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As you get further in the game, you'll find more enemies that require you to make an opening by parrying. Also, I challenge you to try to occasionally not attack a target. Just wait to parry them. Some will wait quite a while so they can react to you attacking them.
Toward the end of the game, no, it's not going to be just like Sekiro, because you're going to focusing a lot more on aerial positioning and mid-air combos too.
Parrying generates Qi charges which can be converted into big damage (Full Control especially). And also cash out the damage you cause with Skull Kicks, Air Parries, and Unbounded Counters.
Talisman can also heal you if you have Transmute Onto Life.
Sekiro's posture system feels unmatched. The talismans here were... alright... but it feels like a waste to parry attacks after filling your talismans, where in Sekiro you're always dealing posture damage. You always feel like you're making progress in Sekiro, but some enemy patterns in Nine Sols can really make fights drag on.
Thats how i view nine sols, it has a bit of a style-over-substance defense and enemy attacks, but said defense still way cooler and better than the grand vast majority of sidescroller adventure games, which tend to have pretty bad combat. And when it comes to the player's attacks, that side is just straight up great
I mean, they did basically copy lots of it. Just like most games doing consecutive-deflects as of late. Whether said copy actually features most of the remarkable qualities has nothing to do with it
Have you actually played sekiro? Sekiro makes that feel like much more of a real/satisfiying thing, because enemies are actually getting their blades thrown off and theyre actually reacting to your moves, & you can actually do some actions that makes them unable to block attacks. In 9S most enemies/bosses are just doing their thing with less interactivity, kind of like on a videotape recording, they wont actually react to whether or not you deflect them, and they wont usually react to you landing hits on them. The windows just spontaneously show up as random gaps in their moveset and thats it
Everyone knows the talisman and isnt missing the point when they say the parry is just a defense form. Its just that its just not all that related to the parry : Youre almost always gonna have a good bunch of qi charges in almost any battle, it could have totally been tied to something other than the deflects. The sekiro deflection is primarily used as a mild crutch in order to create some enemies with dynamic movesets and crazy flashy combos by just trivializing the defense into an one-button thing, and thats what it gets judged by.
Apparently not, if the thread exist complaining it's not exactly like [insert another game], which is the rebuttal I made. I don't care if the mechanic is copied, partially, fully or "badly" because each game is its own collection of mechanics and challenges you have to overcome with the tools available. This isn't Burger King where you have it your way, order the mechanics you want off a menu and how they interact.
And you've forgotten what is even being argued: whether saying the game is "Sekiro-inspired" requires carbon copies of the mechanics or feedback from said mechanics or if using the "Sekiro-inspired" label is maliciously misleading. Nine Sols is it's own game with its own unique mechanics, thus the feedback from using Parry or Unbound Counter will be different from Sekiro and that's BY DESIGN. Because Nine Sols doesn't use posture bars and such. It's a metroidvania and likely designed for enthusiasts of those types of games. And for those types of games, you don't need to over-complicate the combat. K.I.S.S is a virtue.
and a big point of my post was "nine sols compensates it through other reasons" so idk why you feel the need to say that
literally nobody said its "malicious"
OP only said he thought the game missed the point of some of sekiro's qualities. thats not saying its intentionally maliciously misleading, and its not saying that its not sekiro inspired. he was just criticizing the mechanics and nothing else
you really cant say someone doesnt get what is being argued after you pull the "malicious" part out of nowhere & started repeatedly saying things i already said in my previous post
yes i said that
different is one thing, sharing particular elements is another. If thats what the devs wanted to focus on, they could have totally made several aspects of 9s more akin to what made sekiro's consecutive deflects more akin to other titles, but they just happened to want to make something else
that doesnt actually have to do with any of the elements of the deflects being discussed, they can totally be applied to games with pure-healthbar as their best qualities are a separate matter. theres many reasons why sekiro parries are much better than consecutive parry games, but the posture bar is really not one of them. in fact, you could argue the posture bar has some negative interactions with the deflect balance-wise due to how much damage can sometimes come from the same button, making things more one dimensional and still rewarding people that barely attack the boss
This take right here is actually genuinely dumb. Youre saying this specifically for a game that waters down the "metroid" side and puts most of its eggs on other baskets, notably combat
Nine Sols is *very* weak on the 'metroid' side, its a very railroaded progression with far more focus on just bosses & enemy encounters, while the exploration, secrets, nonlinearity, side collectibles, etc, are by far on the lowest ends of the genre. Movement challenges and abilities are also on the staler end. That doesnt mean the game is bad for the record, just that the devs decided to focus on other things (sheer combat, plot, etc), but justifying simpler combat because of this just makes it seem like you have almost no experience or understanding of the genre in question. Though i guess its an ongoing problem in this genre, and games as a whole, that genuinely interconnected and nonlinear (yet focused) progression like ds1, hk, la mulana, environmental station alpha, etc, is becoming rarer and rarer.
And even if it did, that doesnt mean more stuff going on in the combat is necessarily "over complicating" or negative. Nine Sols is already on the very, very upper end of metroid-like combat, both because the game is pretty good, but also because metroid-like combat is usually very bad. That doesnt mean wanting more of the combat necessarily makes it worse.
Silksong for example, a sequel to one of the most interconnected & nonlinear progressions in metroid-like history, is showing off
- alternate movesets for the needle
- very dynamic and interactive bossfights, like HK's coolest bosses, except right off the bat, backed up by some stuff like the healing change, without relying on one-click defense
- all the gimmicky tools you can choose
And i dont see how anyone could possibly call any of that a bad thing. Just like how people would enjoy a completely-hypothetical-successful-improvement for 9S. Good combat is good, and no particular action game genre needs to worry disproportionally more about "overcomplicating", theres only "well executed and badly executed"
It's not moving the goalpost, just stating my opinion clearly since I didn't do so before.
Calling something a "red flag" typically has negative connotation. Whether or not it's a malicious label or not shouldn't be the focus of your reply since I was only acknowledging IF it's malicious or misleading as a possibility.
A bunch of stuff Sekiro. Haven't gotten deep into the game so I don't have anything to say about it.
And now YOU are moving the goalpost. Now we're talking about metroid elements, story focus, etc etc. You don't have to beef up your point by going on unrelated tangents. Sure, if you want to mention something, that's fine. But you're writing whole paragraphs about not what we're talking about.
But now it's my turn to call your take pretty dumb.
If you call yourself a gamer, you understand where the line of being a gamer and a critic should lie. Comparing and contrasting game experiences is useful when discussing games and communicating with other people on if an experience is good or fun or painful or short or whatever. When you cross into critic territory and start outlining the disparity of genres as new games release and how this or that has lost sight of the original, you've lost your ability to communicate whether a game is good to play or to be avoided or bought for a discount or whatever. It's like you've completely forgotten what we even started talking about because you felt confronted about your opinion. Rather than communicate what you mean, you go on about how such and such criticism is wrong because it's not taking elements from la mulana or that the combat is the focus so it need excess complexity to make up for this or that. At that point, you're not even talking about the game as a piece of media but rather a list of metrics. It's critic brain, pure and simple.
Also, there's no reason to break up my post into such small fragments (breaking up sentences, even). Just reply to the whole point.
so yes, its completely related, its not an unrelated tangent. if the game is very soft on the metroid side then that point of yours doesnt match the game, there would be nothing wrong with adding that to 9S by your logic. Im not saying i think it *should* be done nor that its necessarily *bad* the game doesnt have then, just that your for that reasoning was totally off
you also ignored how half the post was about "hey this other game is very focused on enthusiasts of metroidvanias and yet is making the combat more elaborate, isnt that fun?? so maybe its fine for games of this genre to not keep it simple"
~"critic" means nothing in this context, anyone is allowed to say what they think about games for whatever reason
all the things i brought up are relevant exclusively because
a. they are fun to play
b. they may or may not take effort to develop and choices must be made in terms of what kinds of fun the dev wants
z. because i was trying to convey that its a weak focus on the metroid-like side of things, meaning your point about "its very focused on metroidlikes so therefore the combat should always inherently be simpler" doesnt make sense
it is you who are just failing to follow the conversation
but there are 9342 points!! what can i do!! i hate text wall forums!!11 i prefer real time chats$$!1!!
It's unrelated because we're talking about the combat, not the metroidvania elements. I brought up the metroidvania genre label because that's what it is, not a souls-like that emulates Sekiro. The point being, jumping and shooting/hitting is the primary meat of the game. You're trying to make a point that the parrying in the game isn't as complex as Sekiro and you're right, but the game isn't designed to approach enemies like that. You going on a tangent about all the other bulls*** just makes for a bloated and useless post.
To clarify, YOU said it's light on the metroidvania side. No one else...because whether it is or not is UNRELATED TO THE DISCUSSION.
Then learn to read and understand how to extrapolate context. Critic-brain relates to not people having opinions or criticizing something, but rather people who cannot organically communicate an opinion because the only way they know how to do so is the same diatribes as IGN game journos or content farm youtube channels. They pick apart small unrelated aspects and blow them out of proportion to give themselves more to talk about rather than cogently assessing the severity of said nitpicks and assigning them the proper amount of breath to the matter. They over-inflate, exaggerate, nitpick, catastrophize, and sideline while paradoxically ignore, under-emphasize, and self-sabotage their own enjoyment.
Lastly, and I'm reiterating because you fail to read (you write so much and say so little): The game is made for enthusiasts of metroidvanias (never said it was a "very focused metroidlike", whatever that means) thus its combat reflects the more simplified combat of metroidvanias which revolve around jumping, shooting/hitting and placement on the screen, NOT complex character animation reading and parry/posture breaks. While the game has some, it's still designed to be readable and playable by the standard metroidvania fan, not appeal to the die-hard Sekiro fan. While I'm not a mind reader, I surmise it was designed with Sekiro elements to STAND OUT among other metroidvanias, NOT to BE a 2D Sekiro.
If that is too much for you to grasp, then go ahead and keep responding. If you do, perhaps dial back your posts so I don't have to read a bunch of unrelated nonsense and being forced to re-communicate my points.
"designed for enthusiasts of metroidvanias"
you meant
"(...) and by metroidvanias i im not refering to any of the particular and specific elements of metroidvanias, im actually refering to this games' combat, which has absolutely no strong relation to the metroidvania genre, could function on any action sidescroller that isnt a metroidvania, and generally has very little emphasis on any metroidvania-specific elements"
If you say "it puts a heavy focus on metroidvania elements", people are going to think about whats actually inherent about the metroidvania genre. Not simply "simple combat of jumping and positioning". 'mv combat' means nothing by itself due to how vague it is, after all metroidvania combat can take so many different forms, be so many different things and styles (and 9S is a perfect example of this, as per my next paragraphs). But sure, ill discuss around what you want me to discuss :
Your point about the parry and "metroidvania combat" is completely backwards.
You say the genre has to revolve more around stuff like jumping and positioning, and therefore 9S has to follow that.
But in reality, Nine Sols is the game that wants you to deflect nearly every white attack, and its defense demands much lower (sometimes literally unexistent) emphasis on positioning and jumping than most entries of the genre, due to how you can deal with 90% the slashes & red attacks the enemies throw at you by just pressing a button, regardless of your context, movement or position. It goes as far as having awful hitboxes for several parriable attacks, because it was primarily designed around denying said attacks without requiring any movement or positioning. IIRC theres not even a single boss that doesnt take place in a completely flat arena and tries to involve some platforming. So by your own logic, the game isnt specifically focused on metroidvania elements for the combat. Hell, the bosses even function perfectly fine if you mod the game to fight them without any of the metroidvania-style upgrades/powerups you need for progression, they simply become blander.
So why would it necessarily be bad for it to focus more on the deflect mechanic and the counters to red attacks, which it already does so much more than any other facet of the defense, and proved that its a perfectly valid option? I wasnt even saying it necessarily should add anything specific like a posture bar (that would suck) for the record, i just think your reasoning makes no sense.
If anything, i would actually have really loved if Nine Sols' combat had some more emphasis on things you were calling specific to metroidvanias, such as movement and positioning, and evading hitboxes. but thats straight up not what this game focuses on. It mostly wants a specific one dimensional response to most attacks that works regardless of your positioning, it was predominantly built around this, and it really shows when you look at the hitboxes for many of the attacks.
Theres also no reason to say a game "for metroidvania enthusiasts" means simplified combat. Nor that nine sols would be incompatible with "more complex combat" : The devs simply wanted to make the game this way, which was pretty good
I also dont know why you keep reinforcing how it SHOULDNT be a 2D sekiro when i, right off the bat, said that "its light on the specific qualities of sekiro and instead is remarkable for other different qualities of its own"
nine sols has some stuff like that too, you can often talisman pass an enemy in between their combos or even outright detonate it while theyre stuck in the animation. or maybe release a charge attack in between the parries