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Very enjoyable Skins tough
I would go with Etrian 3 , since this Game is one of the best DRPGs. But thanks for increasing my Wishlist, Summer Steam Discount when?
If forced to pick, I'd go with EO3. I think the multiclassing aspect gives it a bit more replayability.
So as said before, Etrian Odyssey 3 seems a more safe bet. It's already masterpiece anyway. Wait for big sale on Undernauts some other day instead, the price is already high.
Other than experiencing what the EO series feel like - I would certainly go for Undernauts. Experience in general makes considerably better paced crawlers with more balance, better drop systems, better cross classing, better postgame... better pretty much everything.
The experience games are always same'ish and lack heavy experimentation but there are always a few extra mechanics to keep things fun. As a huge bonus is a class system tempered for over a decade to bring an incredibly well balanced game which gives you fair challenge without resorting to Etrian's usual 'pick this or you get one turn party wipe' type of content.
The experience inc games are also considerably better at building up the grim atmosphere the dungeon crawlers are known for.
EO series are on the other hand very clunky 'beginner's attempt at dungeon crawler' with each game having huge downsides while not really having any noteworthy upsides... aside of maybe quite solid length. ~50-70 hours is usual 100% time.
The map system is a pain in the ass on PC compared to how fun it was to draw on DS. There is a setting to autodraw walls+ground, so it's not as bad as it sounds however.
EO 1 has essentially 0 choice in what you do at all. You either play the exact combo of classes and EXACT LEVELS OF EXACT SAME SKILLS(YEAH, EXACT LEVELS... protector has one skill where if you level it too much- you screwed up and need to 'reset and try again' if you want to 100% the game) everyone tells you to level or you will suffer. 3 out of 5 character slots are literally mandatory if you want to 100% the game. Not even overgrinding will help at all. You have those 3 or go home. The other slots only really have semblance of choice too. You will very likely stick to the very same party that 90% of other people do.
Worst drop rate shenanigans of the series. 3 postgame boss farm will likely take up to ~30-40% duration of the entire game if you plan to get their rare drops.
Only 1 item drop can happen at a time. So you need to refight majority of HP sponge bosses twice.
Yeah, you will literally spend ~40-45 hours to 99% complete the game... and then spend another ~30 hours farming those 3 drops if you are unlucky.
Fights are very slow in this one - you can't die because you are essentially permanently immortal due to Medic skill... but killing postgame bosses is pretty much hitting an ¬10 minutes worth of HP sponge. Assuming you know the pattern of it - it can't fight back. And if you don't - you are dead instantly, no inbetween.
EO 2 is the one with the least challenge if you use correct setup. Gunner + Dark Hunter force moves remove pretty much 99% of boss challenge in the game. add Hexer's damage to those and you can kill everything
By far best drop system out of Etrian series. Scavenger passives give huge flat drop chance boost and instead of getting one ultra rare drop the game simply wants you to have ¬5 levels of scavenge in your party to comfortably farm big amounts of 'regular drops' and you only ever need to fight each boss once unless you get super unlucky.
Helps that there is Scavenge on the best class in the game - Hexer.
The 'not correct setup' is 'possible' now but is drastically more RNG and heavily relies on using consumables on harder content to make up for being not optimal.
Generally least time consuming of them three due to that.
Minibosses are no longer main exp source. Instead the core bosses are. Makes farming ultra fast so getting to max level is a matter of ~1-2 hours. Hexer can solo carry all of the bosses if you want to pinpoint level someone.
EO 3 actually starts resembling a real game. You can make some choices already, there is even a barebones subclass system there.
Doesn't really force you into anything aside of maybe Hoplite who is essentially mandatory.. Even healer is technically replaceable by items, but it's not optimal obviously.
The disastrous drop rate of EO1 is back BUT you get tools to 100% get the drops. Still much more annoying than the EO2 system but at least tolerable.
EO 3 allows you to overgrind and overstat as hell compared to previous games where you usually reached ~95% potential of the character halfway into postgame and it didn't make much sense to use retire system in end game since there wasn't enough content to make it worthwhile.
In this one you have insane potential - want to get lvl 99 characters with all stats 99? Go ahead. But you will likely 100% the game by ~level 60 despite game allowing you to reach 99 this time.
This makes it by far shortest game of the 3 despite having much more potential to develop your chars.
The top skills are unlocked quite early with very few useless pre requisites(unless we count buccaneer pincushion) into the game however so can be boring since you won't be really looking forward to any new moves.
Has a somewhat annoying 'ending' system. There are 3 endings - 2 'dead ends' which unlock extra classes, one of which is godly and one of which is garbage.
Not as bad as it sounds since you can NG+ rush it quite fast.
TLDR:
If you have to choose 1 and didn't play games from either of the companies - start with Undernauts. After which you will know if Experience inc games are your cup of tea or not.
EO is harder to summarize and you can easily like one and not the other since it always experimented with game systems and often made drastic changes, but this also resulted in each game having huge downsides in some aspects.
I'd still recommend EO3 over it though.
Do you have any other dungeon crawlers you'd recommend? I'm a huge fan of the genre, but the quality is so hit and miss and it's hard to figure out until you're 10+ hours deep and have actually unlocked most of the mechanics. Especially if you don't like spoilers.
I'm mostly looking for something that rewards exploration and has that risk/reward feeling when heading out. I've played games before where finding a secret passage rewards you with an invisible forced encounter with a postgame enemy that kills you, costing hours of progress. Or games where the treasures in the dungeon are just randomized trash you can safely ignore and the only way to get stronger is just farm easy encounters until good loot drops. And then there are games where everything is so easy it doesn't matter how you build or equip your team, let alone how well you searched for secret loot.
Have you played Labyrinth of Touhou 1 or 2 before? Those are sort of my benchmark of good dungeon crawlers. How does this stack up? Anything else out there that really stands out?
Not good recommendation. Wizardry: The Five Ordeals is probably not a good dungeon crawler game for newcomers or alike. That game is mostly for old-school Wizardry fans. Etrian Odyssey or Undernauts(?) is probably better to buy first.
Not sure if you played Legend of Grimrock 1 and 2? the first one is very much a dungeon crawler, and good too, while the second one is a bit more open world. both are on steam, they are more traditional looking. My personal favourites are still the Eye of the beholder series, (at least 1 and 2)
Really not a fan of the whole 'kite enemies in a circle in real time' thing as a gameplay mechanic.
I would say my rating is approx:
Wizardry series in general(mostly for being parent of the genre, most games aged badly, certainly don't bother trying anything under wizardry 5 unless you really want to know how genre started)
If you are to try wizardry 5-8 I would say:
8 - the most modern entry and was actually one of the best games in the series even during release. Plays relatively well even now. Highly recommended.
7 - by far longest game. Maybe even too long for a wizardry game. It's a hit or miss for most people. Class changing was introduced and was a bit too overpowered.
5 and 6 - both were great games when released but playing it now I would rate it quite low in the list.
4 is hard to call traditional crawler... and 1-3 are too legacy by now.
> Elminage Gothic(best relatively modern wizardry like game)
> 2 Labyrinth games(dusk/refrain - they are IMO the best modern crawlers that tried to change up mechanics in a pretty unique way.. also keep the dark atmosphere of the crawlers)
> Experience Inc games(all of them are great but not top tier crawlers... big amount of content, dark atmosphere, risky dungeon delving, challenging postgame content, decent balance)
I would also put Wizardry Labyrinth of lost souls here. A modern crawler NOT by the devs of original wizardry and NOT as good as gothic elminage, but it's not really a bad game if you want a hardcore experience.
> Etrian series is somewhere here.. Albeit at least 1 and 2 I would rather place into last section honestly.
Around here I would probably also place Infinite Adventures - a pretty solid crawler by a fan of the genre....
Also not exactly a dungeon crawler but plays a lot like one while being a great game: Lords of Xulima.
> Random crawlers go last in no particular order. Mary Skelter series, Dungeon Travelers 2 and 2-2, Labyrinth of Zangetsu, Operencia the stolen sun.... each of those have different major flaws, often multiple... such as short length, lack of postgame challenge, lack of complexity, lack of balance, lack of danger and such... but if you are fan of the genre and have nothing to do - they are there.
This list ignores the semi action crawlers such as Grimrock as they are IMO a different genre altogether.
Hentaika above made a long but great post, however I rate Etrian Odyssey games a bit higher. Aside from that, it's not exactly same game (Labyrinth of Touhou is also not of the same style), but The Quest here on Steam is good and make sure to buy all DLCs made by Catacomber and you will have hundreds of hours fun grid-based game which looks a bit like Daggerfall and it has decent sometimes great stories.
edit: However I realise that game might not be the wished combat difficulty, because it's pretty easy unless you make very bad build. But other things especially the additional worlds by Catacomber is tough, riddles, exploration and all that stuff. It has a such good feel to make up for the lack of combat balance.