What do you think about Cards (Soldier Skills) in Ishin Remake?

[花筏]

If it was a optional thing I wouldn't mind, but some people want immersion, it ruins the serious samurai atmosphere of the game. Yakuza games have always been unrealistic, but this takes it to a completely new level. You don't see Kiryu shooting Kamehameha beams out of his hands in any other Yakuza game. (Or the original Ishin for that matter)

Things like this only works in Yakuza 7 because it's a turn based RPG and it works with Ichiban's imagination. I feel like the cards was only added to pander to Y7 fans to get them interested in the game. (although I saw it somewhere, the makers wanted to add it to the normal combat)

[⎝⧹Za Furan⧸⎠]

I like the card system, however I never use the cards of the free DLC (youtubers) because they are too OP, only the ones obtained while playing, the exclusives of the Deluxe Edition should be OP too I guess.

[Napalmburner]

I honestly forgot about the DLC cards halfway through the game because most of them are... okay?
Either way you eventually get better ones if you focus on recruiting.
Shinada is EXTREMELY busted and Ichiban is hilarious if you use Wild Dancer's extreme heat move so his damage buff doesn't instantly disappear.

[May]

My only issue is that they use too much space of the screen

[Seleszi]

Originally posted by Napalmburner:

I only use the trooper card abilities in the battle dungeons (as that is what they're designed for)
The stat boosts are nice, but I'm definitely not equipping any cards when I do Ishin! difficulty unless I decide to grind the battle dungeons.

About Amon cause seleszi was curious:


(Done on Hard difficulty, no NG+)

His battle dungeon fight is annoying, but doable without spamming trooper abilities. Just a long fight because everything has jacked health and defense. I liked the fact that each of the 3 support dudes were weak to a specific style, though.

His actual substory fight is even easier, had to reload a save and unequip all trooper cards before it actually got difficult. I swear I'm either over-geared, over-leveled, or some combo of the two. I only had limit broken Wild Dancer for Amon and was level 45 on it.

It could also be that I over-prepared; I always fill my inventory with the best healing items I have for every Amon fight I've done.
I definitely couldn't have beaten Jo Amon on Yakuza 5 without all those Staminan Sparks I had Kiryu chug.

I can comfortably say I had a worse time with Yakuza 4's Amon Clan than I did with Ishin Remake Amon, which is very disappointing.
Maybe if I fight Amon on Ishin! difficulty it'll feel like it should: extreme pain and frustration. Maybe it'll be so hard I'll have to use trooper cards, who knows?

Wow I'm genuinely surprised. I expected Amon to spam magic every second lol

[ImHelping]

My issues with the cards is more how clearly they gut your core stats in favor of offloading them to the cards. Not to do with the abilities (and a lot of abilities are weak, or take too long to recharge to be worthwhile, so no wonder people just use it as an excuse to whine about DLC instead of actual balance).

Your health upgrades have always been fairly small in skill trees, but the ones in this game are patheeeeetic. And then here comes trooper cards come in adding a notable chunk to your health bar and you go "Oh. so that's why my health upgrades have felt like ♥♥♥♥ compared to most yakuza games..."

I expect the same sort of idiots that have gotten food that makes you puke blood nerfed "Because it grows on trees! overpowered!" in scifi food replicator games, would also be foolish enough to call trooper cards in GENERAL overpowered. I bet somebody thinks 2 to 6+ health per second minimum auto heal ability is overpowered because "oh my god freeee health!" even if leaving the house to pick up dinner and coming back won't fill as much as a basic 1000 mon medicine. Because gosh, a very small selection of premium cards don't suck. that means everything is overpowered right?

But no, all of the raw stats on offer from cards just feel too much like "Wow I should have had these stats in the first place from the skill trees".

Oh and also the UI is miserable if you actually want to have an even spread of cards instead of slotting giga cards and calling it a day.

"Okay I have three cards of the same guy, literally. by a grand coincidence two out of three of them are at the same level, further adding to confusion of 'which one did I assign to this team?'" Game also talks up how matching weapons to fighting styles matters, but does not say how, or how much. You CAN assign whoever you want to whatever style, but what is getting boosted/neutered if you don't play square peg to square hole and the game is giving you ♥♥♥♥ all for spear wielders that are "good for brawler", etc.

[Napalmburner]

Originally posted by seleszi:

Wow I'm genuinely surprised. I expected Amon to spam magic every second lol

Yeah he's kinda easy :(

His first phase is the hardest; getting hit by his full Dragonfang Flash left me with barely a sliver of HP. You also can't parry half his moves with Brawler.
His second phase is more annoying then anything else. He doesn't even have any special moves, he just copies Wild Dancer for the 2nd phase!

[Napalmburner]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

My issues with the cards is more how clearly they gut your core stats in favor of offloading them to the cards. Not to do with the abilities (and a lot of abilities are weak, or take too long to recharge to be worthwhile, so no wonder people just use it as an excuse to whine about DLC instead of actual balance).

Your health upgrades have always been fairly small in skill trees, but the ones in this game are patheeeeetic. And then here comes trooper cards come in adding a notable chunk to your health bar and you go "Oh. so that's why my health upgrades have felt like ♥♥♥♥ compared to most yakuza games..."

I expect the same sort of idiots that have gotten food that makes you puke blood nerfed "Because it grows on trees! overpowered!" in scifi food replicator games, would also be foolish enough to call trooper cards in GENERAL overpowered. I bet somebody thinks 2 to 6+ health per second minimum auto heal ability is overpowered because "oh my god freeee health!" even if leaving the house to pick up dinner and coming back won't fill as much as a basic 1000 mon medicine. Because gosh, a very small selection of premium cards don't suck. that means everything is overpowered right?

But no, all of the raw stats on offer from cards just feel too much like "Wow I should have had these stats in the first place from the skill trees".

Oh and also the UI is miserable if you actually want to have an even spread of cards instead of slotting giga cards and calling it a day.

"Okay I have three cards of the same guy, literally. is this the one I have equipped or not? wait hold on-"

I agree with this; health-wise an upgrade will barely get you the same a single level would in Yakuza 5, (not the Boost Health ability, just simply leveling up) and the free stat boosts from the cards are very important.
I feel once you get high-tier equipment you can probably take off all trooper cards and still feel like you're doing good damage and all that.

Except for Brawler. Jeez the damage on Brawler sucks even with all the boosts I have, even including the temporary Brawler DMG up from one of my troopers.

[ImHelping]

I slot the pathetic little passive heal on brawler because "Well, I am going to be spending the next ten to twenty seconds pummeling this last enemy while they are down including maneuvers for critical backstab numbers until they finally die. Might as well get some drip feed juice box health in."

And that is with experimenting with maxed out brawler style damage (299 on the ability screen? What, would an even 300 be overpowered?) WITH the naked fistfight loincloth. Yeah, I reloaded my save after that to get back to even spread of "half my training orbs evenly across styles, half stashed for a rainy day "Oh this boss wants X ability" mid fight spending"

[Napalmburner]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

I slot the pathetic little passive heal on brawler because "Well, I am going to be spending the next ten to twenty seconds pummeling this last enemy while they are down including maneuvers for critical backstab numbers until they finally die. Might as well get some drip feed juice box health in."

And that is with experimenting with maxed out brawler style damage (299 on the ability screen? What, would an even 300 be overpowered?) WITH the naked fistfight loincloth. Yeah, I reloaded my save after that to get back to even spread of "half my training orbs evenly across styles, half stashed for a rainy day "Oh this boss wants X ability" mid fight spending"

Yeah, no, I limit broke Brawler but only have the first 4-5 abilities. MAYBE with every attack upgrade ascended + 90% bonus Brawler damage from equipment it will do reasonable damage.
At least with all these boosts Tiger Drop hits fairly hard. FAIRLY hard. 300-400 dmg. Not too bad, I guess.

[ImHelping]

Originally posted by Napalmburner:

Originally posted by ImHelping:

I slot the pathetic little passive heal on brawler because "Well, I am going to be spending the next ten to twenty seconds pummeling this last enemy while they are down including maneuvers for critical backstab numbers until they finally die. Might as well get some drip feed juice box health in."

And that is with experimenting with maxed out brawler style damage (299 on the ability screen? What, would an even 300 be overpowered?) WITH the naked fistfight loincloth. Yeah, I reloaded my save after that to get back to even spread of "half my training orbs evenly across styles, half stashed for a rainy day "Oh this boss wants X ability" mid fight spending"

Yeah, no, I limit broke Brawler but only have the first 4-5 abilities. MAYBE with every attack upgrade ascended + 90% bonus Brawler damage from equipment it will do reasonable damage.
At least with all these boosts Tiger Drop hits fairly hard. FAIRLY hard. 300-400 dmg. Not too bad, I guess.

"But tiger drop!" is basically the free bingo card excuse I am mocking for a reason. Oh wow, you unlocked ultimate max power, and wear a basically double damage loincloth. and your defense of brawler as a whole is still only "uh.... it is reasonable, I guess."

Granted, I am sure many people will take "Spend an absurd amount of time punching fodder not immune to parries while they are on the ground over and over" the wrong way and say "See! You killed them without taking damage, therefore overpowered."

When beating a helpless fodder you saved for last with your ultimate upgrade fists still takes longer than killing his five other friends with weapons of "The game gave you a freebie out of pity" quality, yeaaaaaah.

Franchise meme "But tiger drop!" doesn't excuse hitting people with a table the size of a small family dealing tickle damage to street punks. Imagine if hitting people with a bicycle in the main games did tickle damage, and how crazy you would look saying "But tiger drop means breaking three bikes over a guy's head without killing him isn't weak!"

[Napalmburner]

Originally posted by ImHelping:

"But tiger drop!" is basically the free bingo card excuse I am mocking for a reason. Oh wow, you unlocked ultimate max power, and wear a basically double damage loincloth. and your defense of brawler as a whole is still only "uh.... it is reasonable, I guess."

Granted, I am sure many people will take "Spend an absurd amount of time punching fodder not immune to parries while they are on the ground over and over" the wrong way and say "See! You killed them without taking damage, therefore overpowered."

When beating a helpless fodder you saved for last with your ultimate upgrade fists still takes longer than killing his five other friends with weapons of "The game gave you a freebie out of pity" quality, yeaaaaaah.

Franchise meme "But tiger drop!" doesn't excuse hitting people with a table the size of a small family dealing tickle damage to street punks. Imagine if hitting people with a bicycle in the main games did tickle damage, and how crazy you would look saying "But tiger drop means breaking three bikes over a guy's head without killing him isn't weak!"

The problem I have with Brawler is that Tiger Drop is the ONLY viable move. It's not even a joke, like seriously WHY is Brawler so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ weak?!
Like you said, even smashing a table over some dude's head does nothing for damage. Like dude come on. Why is Tiger Drop the only viable move? Really sucks.