The folks doing the English scripts for these games need to stop

[retsa2b]

Had a bellyfull of these shenanigans in Yakuza 7 and it's been the same story with each of the remastered / Kiwami games as well. They can do a good English script, but every minute or so of talking, a character will say a few things in Japanese which fails UTTERLY to get properly conveyed in the English subtitles.

What often happens is the translator straight up exchanges one complete sentence for an entirely different complete sentence. Original meaning: Gone.

Haven't even made it very far into Ishin but I'm already getting sick of it. Examples I just heard in the middle of chapter 3:

Original Japanese (approx): "You be careful, y' hear?"
English subtitles: "Even if they're on the same team."

And a bit before that:

Original Japanese (approx): "You're not the one I'm after."
English subtitles: "You're not bloodthirsty enough."

This last one is particularly awful because Ryoma said it half under his breath but the other guy caught it and went "Hmm?" because it raised his suspicions. He was alarmed by "You're not the one I'm after", but because the sentence was completely and arbitrarily misrepresented, players relying on the English subtitles are left to believe he merely had his interest (weirdly) piqued by "You're not bloodthirsty enough", which makes no real sense at all within the context of that conversation.

I hate this BS. Why can't the folks localizing these games just adhere to the standards of anime localization? Do they think they know better than the Japanese devs? Is there some "make sh** up" queue that they're under pledge to fulfill?

[MisterPool]

You could always just play with the sound off...

[retsa2b]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MisterPool:

You could always just play with the sound off...

Hah. You know I actually did that for the karaoke minigame in Yakuza 7, because it's the only game in the franchise where the timing of the button prompts was so out of sync with the music that I could generally only beat the songs with the game muted.

[Kingsleaze]

You must be new at...life. Translations always have this issue, and the more different the languages the harder it is. English and Japanese are VERY different. Some Japanese phrases have no English equivalent, and it can be really hard to convey what is being said.

You can either do a straight translation, ensuring that a lot of the subtleties and idioms will be lost to those who aren't knowledgeable about the foreign culture, or you can try to localize the script to better make sense to the target audience, but then you anger the eternally critical weebs. Its a no-win situation. I have mad respect for good translators, and the Yakuza series has some of the best English translations.

[Julius Skeezer]

You can localize without changing the tone or intent of a line. Even if it's a really esoteric phrase that has no direct translation or equivalent in English, if you're even a halfway decent writer, you can still find a way to correctly convey the intended message.

The problem is that most localizers today (and for a long time) seem to think they have carte blanche to just re-write ♥♥♥♥ if they want, for whatever reason they want - be it laziness, a lack of writing talent, or straight up to insert a message they just want to insert, regardless of how completely inappropriate it is for the source material.

I've never seen anybody say they want literal word-for-word translations. That's a strawman argument I've seen tossed around. We just get annoyed when there are blatant and obvious shenanigans.

[Siamese55]

Honestly, I hate it, too, but this is hardly the first (or the last) game guilty. Even people with no clue of the other language can at least tell when names are mentioned in text/voice and not represented properly.

I suppose some taste is involved in this. If there is room for finagling in translation, then there is infinite space for it in localization. Like you, I want something strictly adherent to the original words and meanings (they already had a glossary tool set up they could have used for uncommon phrases). That said, the fact of the matter is most people do not care and it could be argued that the best type of localization is the one not noticed.

[Ender Zayne]

You're wrong about one thing, "You're not bloodthirsty enough" DID fit the context for that scene - I remember it. He was looking for someone with killing intent behind their fighting style, and the one he was fighting did not have that aura about them. It may not be a literal translation, but it fit the context.

This comes with being bilingual. I'm fairly cognizant of Japanese, but I'm not proficient enough to catch everything.

[aseinsha]

Yup, sometimes the English translation is quite different from what is being said in Japanese... I don't like it either.

[nikolaLTP]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cobalt Thunder:

You're wrong about one thing, "You're not bloodthirsty enough" DID fit the context for that scene - I remember it. He was looking for someone with killing intent behind their fighting style, and the one he was fighting did not have that aura about them. It may not be a literal translation, but it fit the context.

This comes with being bilingual. I'm fairly cognizant of Japanese, but I'm not proficient enough to catch everything.

You are right. It is context .
OP is right also but any subs on any language is like this especially from different language groups . Don't let me start on poetry

[retsa2b]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kingsleaze:

You must be new at...life.

Let me ask you a question. If you were in charge of handling the subtitles for the Japanese audio of a game, which the player has specifically chosen because they want the authentic experience of the original game and are only asking for accurate subtitles that are a good match for what's being said, how would you translate the following?

"Arigatou."

[retsa2b]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cobalt Thunder:

It may not be a literal translation, but it fit the context.

What I specifically said was that the other guy's alarmed reaction to that turn of phrase made no contextual sense. A person can still pretend that maybe it made a little sense but then you still have to ask yourself: If it makes 99.9% less contextual sense than responding with alarm to "You're not who I'm after" then why in the hell did they switch it up in the first place? In the absolute best case, they made it needlessly confusing for the English-speaking player.

Edit: Remember, this is a microcosm of the issue. A couple of lines I just happened to pull out of the game where I'm currently playing it. I can deliver an endless supply if I need to.

[retsa2b]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Siamese55:

Honestly, I hate it, too, but this is hardly the first (or the last) game guilty.

It's a problem I understand well. If I'm being completely fair, these localizers are nowhere near as offensive as, say, 8-4. Here's the conspicuous observation: Game localizers almost invariably make endless needless changes to the meaning of what the speaker is saying. Anime localizers almost invariably do not. Anime subs/dubs used to be more or less this bad. In the 90s. It's 2023. There's no more excuse. Anime localizations set the standard easily.

So what's going on here? I believe it's a kind of cultural thing. To do an accurate-yet-lucid subtitle, it takes a bit of effort and a bit of intuition. The folks in charge of anime probably got enough complaints over the years (or had a 20/20 acknowledgment of the failures of the 80s/90s) that they decided they would need to shape up or ship out. Game localization studios, by comparison, remain stuck in yesteryear. They're still in business despite their hideous shortcomings, so why change? 8-4 is infamous for this and always has been.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Siamese55:

That said, the fact of the matter is most people do not care and it could be argued that the best type of localization is the one not noticed.

Precisely, my friend. That's why when folks like SEGA's localizers pull this sh--, they're really making a big heaping assumption about the player base: That nobody in 2023, among players who are playing a heavily Japanese franchise, is going to have the faintest inkling what characters are actually saying. Not even for simple go-to phrases like "Thanks." If they want to sidestep the embarrassment of having their sh---y translations questioned, it's pretty simple: Do better.

[moike]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von retsa2b:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Kingsleaze:

You must be new at...life.

Let me ask you a question. If you were in charge of handling the subtitles for the Japanese audio of a game, which the player has specifically chosen because they want the authentic experience of the original game and are only asking for accurate subtitles that are a good match for what's being said, how would you translate the following?

"Arigatou."

if you want "the authentic experience" then go learn japanese

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cobalt Thunder:

You're wrong about one thing, "You're not bloodthirsty enough" DID fit the context for that scene - I remember it. He was looking for someone with killing intent behind their fighting style, and the one he was fighting did not have that aura about them. It may not be a literal translation, but it fit the context.

This comes with being bilingual. I'm fairly cognizant of Japanese, but I'm not proficient enough to catch everything.

this pretty much, I don't know japanese well enough (started learning a month ago), but that scene where ryoma says "you're not bloodthirsty enough" didn't feel out of place because it fit in the context of the scene and story

[retsa2b]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pierre Doon:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von retsa2b:

how would you translate the following?
"Arigatou."

if you want "the authentic experience" then go learn japanese

I'm giving the guy a chance to defend needlessly sh-- subtitles. But your indirect agreement with my main argument is appreciated.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cobalt Thunder:

this pretty much, I don't know japanese well enough (started learning a month ago), but that scene where ryoma says "you're not bloodthirsty enough" didn't feel out of place because it fit in the context of the scene and story

No no, this is where you're supposed to argue that changing this line from what the guy said to a completely different thing made better contextual sense because it would make less sense for the guy to be put on guard by "You're not the one I'm looking for". You're defending the altering of sentences to other sentences, so you gotta have a reason, right? "Not being out of place" doesn't pass muster.

[MasterScrub]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von retsa2b:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Pierre Doon:

if you want "the authentic experience" then go learn japanese

I'm giving the guy a chance to defend needlessly sh-- subtitles. But your indirect agreement with my main argument is appreciated.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Cobalt Thunder:

this pretty much, I don't know japanese well enough (started learning a month ago), but that scene where ryoma says "you're not bloodthirsty enough" didn't feel out of place because it fit in the context of the scene and story

No no, this is where you're supposed to argue that changing this line from what the guy said to a completely different thing made better contextual sense because it would make less sense for the guy to be put on guard by "You're not the one I'm looking for". You're defending the altering of sentences to other sentences, so you gotta have a reason, right? "Not being out of place" doesn't pass muster.

If you're such an expert at the Japanese language, why the hell are you playing with English subtitles?

[retsa2b]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von MasterScrub:

If you're such an expert at the Japanese language, why the hell are you playing with English subtitles?

That really doesn't have anything to do with the topic. Easy answer that is applicable to the discussion: Once a person has the basics down, a really damn quick way to iron out their studies is to watch things in Japanese with subtitles. They'll improve their vocabulary through osmosis, and intrinsically learn the way things are spoken and whether a given sentence does or doesn't sound kosher if they try formulating one themselves.

This assumes, of course, that the subtitles are reasonably accurate.