BN3 Blue vs White

[syncx86]

Does Capcom wants clueless players to play White? As that is the default version the game offers to select, unless you change the version.

In fact I almost started White, but while googling 90% of the players seems to prefer / suggest Blue, so I will do that.

[DarkMachine]

Because MMBN3 Blue is actually just the localized version of the original Rockman EXE 3 Black in Japan which was the re-release of Rockman EXE 3 or MMBN3 White for markets outside of Japan. MMBN3 Blue/Rockman EXE 3 Black is the updated and enhanced "definitive version" of the third mainline Battle Network game.

So for consumers outside of a Japan whom are not aware, they were actually buying the inferior version of MMBN3 if they choose to get MMBN3 White when it was first released on the GBA system.

[Papa Shekels]

I didn't look up the differences since I don't want to accidentally find spoilers, but is there any reason one would want to play white over blue? Or is blue just objectively the better/more complete version? It sounds like it's not the case as pokemon games for example where you just have two slightly different variants mirroring each other

[Drakodan]

Originally posted by Papa Shekels:

I didn't look up the differences since I don't want to accidentally find spoilers, but is there any reason one would want to play white over blue? Or is blue just objectively the better/more complete version? It sounds like it's not the case as pokemon games for example where you just have two slightly different variants mirroring each other

Certain chip codes only drop in either Blue or White, but that's an extremely niche case that only matters when you're trying to optimise certain folder setups.

Ground Style is only obtainable in White, and it kind of sucks. Basing your Navicust setup and colour constraint around something you can achieve by using a -stage chip is a terrible tradeoff.

The version-exclusive Gigachip is Navirecycle instead of FolderBack, and it's worse in almost every way. FolderBack is the best chip in this entire series, the only situation where Navirecycle is remotely competitive is if FolderBack is soft-banned.

[Bocchi Did Nothing Wrong]

Originally posted by Drakodan:

The version-exclusive Gigachip is Navirecycle instead of FolderBack, and it's worse in almost every way. FolderBack is the best chip in this entire series, the only situation where Navirecycle is remotely competitive is if FolderBack is soft-banned.

Ah but you see, there is one single advantage to Navirecycle, since it only has a capacity of 50 you can actually set it as your standard chip.

[Drakodan]

Navirecycle is a brick until a Navichip has been used, so I wouldn't necessarily want it as a Reg chip but sure, I guess.

It's difficult to justify not using FullCust as your Reg chip when you're trying to run an "optimal" setup.

[Exvalcore]

White's always been the better version, better boss giga chips/(via area grab lethal) & better UI vs blue's menu if I recall correctly, + ground style is just the better style vs shadow, other than that differences are so small it doesn't matter.

[Drakodan]

Originally posted by Exvalcore:

White's always been the better version, better boss giga chips/(via area grab lethal) & better UI vs blue's menu if I recall correctly, + ground style is just the better style vs shadow, other than that differences are so small it doesn't matter.

Many of the version differences boil down to preference/opinion depending on how you look at them, but to say that "White has better Gigas" is just incorrect when Blue has FolderBack. It's far too strong to be a Gigachip, it's a "What the actual hell were they thinking when they designed this thing" chip, it would still be overpowered and an auto-include in any folder if it took up 2 slots and required GigFolder1 to use.

[Polaris]

Blue gives Shadow Style, which replaces your charged buster with a short-duration Invisible effect. Less customization available as it only kicks out a few programs and you can't get your charge buster back while using it.
White has Ground Style, which allows for terrain modification, better for customization. Ground has a crack-panel effect inherent to the charged buster, cracking all panels affected by the charge shot (all spaces covered by the flamethrower; the two spaces where bubbler foams; any space the zap-ring impacts something; and any space the tornado contacts gets destroyed from it's multi-hit).

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Blue has Folder Back, which returns all chips to the folder then prompts chip selection (which also means everything gets shuffled, so clogs the "flow" of your folder going into combos; total crutch chip).
White has Navi Recycle, which reuses the last Navi chip used by yourself (Including Bass and Serenade) along with all attack modifier chips on it. (Better for that "flow" since your folder isn't getting shuffled).

Blue has Bass+, 550 damage to one column, one-hit only.
White has Bass, 90 damage per shot, 15 shots, averaging 5 per row, 450 damage with no upgrades. Bass can exceed the damage of Bass+ with Atk+ chips, but fires along rows which can be blocked by Rock Cube, Rook, etc. reducing actual hits.

Blue gives Dark Aura; 300 defense aura, gone after it's timer runs out, or if Northwind is played.
White has Serenade, which *can* hit over 3k damage.

Blue has Delta Ray Edge, 220 damage per slash, requires precise input for additional hits up-to 3 total (660 damage total); very fickle.
White has Balance: cuts all health in half with no button gimmicks (a proverbial double-edged sword though).

Blue has Alpha Omega, 500 damage rocket in a 3x3 area from impact, one-hit only.
White has Alpha Sigma, 50 damage per hit, 16 hits for central row, 8 hits each for flanking rows. With no upgrades: 800 damage. With even *one* Atk+10: 960 damage.

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Blue has Bowl Man.
White has Mist Man.

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Blue is more defensive: Shadow Style (a little redundant with Shield Style), Dark Aura, Folder Back...
White is more strategic: Ground Style (more options for terrain advantage), Multi-hit Giga Chips, Navi Recycle (better than it's given credit for)...
Blue only has one *actual* advantage over White, and that's the optional boss: Punk (who has no reward if I remember right). Everything else is a matter of preference.

[CrashmanX]

Originally posted by DarkMachine:

Because MMBN3 Blue is actually just the localized version of the original Rockman EXE 3 Black in Japan which was the re-release of Rockman EXE 3 or MMBN3 White for markets outside of Japan. MMBN3 Blue/Rockman EXE 3 Black is the updated and enhanced "definitive version" of the third mainline Battle Network game.

So for consumers outside of a Japan whom are not aware, they were actually buying the inferior version of MMBN3 if they choose to get MMBN3 White when it was first released on the GBA system.

I believe for BN B/W it was more like US's Red/Blue of Pokemon. The US versions of Red and Blue are based on the JP versions of Blue. The original JP Red and Green had bugs and a other problems with Blue being the "Updated" version. The US released Blue/Red based on the JP Blue version.

For BN B/W it was the same way with the US. The US White and Blue are the same as the JP "Black" version but with version differences re-created and all fixes applied.

[Drakodan]

Originally posted by Polaris:

:diamond: Blue has Folder Back, which returns all chips to the folder then prompts chip selection (which also means everything gets shuffled, so clogs the "flow" of your folder going into combos; total crutch chip).

I wish I had a way to express how simply *wrong* this statement is, but I really don't.

Before I go any further, I do want to make one thing absolutely clear: My commentary on what is "good/bad" in this game is filtered very heavily through the lens of viability in PVP. The reason for this is because the ingame challenges don't offer much of a challenge at all when using a strong folder setup, you just blow through all the bosses. If you're looking to just kill Beta Navis/Serenade/BassGS/whatever, use whatever folder setup you feel works! Because they do all work.

However, if you're someone who is interested in checking out the PVP after playing the ingame content and wants to compete, it is a simple fact that BN3 White is *not viable* as it does not have FolderBack. "Clogs folder flow"? What does that even mean?? With FullCust regged and Custom5 in the NaviCust, you're drawing 1/3rd of your folder on the first turn. If you don't like what you get, you use FullCust to throw your first hand and go back to the Custom Screen, now you've seen half your total folder. Any time you pop FolderBack, straight back to the Custom Screen and oh, there's your FullCust again! Start the process over.

By contrast, the other player on White version has 30 chips to use TOTAL, and if you pop defensive chips like Invis/Mole/Shadow to bypass most of their damage, they have absolutely nothing to hit you with after a few turns. Anybody with any amount of experience in an established TCG would be able to tell you that a card that recurs all of your resources and allows you to instantly draw 10 whilst being impossible for the opponent to interact with/interrupt/negate is *disgustingly overpowered*, and that's what FolderBack does. You pop it at the end of whatever hand you were playing, it doesn't interfere with you getting to anything.

That's not even to mention that folder slots are not created equal. You want to reach a particular chip more consistently? Sort it towards the top of your folder, in slots 2-6. Don't have to worry about bottom-decking your win condition when the game gives you it at a higher probability.

TL;DR if you're playing these games casually/just doing ingame content, play whichever you want. It really doesn't matter. But if you want to play "serious PVP", you are setting yourself up for failure by playing BN3 White.

[Polaris]

Originally posted by Drakodan:

Originally posted by Polaris:

Blue has Folder Back, which returns all chips to the folder then prompts chip selection (which also means everything gets shuffled, so clogs the "flow" of your folder going into combos; total crutch chip).

I wish I had a way to express how simply *wrong* this statement is, but I really don't.

Before I go any further, I do want to make one thing absolutely clear: My commentary on what is "good/bad" in this game is filtered very heavily through the lens of viability in PVP.

Stopped reading here. PvP is a side-show in these games. Then there's the favor-ability of many to go into Network 6 for PvP. Your Folder Back chip recycles, shuffles, then forces a new hand. You have to contend with the negatives, as well as the positives, unlike the cherry picking you attempt to do by looking at the negatives of Navi Recycle but only the positives of Folder Back.

Oh, look, I had a way to express how simply *wrong* your statement was. Cheers!

[Drakodan]

There is no negative to a second FullCust that also recurs all of your resources, when you can soft-manipulate what you draw.

[Polaris]

Originally posted by Drakodan:

There is no negative to a second FullCust that also recurs all of your resources, when you can soft-manipulate what you draw.

Look up the word "dilution" some time.
You get no more responses from me as you can't be honest nor taken seriously. Cya.

[Khelder]

Originally posted by Polaris:

Originally posted by Drakodan:

There is no negative to a second FullCust that also recurs all of your resources, when you can soft-manipulate what you draw.

Look up the word "dilution" some time.
You get no more responses from me as you can't be honest nor taken seriously. Cya.

It's only "dilution" if you've put worthless chips in your folder. A well-built folder should allow you to build a powerful turn from almost any 10 randomly selected chips in your hand.

i.e. adding water to your beer dilutes it. But adding beer to your beer is just a top-up, and nothing gets diluted.

[HeraldOfOpera]

And obviously, you don't put worthless chips in your folder. (That said, there is the point that PvP only really exists in BN6).