Money, Patreon, etc.

[tonio]

I'm only in the beta because I put enough money into Patreon to be eligible. The slow updates had long since had me stop paying Patreon. Right now, the only incentive to subscribe is that your fees get converted into in-game currency so that, in exchange for effectively over $100 you can access a new character who is little different from the existing characters and then slowly slowly grind more experiments.

I put it to the developers that this is not a recipe for success.

And the fact that almost no-one seems to be "using" the people in bondage suggests interest is dropping off overall.

I get you want more money, but I can buy a LOT of more interesting stuff for however much it is, and in the meantime the "game" is running slower and has more graphical glitches than ever.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but having more than one male model or saving customization settings for male models might be nice... Gay sex? A woman with less than insanely large breasts? A woman who looks more than 25 years old?

Or perhaps a hint of the promised gameplay?

I dunno, just thinking out loud.

Also, you do know alien sex is now possible in the club

[F4$hi0n$h0w]

What do you mean this is not recipe for success? It might not be a recipe for a good or popular game but this guy is making 50 000$ a month for like 7th year in a row without actually fulfilling any promise he made. In fact he already killed one project for which he was gathering money. Seems like a pretty comfortable/successful life if you ask me.

[Reinyan]

The thing that gets me is that I had been under the impression there's be an actual campaign or other such game play at some point, but all this time later and the're still no hint of it. Currently, it's just another VR sex simulator, which I just don't understand why people are excited about. They're a dime a dozen.

[V Knives]

Just give me the Galatea cunny or a patch to put her in the game.
Slimmer male characters would be nice too.

[MexDrakus]

Originally posted by Reinyan:

The thing that gets me is that I had been under the impression there's be an actual campaign or other such game play at some point, but all this time later and the're still no hint of it. Currently, it's just another VR sex simulator, which I just don't understand why people are excited about. They're a dime a dozen.

No VR since the older builds. It is supposedly coming out "soon" in the next couple updates but the demo is a tiny shell what it is currently. Campaign is not even mentioned for a long while now...

[iHaveZeroAim]

Game has always and will continue to be a cash grab. They're trying to milk it as much as possible and experiment with what they can get away with before pulling the plug. Campaign is essentially abandoned for this iteration. This version of the game will be killed off (like its predecessors) and the next version will promise to have a "campaign" of whatever flavor the patrons want the most with all the monetization currently in, and more. They're free to prove me wrong, I certainly wouldn't mind.

Note that I would like to be transparent (more than the devs at least) and say I don't have concrete evidence, BUT, considering this ♥♥♥♥ HAS happened already (twice?), the fact they really don't bother with communicating (they don't read steam discussions because they can't "moderate" it) and the aggressive changes towards money miking systems doesn't instill any faith.

And as ShmegehAika puts it, sex sells and this is unfortunately a good recipe whether we like it or not. The porn industry and myriad of jank hentai games on steam being churned out supports this. I mean, we all got baited.

[robcram]

I'm an advocate for this game and can't stand the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this game receives. The dude might be pulling in 50K per month, but do you have any idea who is on the payroll? 50K per month doesn't last long if there are several staff who need paying and overheads, and if it is just one or a few people then expect development to be slow. At least the game IS being updated on a regular basis, unlike many games that have become abandonware. In addition, the UEVR mod works well for the Harem mode.

I pledged ~£30 - Cleric and have received all characters so far without the need for paying any more. I also put in loads of hours in this levelling-up JUZI, Celia, Dr Anya and Elizabeth. Yeh I wish things would move quicker, but I got other games I can be playing in the interim. People who toss the "cash-grab" label on this know very little about game development when it's just a few people. Obviously, they can do better and get the game fully done within a year on their own.

[F4$hi0n$h0w]

Originally posted by robcram:

I'm an advocate for this game and can't stand the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this game receives. The dude might be pulling in 50K per month, but do you have any idea who is on the payroll? 50K per month doesn't last long if there are several staff who need paying and overheads, and if it is just one or a few people then expect development to be slow. At least the game IS being updated on a regular basis, unlike many games that have become abandonware. In addition, the UEVR mod works well for the Harem mode.

I pledged ~£30 - Cleric and have received all characters so far without the need for paying any more. I also put in loads of hours in this levelling-up JUZI, Celia, Dr Anya and Elizabeth. Yeh I wish things would move quicker, but I got other games I can be playing in the interim. People who toss the "cash-grab" label on this know very little about game development when it's just a few people. Obviously, they can do better and get the game fully done within a year on their own.

The game is advertised as a "roguelike strategy game featuring squad tactics and deck building". There is nothing of those "genres" or "mechanics" as of now in the game. It's been 3 years since they moved from the "galery demo" to beta. Helius been "working" on the game for nearly 8 years now which would be around 5 mln $ considering their Patreon site being in top 5 adult games and in top 50 overall project on Patreon with around 14k members and estimated earnings per month $32K - $91K . Subverse was founded for 1,6 mln £ with cutscenes, voice acting and actual story with combat misions. While I agree on UEVR working, it is not what was promised, it's 3rd party solution. But don't worry he is hard working on adding denuvo for last 15 months. Like imagine being fixated on adding denuvo on your memory leaking, core flooding game before actually putting any kind of gameplay in it.

[Reinyan]

I have little hope of Helius actually implementing all the promised features after all this time, especially after what happened on the Discord a while back with the community staff. Helius seems to be the type of person that wants to work on his projects his way and won't hear anything otherwise, which is a personality type that almost guarantees things never get completed in the end even if work continues being done.

[Randorian]

For me, personally, I would be willing to pay for an up-to-date Gallery with the latest features and creatures, and I would also pay for creature DLCs as well.

The current model is too much of a grind fest, and I find a lot more joy in Wild Life's current Sandbox than all of Fallen Doll combined.

[Smokey]

Originally posted by robcram:

I'm an advocate for this game and can't stand the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this game receives. The dude might be pulling in 50K per month, but do you have any idea who is on the payroll? 50K per month doesn't last long if there are several staff who need paying and overheads, and if it is just one or a few people then expect development to be slow. At least the game IS being updated on a regular basis, unlike many games that have become abandonware. In addition, the UEVR mod works well for the Harem mode.

I pledged ~£30 - Cleric and have received all characters so far without the need for paying any more. I also put in loads of hours in this levelling-up JUZI, Celia, Dr Anya and Elizabeth. Yeh I wish things would move quicker, but I got other games I can be playing in the interim. People who toss the "cash-grab" label on this know very little about game development when it's just a few people. Obviously, they can do better and get the game fully done within a year on their own.

The only meaningful update this "game" has gotten lately is reducing the idle slots, like really? I recognize your name as a youtuber. I think you have a responsibility to call this out, not be an apologist. At least other abandonware on here still had a semblance of what they were, 8 years and this doesn't even qualify as a alpha yet with no sign at alllll of the main body of the gameplay in sight. Even in status updates, there is no sign of the "squad strategy" at all. We'll be playing Elder Scroills 6 before this resembles anything like a completed game.

[robcram]

There are already loads of Youtube people calling this game out. The thing is, I am currently enjoying playing it in its current form. I agree it has take an age to get this far, and probably another 8 years until the combat and VR is put in the game, but it's still making progress,

In addition, the next update will finally reduce the grindy nature by allowing dual ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ characters contribute to the research pass progress. That in itself is quite a remarkable change of tack.

[iHaveZeroAim]

Originally posted by robcram:

I'm an advocate for this game and can't stand the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this game receives. The dude might be pulling in 50K per month, but do you have any idea who is on the payroll? 50K per month doesn't last long if there are several staff who need paying and overheads, and if it is just one or a few people then expect development to be slow. At least the game IS being updated on a regular basis, unlike many games that have become abandonware. In addition, the UEVR mod works well for the Harem mode.

I pledged ~£30 - Cleric and have received all characters so far without the need for paying any more. I also put in loads of hours in this levelling-up JUZI, Celia, Dr Anya and Elizabeth. Yeh I wish things would move quicker, but I got other games I can be playing in the interim. People who toss the "cash-grab" label on this know very little about game development when it's just a few people. Obviously, they can do better and get the game fully done within a year on their own.

TL;DR A response to Robcram clarifying the reasons behind the 'cash-grab' label. For everyone else, it's just a rant/justification for rant lol.

There will probably be points of contention due to not enough information on my part, misinterpretation due to lack of information on the reader's part and general disagreement with my views. But I'm not interested enough to spend more than the few minutes I already have to further explain. If you manage to find something wrong then so be it, I am wrong. You can have the final say but just don't expect a reply.

Lmao, either you also don't know much about indie game dev or just completely missed my points. It's not a matter of speed, it's a matter of of direction. Yes, there's updates, but they've been primarily for a more aggressive monetization that not everyone is on board with ESPECIALLY when considering previous promises that have been ignored or delayed. No where have I stated businesses aren't allowed to make money, but when the customers have already put in money for previously agreed upon terms that have not been followed up on? Yea, that's scam territory.

On the topic of payroll, I've never viewed the numbers to be accurate, the finances are entirely guesswork AFAIK. We don't know if income is enough or not, how many paid developers are on the team and how much work is being done. Server costs probably take up a lot which is probably why they need a system for constant cash flow. That makes sense, but why aren't we told? And, specifically why such an awful system of battlepasses. Grinding isn't for everyone but that's a matter of preference. What is objectively a problem is now needing anti cheat in order to enforce it. Seeing as how you are a reviewer of games, I'm sure you understand the importance of differentiating between quality of the game and personal feelings on the game.

So now we have performance updates that have been pushed to fix problems from engine updates, anti cheats and the major changes to physics and lighting. Wonderful. Except it was working before. "We will have VR in 8 years", except it was working before. A gallery mode? And so on and so forth. Just because a game gets updates, doesn't mean it won't be abandoned. Like I said, this is an iterative process where once they work out what they can get away with, they don't have to keep this version running. Like it predecessors, we can very easily imagine ourselves with Fallen Doll 2.0. The same with modern call of duty. I'm sure you understand the word and promises of a game developer, what it means to break or uphold them and significance of consistency (or lack thereof).

Changes are necessary absolutely, but do we not get a say in the process? That's part of the reason for alpha early acess/patreon. That's the reason for the criticism, it's to voice our opinions. This is the pattern that isn't working, where changes that weren't asked for get pushed and updates to fix issues arising from those changes both of which take resources from development (a problem if you are on the side of them not making enough money), all the while we are left in the dark. Understand that this pattern isn't made up, it HAS happened before and the direction being taken NOW is in a similar trajectory. No one is talking about guesswork numbers to patreon income or running costs of development. We are talking about what has happened, and what is happening. I'm sure you understand the importance of transparency between business and customers.

You are free to enjoy whatever it is you like, more power to you. But it doesn't give you the right to invalidate criticism of the game in the same way the developers are dismissing rightful complaints. That's counter productive to you as a consumer regardless on what side you take. Advocate for the game all you want, but understand it's a business at the end of the day and absolving them from accountability means that one day, you too will ask "how many more years?" and the answer will be "just a few more don't worry". Just because we as consumers can't make the product doesn't mean we aren't allowed to criticize it. That's the same as the average person not knowing how to farm, logistically handle cargo and run a supermarket and therefore not allowed to complain about the prices. I know game development is hard. Most people know that. I'm sure that as a game reviewer, that you understand the importance of criticism and the rights and responsibilities of consumers.

Like I said, I'm happy to be proven wrong by the developers. But they won't know if they're right or wrong if we don't tell them.

[Pr0fessor]

Its completely chinese. They have been working on this game for over 10 years.
They are just milking the subscribers and releasing content just in time so the playerbase doesn't get upset. Check out the patreaon page they make loads of cash from patrons, they have zero incentive to release a game any time soon.

This milking has been going on for over a decade.

[Pr0fessor]

Originally posted by robcram:

I'm an advocate for this game and can't stand the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ this game receives. The dude might be pulling in 50K per month, but do you have any idea who is on the payroll? 50K per month doesn't last long if there are several staff who need paying and overheads, and if it is just one or a few people then expect development to be slow. At least the game IS being updated on a regular basis, unlike many games that have become abandonware. In addition, the UEVR mod works well for the Harem mode.

They are Chinese developers. One employee costs between $1000 and maximum $2000 dollars a month and then I am being generous. Its very easy to hire 3D artists in China full time for $700 a month. That being said. With 50K a month they can hire atleast 10 tot 30 people and I am being generous again.

They are releasing bear minimum and are maximum milking the patrons. I am not saying this game is bad or no fun. For the $25 I spend this game is a good experience but in the large picture, these developers are scammers.

Remember that the early iterations was almost a complete game then they decided to complete trash everything they build and start over. Then they did the same thing again going from unreal 4 to unreal 5. That Piano level has been overhauld so many freaking times, why?

Introducing play cards and gambling mechanics? Why?

Its a fun game but the developers are scamming, freeloading money grubbing reptiles.

Go download version 4.9 and see for yourselves what I am talking about (as a patron you have right to earlier releases):

https://lewdzone.com/game/fallen-doll-operation-lovecraft/

The orginal game (which they completely abannoned and trashed) was called Fallen Doll.
Check it out here: https://lewdzone.com/game/fallen-doll/

That was almost a complete game. If you cant see these developers are cheesing every chance they get then I do not know what to tell you.