why did people want the Fall so badly?

[Yorginvik]

The game says it to your face plenty of times, game, but I still don't get why Strega and the school chairman wanted to rush the Fall? They wanted the end of the world because...?

[Endora]

The chairman was delusional, where all the hints said that all humanity would be exctint, he was thinking that he could rebuild a world where he would be the ruler. Strega, well, they just want to get rid of all humanity because of their pain.

[toughnails]

It's an anime video game, don't think too hard about it. The writers just wanted very high stakes in the last in-game month, and that was their solution.

What weirded me out the most, Ryoji just info-dumps all this stuff during the bridge scene, and literally no one questions it or has any doubts, he's the only source of this information and they just take him at his word. This shady guy they barely know wouldn't just lie and make it all up because uhhh.... Basically, it's just video game logic.

Anyhow, the sequels have very similar "evil god wants to destroy the world and turn everyone into shadows" late game subplots, and they aren't written any better, at this point it's just something you have to accept when going into a Persona game.

[mdesaleah]

Originally posted by toughnails:

It's an anime video game, don't think too hard about it. The writers just wanted very high stakes in the last in-game month, and that was their solution.

What weirded me out the most, Ryoji just info-dumps all this stuff during the bridge scene, and literally no one questions it or has any doubts, he's the only source of this information and they just take him at his word. This shady guy they barely know wouldn't just lie and make it all up because uhhh.... Basically, it's just video game logic.

Anyhow, the sequels have very similar "evil god wants to destroy the world and turn everyone into shadows" late game subplots, and they aren't written any better, at this point it's just something you have to accept when going into a Persona game.

Eh. 4 does do something similar, but at least there its explained much better why the villain would want something like that. And people as a whole preferring to accept a convenient lie over hard to find truths is a lot more realistic than everyone just apparently wishing for death.

5 is kind of similar to 4, but a little worse with its explanation since the villain there doesnt really fit that secion. So it'd probably be something like 4 > 5 > 3 for that style of plotpoint

Although Royal does help a lot for 5 in patching that aspect.

[Yorginvik]

Originally posted by Catgrin:

I had to abridge some of this, but this is the basic idea the game is trying to get across with both Ikutsuki and Strega.

Thank you very much, that makes sense. Especially how Strega and Ikutsuki's goals didn't entirely coincide and they were misinformed about stuff. Also the game's message I guess works very well with its theme about responsibility, death, and life.

[Icedfate]

it is a bit interesting how ryoji then goes on to tell everyone that they should just give up.
he does seem sincere when he talks and tells everyone about nyx and then gives the group the choice to make the decision to kill him or let him live telling them that it's impossible to win and it makes no difference to him either way but the best outcome is to just wipe their memories and let it all happen in blissful ignorance.
and nobody even gets suspicious that he might just be being manipulative.
again, i think he is soncere. it's his time with MC creating that social link that made him who he is and not just another shadow monster like he was before.

on a side note, i'm not so sure strega is actually your enemies. strega wanted to prevent SEES from killing the shadows. maybe it was out of selfishness. they didn't want to lose their powers, but if they had succeeded in preventing you from destroying the 12 shadows, then Ryoji never would have appeared and the end might not have ever happened at all

[Endora]

Originally posted by Icedfate:

it is a bit interesting how ryoji then goes on to tell everyone that they should just give up.
he does seem sincere when he talks and tells everyone about nyx and then gives the group the choice to make the decision to kill him or let him live telling them that it's impossible to win and it makes no difference to him either way but the best outcome is to just wipe their memories and let it all happen in blissful ignorance.
and nobody even gets suspicious that he might just be being manipulative.
again, i think he is soncere. it's his time with MC creating that social link that made him who he is and not just another shadow monster like he was before.

on a side note, i'm not so sure strega is actually your enemies. strega wanted to prevent SEES from killing the shadows. maybe it was out of selfishness. they didn't want to lose their powers, but if they had succeeded in preventing you from destroying the 12 shadows, then Ryoji never would have appeared and the end might not have ever happened at all

I agree, Ryoji was been manipulative, considering that he says that the end would be at january 31 but if we accept his proposal the game skips to march (way past the deadline) - wich means that someone or something - not us - had prevented the fall.

Don't give so much credit for Strega, they were manipulated too and, well, weren't the most bright braincells in the bunch. I concede that if they succeed the fall wouldn't come, but countless victims will arise each month, since noone would knew wath else they could do with those shadows.

[Endora]

Maybe... or maybe he was just stirring up our will to fight and with that the fall would come faster. Remember, he is the same entity that manipulate us for months to get his pieces again.

[NotAfan]

I'd say the game makes it pretty clear, and @Catgrin already put most of the work, but I suppose there's no harm in further explaining:

You already got the reason for Ikutsuki's/Strega's motivations: Nihilism.

Now, assuming you already completed the game: in FES's epilogue The Answer, it's further exacerbated and confirmed that humanity's collective unconscious, deep down, actually yearns for death. That's because we as humans all suffer and many of us can come to the conclusion that death would be a way out, a relief, a salvation. Remember, Persona's lore is such that the collective unconscious manifests physically and starts influencing the "real" world, that's what Personas, the dark hour, shadows, etc all are: a facet of our collective subconscious as a species. Nyx is not a separate supernatural antagonist: she was born from us. She merely represents the end and is doing what, supposedly, we subconsciously want her to do: bring the end. The protagonist at the end of the game turns themself into a great seal in order to trap Nyx away from forcefully bringing death to all life early, because as long as humans exist, the subconscious yearning for Death will persist, and Nyx will come again.

We all understand death is inevitable to everything that lives. Strega/Ikutsuki wish to bring this end EARLIER than necessary for everyone, everywhere. SEES has to grapple with the notion that not only death is inevitable, but it's now very close, and through a lot of self-growth they come to realize that even if death itself is inevitable, there is still meaning in living even if it will end someday, and thus they won't allow for it to come early, because clinging to life for as long as possible and extracting meaning out of it is the right thing to do, even if it's sometimes hard, painful and scary. The whole theme of the game is "Finding meaning in life even when you know you'll die anyway", said meaning found in the bonds you forge with people.

Now, as for the people saying "this is anime logic, don't think too much about it": I mean, come on, it's okay to not like the style and all, but at least try to honestly engage with the story being told instead of being so dismissive. The same applies to 4 and 5 btw: subconscious deities created by humans believe they know what we want/need and set about doing it, only to be defeated by the optimistic outlook of the parties involved as humans take control of their inner demons to say "No, thank you."

[NotAfan]

Originally posted by mdesaleah:

Eh. 4 does do something similar, but at least there its explained much better why the villain would want something like that. And people as a whole preferring to accept a convenient lie over hard to find truths is a lot more realistic than everyone just apparently wishing for death.

5 is kind of similar to 4, but a little worse with its explanation since the villain there doesnt really fit that secion.

Persona 3: God born from collective unconscious, representing the yearning for the relief of death, sets about bringing humanity's wish of self-destruction. Is defeated by the "power of friendship", meaning the bonds people have for each other trump humanity's darker hidden tendencies to self-destruct.

Persona 4: God born from collective unconscious, representing the yearning for sweet lies instead of cold hard truth, sets about bringing humanity's wish of self-numbing. Is defeated by the "power of friendship", meaning the bonds people have for each other trump humanity's darker hidden tendencies to self-destruct.

Persona 5: God born from collective unconscious, representing the yearning to stop thinking for yourself and letting a God do the work for you due to how exhausted you are, sets about bringing humanity's wish of self-controlling. Is defeated by the "power of friendship", meaning the bonds people have for each other trump humanity's darker hidden tendencies to self-destruct.

It's nothing if not consistent.