Money penalty for death

[opos.zero]

I get that it shouldn't be too easy but I'm after the first boss battle and have literally 56 Jin total due to dying. The penalty for not defeating the enemy that killed you is too severe because at the moment you loose all of it.

[Skater901]

Originally posted by Eli Huxtable:

Do you lose levels you have stored up too? Just failed a corpse run but don't remember if I had any level ups. 1500 bucks because a ****ing drone exploded on me and golden knight finished me. Ugh. 10/10 so far though.

Nah if you've earned skill points, you don't lose those. It's like Sekiro. You just lose the experience to your next skill point.

[Badyuyu]

I'm kind of with OP here. Like I've been playing for ~7h now and I could buy 2 items! I have materials for 5+ upgrades but can't aford any.

The already harsh penalty is made worse by
- No homewards Bones so I have 0 ways to save my money (esp if I accidentally entered a Boss fight)
- Areas that are designed as a 'gotcha' Which is fine in soulslikes but in this case combined with some eternally long paths between checkpints means no money for you
- It also just FEELS bad. Why do I leave a hard Boss fight feeling like I gained nothing cause the Bossfight gives half a skill point but lost half a skill point and 1000 gold fighting him. And teleporting back as SOON as you hit a money benchmark interupting all game flow and forcing you to backtrack (again no homewards bones) is also medium fun

I'm loving the whole game gemaplay wise but have now stopped playing twice in frustration now cause 'ooops didn't micromanage my gold & XP and went exploring in the burning insta kill furnace area! You now died and your soul is in an area 5 min from the spawn point that will insta kill you through enviroment dmg! Guess your progress from the last hour is gone now' 😕I would like to get a health upgrade or use my 3 arrow upgrade stones. But I can't cause I keep dying cause I have so little health!

[Mattrex]

My overall strategy was to always carry as little Jin on me as possible, and to avoid recycling components until I had already purchased all the relatively cheap items for sale and only if I needed a top-up to buy something and clear out my bank before going into a tough area or a boss fight.

The game pretty well telegraphs incoming boss fights (you can often even see the location where the door will lock behind you before you cross it) so if I found myself coming up to one of those, I would just return, spend my Jin, and *then* fight the boss.

That said, the latter portion of the game showers money on you indiscriminately. I wound up with a lot of recycleables that I didn't even recycle because I had nothing left to spend money on. It's not really a big deal if you lose some here and there (I sure did, even with my precautions).

[Mattrex]

Originally posted by Badyuyu:

- No homewards Bones so I have 0 ways to save my money (esp if I accidentally entered a Boss fight)

If you die in a boss fight, you will drop your Jin and XP wherever you died in the room. If you feel trapped in a death loop against a boss, you can just make sure you die right next to the entrance to the boss arena.

This game isn't like Dark Souls or Sekiro, where a boss fight begins the moment you enter the room. You typically have to walk to the center of the room where the boss is standing to begin the fight, which means if your money is near the door, you can pick it up and walk right back out without triggering anything.

[Skater901]

Originally posted by Badyuyu:

I'm kind of with OP here. Like I've been playing for ~7h now and I could buy 2 items! I have materials for 5+ upgrades but can't aford any.

The already harsh penalty is made worse by
- No homewards Bones so I have 0 ways to save my money (esp if I accidentally entered a Boss fight)
- Areas that are designed as a 'gotcha' Which is fine in soulslikes but in this case combined with some eternally long paths between checkpints means no money for you
- It also just FEELS bad. Why do I leave a hard Boss fight feeling like I gained nothing cause the Bossfight gives half a skill point but lost half a skill point and 1000 gold fighting him. And teleporting back as SOON as you hit a money benchmark interupting all game flow and forcing you to backtrack (again no homewards bones) is also medium fun

I'm loving the whole game gemaplay wise but have now stopped playing twice in frustration now cause 'ooops didn't micromanage my gold & XP and went exploring in the burning insta kill furnace area! You now died and your soul is in an area 5 min from the spawn point that will insta kill you through enviroment dmg! Guess your progress from the last hour is gone now' 😕I would like to get a health upgrade or use my 3 arrow upgrade stones. But I can't cause I keep dying cause I have so little health!

I haven't even finished the game and I've already maxed out my XP, and I only have one item left to buy (unless new ones pop up) and I have enough recyclable materials to afford it as soon as I find the required material in the world. I have been using the XP and Jin Jades for most of my play time, and also going to spend my Jin when I have a lot of it, but yeah, I wouldn't worry too much cause you'll get most/all stuff by the end of the game, imo.

[xNightxxWingx]

dude its not hard to get money in this game, ive had so much money that i didnt have anything to spend it on at one point

do yourself a favor, and equip these 3 jade slots

- the one that boosts gold drops from enemies
- the one that boosts experience from enemies
- the one that vacuums up gold in the area
- cant remember exactly where all these are, but i know you get all pretty early (im almost positive you get vacuum and increased gold before or immediately after the first boss,, exp one might be a bit later)

double check the zones and vendors) EVERYTIME you get a new ability or complete a zone and/or find a map chip, you'll get tons of gold from exploring. hopefully you know how to explore properly, make sure you get the map chips (dont even pay for them, save your gold, and force remove them, ♥♥♥♥ those npcs, we need gold not them)

after that go to Kuafu, the fat dude, and purchase this: "Transmute unto Wealth" talisman thing, and goto the save point/bonfire/root thing/w,e you want to call it, and equip it in the bottom right slot in the status/inventory screen, what it does is further boosts gold drops when killing an enemy with a talisman attack

after that, start getting good, stop dying, and parry everything, even if you mistime you take internal damage that will heal overtime.

ok so keep going to the next zone in terms of progression after the first boss, and you'll come across another jade, you probably wont have room for it, but it'll come in handy if you die to a enemy your not confident against, it's called "Soul Reaper Jade" it lets you get your drops back from the enemy that killed you simply by hitting them with a Talisman attack, could come in handy.

you should also come across a vendor that sells "poison", purchase them, handing in 2 to a certain npc that will arive at your base boosts your HP, always upgrade your flask and buy extra flask charges when your back at the base as well, there very plentiful

after that continue getting good, land those parries, move around alot, get the skull drop skill in the skill tree, utilize it stay airborne more and ignore ground enemies, also get the "Water Talisman" spell for your spell slot asap, it makes talismans auto detonate after attaching them so you can continue to focus on other combat manuevers

early game can be annoying, but it gets better, and with those 3 jades, you'll have TONS of extra gold and a constant flow of skill points that dying is honestly a non-issue as you can get it back so fast. but honestly if you are dying that much early game, idk how you are gonna fare after the first boss, as thats when the training wheels come off and the game is only going to get harder

[xNightxxWingx]

Originally posted by Badyuyu:

I'm kind of with OP here. Like I've been playing for ~7h now and I could buy 2 items! I have materials for 5+ upgrades but can't aford any.

The already harsh penalty is made worse by
- No homewards Bones so I have 0 ways to save my money (esp if I accidentally entered a Boss fight)
- Areas that are designed as a 'gotcha' Which is fine in soulslikes but in this case combined with some eternally long paths between checkpints means no money for you
- It also just FEELS bad. Why do I leave a hard Boss fight feeling like I gained nothing cause the Bossfight gives half a skill point but lost half a skill point and 1000 gold fighting him. And teleporting back as SOON as you hit a money benchmark interupting all game flow and forcing you to backtrack (again no homewards bones) is also medium fun

I'm loving the whole game gemaplay wise but have now stopped playing twice in frustration now cause 'ooops didn't micromanage my gold & XP and went exploring in the burning insta kill furnace area! You now died and your soul is in an area 5 min from the spawn point that will insta kill you through enviroment dmg! Guess your progress from the last hour is gone now' 😕I would like to get a health upgrade or use my 3 arrow upgrade stones. But I can't cause I keep dying cause I have so little health!

dude what are you even talking about? bosses DO NOT hold your drops when you die, just walk in and pick it back up, or if you are smart and want to take a gamble, leave it there and use it as a backup heal after taking some damage, there is zero reason you should leave a boss feeling frustrated, as there is zero reason you should've lost your drops

also you can make money (and earn exp) SO FAST in this game, by simply using the correct jades, and by purchasing the correct items at base, where dying and losing drops is honestly a non-issue, it gets to the point where you won't have or need anything else to buy just by playing smart

also not a single area is designed as a "gotcha", it just basic metroidvania gameplay, something akin to hollow knight, where save points are more stretched out to force the player to actually get better and learn the game, and not hold there hand giving them a freebie every other room.

this game is honestly a masterpiece and listen to you describe it in this way is insane, either GIT GUD, put the game on story mode, or just stop playing as it sounds like this game isn't for you? if you are dying that much this early, you are doing something HORRIBLY wrong, as the game only gets much harder as you go on, but by then it should be fun because you have mastered combat and should be able to put up with whatever the game throws at you.

i think the problem is people beat elden ring or dark souls, or whatever other game they think is "hard" when in reality most souls-likes are NOT hard, you can simply out level any boss, and in the case of elden ring and ds3 just spam roll and use over powered ashes of war. this game is NOT a souls-like in anyway, it's a metroidvania with parry-focused combat akin to sekiro, and very challenging bosses

git gud, try story mode, or stop playing, the game isn't the problem, it's you

[xNightxxWingx]

Originally posted by The Comedian:

I haven't died twice in a row yet, but I have to agree, the death penalty is too brutal. You lose all your money AND your XP if you fail the corpse run. I can't think of another metroidvania that punishes you so much for dying.

its for a reason, you will eventually run out of things to buy, and earning money/exp is extremely easy in this game, between certain jades, farming easy enemies that give good exp/gold, and using transmute into wealth

if it didnt exist, you'd be able to buy all upgrades/acquire all skill points way before endgame, which in my case thats what happened, im probably at the 60% and i have nothing left to upgrade

[stevo]

You get to a certain point in the game where you just ignore any coin and experience you gain because you know you'll lose it. The game has a lot of points where you can just stumble into a death, and ain't nobody got time to be tip toeing around the dense enemy areas with traps.

Although I must admit most of my losses just come from forgetting to pick up my death sprite from a boss room. They should've just made it more intuitive and made it an auto pickup, and bollocks to the whole enemies hold it hostage thing.

It's not really a case of gitting gud. It's a case of just tedious game design that you simply choose to not be stressed over at a certain point. And I think the people that find this design frustrating would benefit more from not caring about it and just relying on the banked experience/coin items you get. Most of the skills aren't worth worrying over, a full skill point is always banked, and as for coins, it's a little annoying, but most of what you can spend them on isn't super useful outside of a few core upgrades anyway. Most of the jades etc are just bleh.

[Simatron3000]

Originally posted by The Comedian:

I haven't died twice in a row yet, but I have to agree, the death penalty is too brutal. You lose all your money AND your XP if you fail the corpse run. I can't think of another metroidvania that punishes you so much for dying.

Loads of games copy the Souls mechanic, I think its a trash mechanic personally, wish games would stop copying it.

[Badyuyu]

Originally posted by xNightxxWingx:

git gud, try story mode, or stop playing, the game isn't the problem, it's you

I'm so confused why you felt you needed the last part... You had some good initial points describes why you didnt have the issue, suggested how to avoid feeling like that. Nice post. Helpful, tone a little condescending but hey all good 👍

And then after taking the time to write all that for some reason you decided that this is all an attack on your ego or smth and started with the entire 'git good you suck I rule only real gamers no girls allowed in the treehouse!' stuff.

Just for the future: you could have just stopped before the entire rant and this would have been a productive post good for the community and helpful for players less skilled than you. Wouldn't that feel better? To help others out instead of belitteling them and telling them to stop playing/supporting a game you just called a 'Masterpiece'?

[kukukachu]

Originally posted by ThirteenCandles:

Originally posted by kukukachu:

that's a staple in the souls games. This game is somewhat inspired by Sekiro, so, that's just the par for the course.

You lost half of your current gold in sekiro on death, plus and what most games have that have a separate currency they have ways to buy currency like bags of gold in sekiro, spend 1000 gold to keep 900 but you don't lose the 900 on death. Like if we could make components then the system would be so much better.

well I'd argue you have all the material you can recycle at the 3d printer. That's Jin just waiting for the right time to be used, kinda like a piggy bank. You don't ever lose it unless you turn it into jin and then go fighting and losing.

[Jayfeather]

This is just kind of a staple of soulslike games? there should be a penalty for dying, and this isnt all that harsh compared to something like Blasphemous.

[Sosav]

What happens if you die again before picking up the loot from the first death? Do you permanently lose the first drop?

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by Sosav:

What happens if you die again before picking up the loot from the first death? Do you permanently lose the first drop?

Yes. That's the thing people are annoyed about. Personally, I don't mind (though I'm not very far into the game yet). It makes dying more interesting than just teleporting you back to your last rest point. I remember when I was fighting a miniboss in the first area, I leveled up entirely from killing the four guys on the way to the boss because I was able to get my exp back every time. Combine that with the fact you can get actually a fair amount of Jin just by breaking background objects and if you didn't lose anything on death resources would be very farmable.