't mean they are worthless. Maybe you could, you know, USE them? I've never even found that many potions in the first place, so I dunno where you are getting "a good portion of the dungeon loot" from.

Stop moving the goalposts and stop arguing in bad faith.

[Wandering Mania]

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Just because you can't sell them doesn't mean they are worthless. Maybe you could, you know, USE them?

If I needed to I would. But if/when I don't, what then? I let them clutter up my inventory? Because I can't sell them, thus worthless. As I never need them. Restoration for healing, HP/poison/disease/fatigue, and simple resting for mana.

Originally posted by Zsrai:

I've never even found that many potions in the first place, so I dunno where you are getting "a good portion of the dungeon loot" from.

Recipes, potions, both which I seem to find a lot more than 'normal', but only because they are worthless to me.

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Stop moving the goalposts and stop arguing in bad faith.

If anything, it's you who is doing that.

[lonetrav]

I agree that it might be nice to be able to sell potions. But it's not a big deal or a major issue of the game design, in my opinion. And economy has never been a strength of any TES game. Sooner or later, you'll likely to have more money than you can ever spend, and loot no merchant can afford to buy at its proper value.
Well, perhaps someone picks up the idea and creates a mod adding potions to the list of stuff a merchant wants to buy, in DFU, for example (if this is possible at all).

All TES games support very different gamestyles. This includes offering several options to do the same things in very different ways. Some players use potions, others spells or scrolls ... To say, for example, that healing potions are worthless because you yourself use healing spells means such potions may be worthless for you indeed, but not for many other players who can't or don't use healing spells.
By the way: You can't sell spells either. Does this mean they are worthless, too? And can you sell scrolls? I never thought about this until now.

[Wandering Mania]

Originally posted by lonetrav:

I agree that it might be nice to be able to sell potions. But it's not a big deal or a major issue of the game design, in my opinion. And economy has never been a strength of any TES game. Sooner or later, you'll likely to have more money than you can ever spend,

That 'Bow Singer' now has about four 5,000,000 gold value 'I.O.U. tickets' in her wagon because of the complete clearing of dungeons that I do.

Originally posted by lonetrav:

and loot no merchant can afford to buy at its proper value.

Well one good thing about Daggerfall is that every merchant has infinite gold by default. Why the more recent games got rid of that, I'll never know.

Originally posted by lonetrav:

Well, perhaps someone picks up the idea and creates a mod adding potions to the list of stuff a merchant wants to buy, in DFU, for example (if this is possible at all).

Maybe. It'd be better than having unsellable 'inventory fillers'.

Originally posted by lonetrav:

All TES games support very different gamestyles. This includes offering several options to do the same things in very different ways. Some players use potions, others spells or scrolls ... To say, for example, that healing potions are worthless because you yourself use healing spells means such potions may be worthless for you indeed, but not for many other players who can't or don't use healing spells.

True, and that's exactly what that other dude couldn't seem to accept.

Originally posted by lonetrav:

By the way: You can't sell spells either.

How would you even do that? Tear the page out of your spell book?

Originally posted by lonetrav:

Does this mean they are worthless, too?

Obviously not. But they are not technically listed with a monetary value. Yes, you have to pay to scribe/create/learn one. But after that, there is no value listed on it in your spell book.

Originally posted by lonetrav:

And can you sell scrolls? I never thought about this until now.

You've seen spell scrolls in game? I've not seen a single one yet. Leading me to believe that they don't exist.

[Zsrai]

Originally posted by Wandering Mania:

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Just because you can't sell them doesn't mean they are worthless. Maybe you could, you know, USE them?

If I needed to I would. But if/when I don't, what then? I let them clutter up my inventory? Because I can't sell them, thus worthless. As I never need them. Restoration for healing, HP/poison/disease/fatigue, and simple resting for mana.

Still not worthless, you just don't find a use for them. Entirely different things.

Originally posted by Wandering Mania:

Originally posted by Zsrai:

I've never even found that many potions in the first place, so I dunno where you are getting "a good portion of the dungeon loot" from.

Recipes, potions, both which I seem to find a lot more than 'normal', but only because they are worthless to me.

You can sell recipes and ingredients. Not really worthless, but you could also just not pick them up at all if it bothers you so much.

Originally posted by Wandering Mania:

Originally posted by Zsrai:

Stop moving the goalposts and stop arguing in bad faith.

If anything, it's you who is doing that.

Oh, so you don't know what those words mean. Gotcha.