Greed is as worthless as it sounds

[retsa2b]

Anyone who truly knows what's involved will agree that there's a lot of effort that goes into developing a weapon with +36% drop rate.

Well I'm here to tell you that there isn't any happy math going on here. So like, the default drop rate is whatever, 10%? +36% doesn't change this to 46%. I can't tell the difference at all. So I'm probably getting a 13.6% drop rate. It's not adding. It's multiplying.

I want those many hours back.

Somebody tell me which seals are actually worth a damn, please. Because from where I'm sitting, every one of them is basically just flavor.

[The Lone Badger]

The chance-of-extra-bullets seals for guns are great. And the rate-of-fire inherent seal (don't think you can get that as an applyable seal).

The 'extra elemental damage' seals for swords seem like they have good numbers at least? (+75% sounds good). Don't know what it equates to in practice.

I think 'less heat expenditure' can add up to something decent, but I haven't tried it myself.

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by The Lone Badger:

The 'extra elemental damage' seals for swords seem like they have good numbers at least? (+75% sounds good). Don't know what it equates to in practice.

I'm pretty confident it works out like: X % higher chance of applying. So like on a poison sword, they'll get poisoned in 2 swings instead of 3. Yeah, you can see how that's not exactly blowing me away. Very much in keeping with the vast majority of seals, though. There's a gun that inherently has +150% on it. So it's obviously worthless.

[Sentient_Toaster]

"Pierce", even baseline un-upgraded, seemed very effective at doing lots of damage to armor.

+damage (IIRC, there's a "Fierce Attack" seal) is basic but useful.

If you insist on going hard in Brawler, I can't imagine that going well at all unless you go for the seals which specificallly boost Brawler damage.

[Abram Volkov]

The seal that increases your attack and the seal that increases your defense by a percentage based off how much virtue you have is pretty op since virtue is easy to farm

Hard part is farming the damn seals nearly impossible

[Bee]

Aw man, found this thread halfway through grinding my own max greed sword (couldve sworn i felt a difference on my chopstick gun with added golden greed seal but couldve been an illusion). Guess ill just get a sword that gets me through dungeons as fast as possible

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by Bee:

Guess ill just get a sword that gets me through dungeons as fast as possible

This approach was always going to be the best one. The only reason I built a Greed sword was on the off chance that Greed worked more conspicuously than the description strictly states. Kind of like how a single Pierce seal makes all the difference, despite the fact that it says "20% greater chance" or whatever. I was hoping "6%" was added to an inherent 10% drop rate, and that in the end, my Greed sword would be giving me something like 4x the normal drop rate.

[pre-crack eg]

It seems like whenever there is grinding involved in any rgg game's side activities it's complete garbage and ishin is the perfect example of that. It's both not worth it, takes a lot of time and there's 100% a way to get something similar for way less time spent. I dread them releasing Fist of the Northstar on PC because I really don't wanna grind in that game...

As a sidenote though, If you don't mind it and don't think of it as cheating you can get a mod from the yakuza modding discord that essentially lets you buy seals. Really goes a long way to make everything less frustrating for a game that doesn't respect your time and effort. That should at least help you figure out what seals work and which don't.

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by one thing i dont know why:

That should at least help you figure out what seals work and which don't.

I'm not especially torn on this. I'm fine with the balance SEGA (and basically everyone else) has set up. If the game outright told you, complete with formulae, how each seal worked, that would, in my opinion, diminish too much of the "figure out what works well for you" component of the system. It would be 100% obvious to everyone which seals to focus on, everyone would have the same builds, and everyone would know everyone else was doing the same damn thing.

Instead, fast forward to a point where the info is available to whoever cares to go look it up, and at least there remains some measure of "I did the work to figure out how to be OP". I prefer having some of that. If the game was so unworthy of playing that even that felt like too much effort, then I'd already have stopped playing it—and I like to think that anyone else who finds so little value in what they're playing would have made that conclusion as well. I've encountered plenty of games that made me feel like cheating just to get some enjoyment out of it (Dragon Quest XI being my most prominent recent example), and 9 times out of 10 I end up just giving up on the thing.

[pre-crack eg]

Originally posted by retsa2b:

Originally posted by one thing i dont know why:

That should at least help you figure out what seals work and which don't.

I'm not especially torn on this. I'm fine with the balance SEGA (and basically everyone else) has set up. If the game outright told you, complete with formulae, how each seal worked, that would, in my opinion, diminish too much of the "figure out what works well for you" component of the system. It would be 100% obvious to everyone which seals to focus on, everyone would have the same builds, and everyone would know everyone else was doing the same damn thing.

Instead, fast forward to a point where the info is available to whoever cares to go look it up, and at least there remains some measure of "I did the work to figure out how to be OP". I prefer having some of that. If the game was so unworthy of playing that even that felt like too much effort, then I'd already have stopped playing it—and I like to think that anyone else who finds so little value in what they're playing would have made that conclusion as well. I've encountered plenty of games that made me feel like cheating just to get some enjoyment out of it (Dragon Quest XI being my most prominent recent example), and 9 times out of 10 I end up just giving up on the thing.

Yeah, sadly Yakuza is a series with little to no documentation on stuff like this, due to a lack of a really in-depth wiki and the good old reliance on gameFAQs for any info instead. I 100%ed this game (massive mistake in hindsight) and due to its grindy nature I didn't even wanna try out all the weapons I had to craft/acquire to do so. I simply wanted to never touch the game again after getting that final achievement, so I just used the most op stuff like the fire-sword and that one really fast gun with the strongest armor I had and moved on with my day. The remake being of questionable quality really didn't help in keeping me hooked either.

This is certainly a game that doesn't respect the player. Hell even the decisions they made with the core gameplay of the remake oftentimes don't. If I was any more rational I'd have used all the cheats I could find but I resisted simply due to the fact I love these games. I feel like if we all stopped respecting the games that don't respect us we'd be a lot happier in the end, much like you said there. But hey, sometimes a man has gotta be a little stupid

[Rin]

OP clearly doesn't know how seals work properly in this game.

[MisterPool]

Originally posted by Sentient_Toaster:

If you insist on going hard in Brawler, I can't imagine that going well at all unless you go for the seals which specificallly boost Brawler damage.

Maybe I've just been lucky with the RNG, but I've been getting Brawler seals to drop when I'm using the Brawler style. It may also be working that way with the other styles, but I haven't been keeping a running log or anything to verify.

[retsa2b]

Originally posted by MisterPool:

Maybe I've just been lucky with the RNG, but I've been getting Brawler seals to drop when I'm using the Brawler style. It may also be working that way with the other styles, but I haven't been keeping a running log or anything to verify.

I started collecting the brawler seals (the real ones, with two fists) just as a normal part of my day to day smithing grind. You know. Forge the next thing on your list, and if it has a seal, reload the game and see if that seal is worth a damn, such as by making the hat that has a small chance of having the Blessed seal. (Which I now have about a dozen of.)

Anyway, the double-fist seals are super common if farmed this way, so I've got gear with 6 or 7 fully gold seals total. Real talk? This brings brawler to parity with the other stances. If I went full brawler seals, it would probably be the second fastest killing in the game, after gun.

Not worth it. My new gig is amassing "Special Moves" seals until I can do heat actions almost for free.

[DMC123]

Lol. I just built a model 14 with 24% Greed. ... I was hoping that it somehow increased the quality of drops. Unfortunately, you are correct.