I really tried to like this game...

[ProjectSeph]

..but I just couldn't.

I had some hesitation in the beginning of the game, and sought counsel on these discussion boards, as to whether the game would get better (as it seemed a bit cliche at the start).

I was assured that the story got fantastically dark, and that the seemingly corny relationship between Yi and his sister was "Not all it appeared to be".

So, I pushed myself through the game - slowly, over time. And each time I played, I found myself wondering "Okay, so the great story moments have got to be just around the corner. Right?"

...wrong.

After beating the game with the true ending, I was disappointed. I genuinely just felt like Nine Sols was somewhat annoying, and quite cliche. And I feel like I kind of hung out for a story that never blossomed the way I was lead to believe it would.
The 'dark' elements of the story were a bit average compared to many games I'm used to.
And the relationship with Yi and his sister had zero 'shocking' surprises or turns. I was honestly expecting some big reveal or twist - considering the way people were hyping it up to me. So I was more than a little disappointed.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.
I'm not saying the game objectively sucked, because it didn't. But I just happened to not like it.

Thanks for reading

[Lone Emissary]

The game didn't appeal to you, it happens. Personally, I don't need every game to subvert my expectations story-wise and not everything needs to be grimdark to the max. What matters to me is the gameplay. Everything else is secondary. Parrying, boss fights and the OST is what makes it fun. The story might be predictable but it was written well enough to immerse me in the world of Yi and the cast of main characters is endearing. It seems you cared much more about the story than the gameplay which lead to your disappointment.

[LazyJoeBeard]

I was told it was a lot like hollow knight and other then that I went in blind, I did not expect it to be more of a parry based combat and while the combat its self clicked fast for me it was not what I was looking for and quit but I came back to it and am enjoying it my second go.

[leo_gear]

Not sure what you were expecting regarding Heng and Yi's backstory. I wonder what got you to the point of feeling hyped about it. When I was playing, I felt dread finding out what truly happened between them. I feel the majority of the "feels" revolved around Yi and Shuanshuan. I suppose expecting some super grim-dark outcome could soil what really happens but I don't think enough games put emphasis on a boy and a male-role model trying to help/raise them, which is what I wasn't expecting. The end was 100% expected but I didn't want to experience it which made me sad.

But all good games must come to an end. It's just unfortunate your expectations perhaps countered the resulting ending. Personally speaking, I feel a lot of consumers of media kind of sabotage their experience because they are in "critic-brain mode". Ultimately, the more media (movies, books, games, etc) consumed, the likelihood you will predict outcomes. One has to either accept this or have the discipline to just experience the media and then measure the outcomes to your expectations afterwards.

Whether you did this yourself or not, I'm unsure. Personally, I feel culture plays a part and Eastern media feels more esoteric to me with the characters and plot while Western is more predictable (i.e. cliche) if only because they often borrow from a specific pool of tropes and folklore. Yi's inspirations weren't known to me until after I looked them up when I beat the game with made the story a little more intriguing.

[Talist]

Honestly, the narrative isn't all that good. It's fine, better than average even for these kinds of games imo, but it wasn't anything that blew me away. There's plotlines that don't really go anywhere, like the whole apeman thing. The story starts with them, but then the resolution of why they're being harvested in the first place is resolved in a single line right before the final boss.

Yi also has a problem of being set up as an "Agent Scully". I do dislike when media treats "science" as if it is some doctrine or ideology, when really it's just a way of asking and answering questions. He has character development over the narrative, but that should have happened before the start of the narrative, based on the flashbacks. He literally died twice and was revived twice by the big tree thing, but only starts accepting there's more to the world after talking to ShuanShuan.

[leo_gear]

Originally posted by Talist:

Honestly, the narrative isn't all that good. It's fine, better than average even for these kinds of games imo, but it wasn't anything that blew me away. There's plotlines that don't really go anywhere, like the whole apeman thing. The story starts with them, but then the resolution of why they're being harvested in the first place is resolved in a single line right before the final boss.

The Apeman plotline didn't go anywhere? There's a bunch of nuance with regard to motivations and decisions with regards to the apemen. Overall, they aren't meant to be the focal point for the Solarians but rather a point to illustrate the callousness of the Solarians, specifically the Sols. The Apeman plotline was followed up by the bond with Shuanshuan and the quests from Shennong. Not sure what else the game would include outside of shifting player control to an apeman.

Originally posted by Talist:

Yi also has a problem of being set up as an "Agent Scully". I do dislike when media treats "science" as if it is some doctrine or ideology, when really it's just a way of asking and answering questions. He has character development over the narrative, but that should have happened before the start of the narrative, based on the flashbacks. He literally died twice and was revived twice by the big tree thing, but only starts accepting there's more to the world after talking to ShuanShuan.

Technically, Yi was first revived by the technology of Eigong. Secondly, the setting is outlined as Tao-punk so the blend of science and mysticism is to be expected. It'd be like complaining about a Steampunk setting that has fantastical versions of steam technology and saying it has too many gears.

As for Yi having character development before the start of the narrative, I believe he did. It's why he viewed the Apemen as he did, lived along side them and raised one like a son.

[Talist]

Originally posted by leo_gear:

The Apeman plotline didn't go anywhere? There's a bunch of nuance with regard to motivations and decisions with regards to the apemen. Overall, they aren't meant to be the focal point for the Solarians but rather a point to illustrate the callousness of the Solarians, specifically the Sols. The Apeman plotline was followed up by the bond with Shuanshuan and the quests from Shennong. Not sure what else the game would include outside of shifting player control to an apeman.

I mean specifically the harvest of them. You see a lot of background machinery transporting apeman torsos, but the question of why they are ultimately being harvested is one line near the end of the game. It makes it feel like the writers started with the end concept of humans being harvested by a far technologically superior species and then worked backwards to find a justification for it. This isn't really a bad way to do things, but I remember being kind of disappointed by the "final reveal".

Originally posted by leo_gear:

Technically, Yi was first revived by the technology of Eigong. Secondly, the setting is outlined as Tao-punk so the blend of science and mysticism is to be expected. It'd be like complaining about a Steampunk setting that has fantastical versions of steam technology and saying it has too many gears.

As for Yi having character development before the start of the narrative, I believe he did. It's why he viewed the Apemen as he did, lived along side them and raised one like a son.

In the flashback where he gets blown up, it's clear that the roots grow over him. So I took Yi saying "Eigong saved me" more as him being in denial that he could have been wrong about the roots, and in admiration for his mentor. It's ambiguous what Eigong actually did there.

His character development was specifically in regards to his views on "science" versus mysticism. Like at the start of the game, he's dismissive towards ShuanShuan about believing superstitions (even after he saves ShaunShaun from the harvesting thing, such as the dialog when gifting the miner's charm) even though he's lived through through said superstitions multiple times.

[Lone Emissary]

Originally posted by Talist:

but I remember being kind of disappointed by the "final reveal".

Out of all the story elements, the one that irked me the most was the lack of a strong emotional reaction by Shuanshuan once Yi confesses that he was the one that kickstarted the whole idea of the Apemen being used as livestock. Even worse, Shuanshuan admits that he already suspected it.

So the boy knows that Yi's responsible for the death of his parents, his fellow men being kept in fear and forced to offer sacrifices, and for his home planet being turned into a frozen wasteland, and all he does is shrugs it off with "you're not the same as the past Yi" platitude.

It would have been much better if Shuanshuan needed some time however short to reconcile with those facts. Ideally, his reaction would depend on how much the player bonds with him and maybe there would have been different endings based on that too.

Originally posted by Talist:

So I took Yi saying "Eigong saved me" more as him being in denial that he could have been wrong about the roots, and in admiration for his mentor. It's ambiguous what Eigong actually did there.

I understood it that way as well. I do think that Eigong aided in his recovery. One of Eigong's logs says: "Using my rhyzomatic stabilizer, the young man not only made a full recovery... ...his body also exhibited an unprecedented symbiosis between solarian cells and genetic material from the Primordial Roots."
So Yi completely dismissed Heng's role and regarded Eigong as his only savior further entrenching his belief in science above all. Those flashbacks and delayed messages must have gnawed at him when he realized how poorly he responded to his little sister's ideas and unreciprocated support. It makes their unmeant rendezvous all the more tragic.

[leo_gear]

Originally posted by Talist:

I mean specifically the harvest of them. You see a lot of background machinery transporting apeman torsos, but the question of why they are ultimately being harvested is one line near the end of the game. It makes it feel like the writers started with the end concept of humans being harvested by a far technologically superior species and then worked backwards to find a justification for it. This isn't really a bad way to do things, but I remember being kind of disappointed by the "final reveal".

I suppose I can see a lack of satisfaction in the overall outcome, but it seems less a "one line near the end of the game" and more a "several lines that were spread through the game"...maybe not as in-depth as one would prefer but it was alluded to toward the beginning that the flowers they used for the ceremony were useless and discarded but the limbs and torsos were being taken elsewhere while the heads were not disclosed what happened to them. Then later you find out they were using the brains and keeping them preserved. Then you find out later that they were using the hearts of the apemen for fine dinning (they likely used the other cuts like the rest of the torso or limbs for other dishes) and then finally discovering it was Yi's plan all along to create this scheme and he's the overseeer of the Apemen pins as he delved into the data of far off planets to discover the existence of the Apemen. This doesn't sound like a "one line near the end" thing. Sounds to me like it foreshadowed some details and then revealed some things throughout, confirming player suspicions toward the end.

Originally posted by Talist:

In the flashback where he gets blown up, it's clear that the roots grow over him. So I took Yi saying "Eigong saved me" more as him being in denial that he could have been wrong about the roots, and in admiration for his mentor. It's ambiguous what Eigong actually did there.

I was always under the assumption that the jade ring on his chest/the jade system integrated into Yi is Eigong's work. It's how he has his exceptional regeneration/ability to return after death. That seems like a very important game-mechanic explained by the story and not particularly elaborated on but you get the jist that it is an actual thing when dealing with Jiequan.

Originally posted by Talist:

His character development was specifically in regards to his views on "science" versus mysticism. Like at the start of the game, he's dismissive towards ShuanShuan about believing superstitions (even after he saves ShaunShaun from the harvesting thing, such as the dialog when gifting the miner's charm) even though he's lived through through said superstitions multiple times.

The superstitions and mysticism is moreso developed with Lear. Even though he ended up disagreeing with Lear's decision, he made a similar choice to pursue wholeness within the Tao rather than a scientific solution in the true ending. Thinking more on it, it's what separates the true ending from the other ending which is the one where he chooses a more calculated solution that may have a better short-term solution for the player but doesn't show his full character growth.

Perhaps this is what the OP was questioning, as the full character growth would have Yi siding with his sister by letting go of his ambitions and returning to nature vs conquering nature. To us humans, having the opportunity to live a much longer life seems like the obvious choice whereas the moral of the game may be telling us that constant pursuit of this is an unnatural folly. So in the reality we have naturally, Heng's message is literally the only one we have: accept mortality and cherish it while you can.

Originally posted by Lone Emissary:

Out of all the story elements, the one that irked me the most was the lack of a strong emotional reaction by Shuanshuan once Yi confesses that he was the one that kickstarted the whole idea of the Apemen being used as livestock. Even worse, Shuanshuan admits that he already suspected it.

I think that's a fair discernment. In defense of how it's portrayed in the game, children are naive regardless of how talented they are. In cases of domestic or sexual abuse, children often don't understand the complications of the situation and only perceive their emotions at the time. It's why children are easily manipulated and why they need to be protected. To Shuanshuan's defense, he made a good moral judgement regarding Yi and Kuafu.

[Seisachtheia]

I found Heng and Yi's relationship to be deeply tragic and sorrowful, while also being a representation of hope, grief, and healing.

However, I also think it's maybe a relationship that has nuance that might be hard to relate to unless you're middle aged or have had particular life experiences because the tragedy of it is all to familiar to may who have a few years and experiences under their belt while being difficult to connect to emotionally if you're a younger fan.

It's like how "call to adventure" or "coming of age" stories hit a particular way when you're 16 or 17 and feeling that adventure before you, and how they don't have the same impact decades later. You can still enjoy them and still think it's a decent story, but it's hard to connect to the 16 year old protagonist's sense of purpose yet naivety when you're older.