Playing on DOSBox is far superior to playing the Unity Port

[QUAKETALLICA]

Why, you ask?

I don't know how they managed to upscale the crap out of the textures and sprites, though I imagine it's a combination of neural network algorithms and original sprite work. Either way though, it just looks weird.

Having 1080p resolution where you're used to smoother animations, but then it's like 3 frames of a sword moving just feels jarring, like watching a slideshow. Sprites of a dead rat, for e.g. just look awkward and excessively cartoony when viewed in such high resolution. But for the original 320x200 resolution the game was intended for, the original graphics look good.

Like other 2.5D engine games of the 90s, it feels immersive like you're in a virtual 3D world. No, the original game is NOT supposed to look super-pixelated unless you're standing right next to everything. Most of the "pixelation" people associate with old games has less to do with how they originally looked and more to do with viewing low resolution images on a modern high resolution display.

In the case of DOSBox, I have no idea why, but it seems every DOS game that you buy digitally these days comes with a default setting of scaler = normal 2x. That means it just takes every pixel and doubles it exactly as is, leaving a much blockier, more pixelated look. You can try other upscalers if you like but even upscaled it will still only be something like 640x400 but the original artwork will look messed up. Most DOS games just look best in their true original form, i.e. scaler = none. This setting can be adjusted in the config file for DOSBox you can find in the game directory. I typically also set aspect = false if it is set to true. (Aspect = true means you will get black bars/letterboxing but a corrected aspect ratio. Aspect = false means the black bars are much smaller and it feels more like fullscreen).

The second thing you can do is adjust the audio through the sound setup .exe. Again this is true for most DOS games in DOSBox. First, you need to download and install VirtualMidiSynth. Then, find a soundfont on the internet that you like, for e.g. the famous Roland SC-55 sound card was an industry leader in the 90s, and you can download a soundfont that sounds pretty close to what you would have heard then. Some others were the Gravis Ultrasound, or the lower end OPL/Adlib (DOSBox's default midi is an emulated OPL-3 chip I believe). Personally, my favorite soundfont is the Arachno Soundfont, which is more modern and has high-quality instruments.

So yeah, I tried Unity Daggerfall, and look I've got nothing against it. It's a lot of impressive work people did for free for a game so few still care for. I commend the effort. But I still feel DOSBox is the best way to play the game. It makes the world feel more like a world and less like everything is super cartoony and blocky polygons.

[fracs]

Unity fixed many bugs/broken skills which where never fixed in the original version.

Retro Mode is a feature in Daggerfall Unity where camera renders to a 320×200 or 640×400 resolution target before scaling output into your display area. The feature also comes with postprocess settings for palettization or posterization to crush palette down to fewer colours with neat side-effects like colour banding from nearby light sources.

From 0.13.3, Retro Mode is now in the Game Effects UI. You can access these settings from drop-down arrow at top-left of screen when game is on pause menu.

In addition to previous settings for retro mode and postprocess, you now have the option to adjust render scale into 4:3 or 16:10. Enabling either of these settings will scale output to selected aspect ratio inside your actual screen area. If you have a wider screen, e.g. 16:9, then vertical pillarbox bars are added.

[QUAKETALLICA]

Originally posted by fracs:

Unity fixed many bugs/broken skills which where never fixed in the original version.

Retro Mode is a feature in Daggerfall Unity where camera renders to a 320×200 or 640×400 resolution target before scaling output into your display area. The feature also comes with postprocess settings for palettization or posterization to crush palette down to fewer colours with neat side-effects like colour banding from nearby light sources.

From 0.13.3, Retro Mode is now in the Game Effects UI. You can access these settings from drop-down arrow at top-left of screen when game is on pause menu.

In addition to previous settings for retro mode and postprocess, you now have the option to adjust render scale into 4:3 or 16:10. Enabling either of these settings will scale output to selected aspect ratio inside your actual screen area. If you have a wider screen, e.g. 16:9, then vertical pillarbox bars are added.

Yeah I know all of that. I'm familiar with palette mode, and while it has its uses, it's still not a true substitute for the real thing. I'm sorry, but retro =/= original experience. Only DOSBox can provide that.

[Rastrelly]

DOSBox still uses untrue to original DOS upscaling, input processing and rendering. If you want true experience, you have to run the game on Pentium I tops, with a 14' or 15' 4:3 CRT monitor and your PC must produce very specific HDD and fan noise. Otherwise your "superior experience" is a placebo.

[NiX]

Yes, if you hate your life and want to deal with ancient controls.

I played OG, on an actual windows 98 PC and had a blast, but after playing unity I just can't go back. Unity adds so many enhancements and fixes some of the stupid design choices like having to wait days to repair your gear, that might be realistic but from gameplay perspective its annoying.

Not to mention mods...

I'm not saying DOS or dosbox version is bad, I'm just saying that its defo not better than unity.

[lonetrav]

Originally posted by NiX:

Yes, if you hate your life and want to deal with ancient controls. ...

It's a matter of personal preferences. I myself prefer the "ancient controls" of classic DF. Having tried a lot of DFU configurations, I have eventually found a way to play DFU in a way which is close to classic DF and acceptable for me, but it still doesn't feel quite right (for me).

@quaketallica: Thanks for the tipp to set scaler=none - I would never have tried it myself. I think DFU looks better than classic DF (another personal thing), but classic DF plays in DOSBox a lot like the old 320x240 DOS game with scaler=none (and output=ddraw), and it's not (much) pixellated.
@rastrelli: Of course you're right (and I still have a 15" 4:3 monitor). Nevertheless, playing classic DF on a modern 16:9 or 16:10 monitor can come close to the old feeling (placebo or no). Except that no digital monitor can provide the visuals of an old analogue monitor.

[QUAKETALLICA]

Originally posted by lonetrav:

Originally posted by NiX:

Yes, if you hate your life and want to deal with ancient controls. ...

It's a matter of personal preferences. I myself prefer the "ancient controls" of classic DF. Having tried a lot of DFU configurations, I have eventually found a way to play DFU in a way which is close to classic DF and acceptable for me, but it still doesn't feel quite right (for me).

@quaketallica: Thanks for the tipp to set scaler=none - I would never have tried it myself. I think DFU looks better than classic DF (another personal thing), but classic DF plays in DOSBox a lot like the old 320x240 DOS game with scaler=none (and output=ddraw), and it's not (much) pixellated.
@rastrelli: Of course you're right (and I still have a 15" 4:3 monitor). Nevertheless, playing classic DF on a modern 16:9 or 16:10 monitor can come close to the old feeling (placebo or no). Except that no digital monitor can provide the visuals of an old analogue monitor.

I forgot to mention, another thing you can do is mess around with different output modes till you find one you like. I find that output = overlay is sometimes nice, when it works that is.

[QUAKETALLICA]

Originally posted by NiX:

Yes, if you hate your life and want to deal with ancient controls.

I played OG, on an actual windows 98 PC and had a blast, but after playing unity I just can't go back. Unity adds so many enhancements and fixes some of the stupid design choices like having to wait days to repair your gear, that might be realistic but from gameplay perspective its annoying.

Not to mention mods...

I'm not saying DOS or dosbox version is bad, I'm just saying that its defo not better than unity.

The controls really aren't hard to follow. I just read the tutorial where they tell you exactly how to do what and it was pretty straightforward to follow.

[Ralzar]

Originally posted by QUAKETALLICA:

I don't know how they managed to upscale the crap out of the textures and sprites, though I imagine it's a combination of neural network algorithms and original sprite work. Either way though, it just looks weird.

I am not sure what you are talking about here. DFU just extracts the sprites from the original game. Maybe you are referring to people using mods like DREAM, as that HD upscaled all the textures using a mix of work from artists doing anything from hand drawing to AI upscaling?
Edit: Or you might just have set your filters in the DFU settings to max, that makes the sprites super blurry.

Originally posted by NiX:

Yes, if you hate your life and want to deal with ancient controls.

You could have pretty close to the exact same controls in OG Daggerfall as you can in DFU. Back in late 90s when I played it, I was already playing this with controls close to what DFU comes pre-configured with.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2800762480

[Aftonstjarna]

You know you can make the graphics of the unity port look just like vanilla right?
The upscaling is entirely optional.

[The Dude]

Daggerfall Unity is an entirely different game built on the same content as Daggerfall and it's time people admit it. Character builds that 100% clear the opening dungeon in DF die to the first imp in DFU.

The "bugfixes" quite frankly are nothing but modifications that are detrimental to established methods of play. So even if it is fun to ride your horse-drawn carriage on the rooftops of cities, Daggerfall Unity fans need to dial back how wonderful it is because pick-pocketing rats and bats is NOT a bug nor is the magica absorption trait.

[lonetrav]

Originally posted by The Dude:

... Character builds that 100% clear the opening dungeon in DF die to the first imp in DFU. ...

Please give an example!
To get killed by the first imp may have thousands of reasons, among them wrong weapon material or player mistakes, totally unrelated with the character build.

[HazakTheMad]

Dying to the imp is kinda random, as it has always been a roll of the dice whether you keep missing or get hit for that matter.

[lonetrav]

Originally posted by HazakTheMad:

Dying to the imp is kinda random, as it has always been a roll of the dice whether you keep missing or get hit for that matter.

This may be true, if you just keep attacking the imp mindlessly until either the imp or your character dies.
But there are better ways to fight against the imp: At first you need a weapon (or spell) capable of hurting the imp. If you can't hurt it, you better avoid it (survival technique #1 :-)). If all you have in the beginning is an iron weapon, then you better walk past the room he's in - you may come back when you have a better weapon.
With a suitable weapon or spell you attack it, always watching your health. If it gets low, you run away (survival technique #2), until you find an opportunity to heal. Depending on how you judge your chances, you can then try again (and run away again if necessary), or you give up, at least for the time being (you may always come back when you're stronger or better equipped).
If you see no chance to win, there is nothing wrong with exiting the starter dungeon without having defeated the imp (you can even return to the dungeon when you feel strong enough - the imp is waiting for you).
Nothing random there (although it's true that the result of an individual attack is influenced by a roll of the dice).

[The Dude]

ITT: People that don't take the ebony dagger, people that don't take magic absorption, and people that don't read development logs.

They probably hate looting the rusty ogre lodge as well. Good thing DFU has that covered.

🤡

[tiny turtle]

unity lets me play orcs and use controller.