Denuvo's back and we all fell for it

[TheMAM]

We complained about Sonic Mania having Denuvo software enough that SEGA removed it. Big win for us, right?

Except everyone was fangasming so hard about how GREAT Sonic Frontiers was that we completely ignored the Denuvo that came with it. Now it's in Sonic Origins and future Sonic games to come.

The general public's short attention spans are truly our undoing.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

Messaggio originale di funewchie:

So... you say it doesn't need protection against piracy... then turn right around and advise pirating?
That's the very kind of thing they have to add protection for.

He's saying it doesn't work as it's like shutting the barn door after all the cows got out. Also, the used market isn't piracy. I know some companies did compare it to that, but there's this thing called the First Sale Doctrine that makes the secondhand market legal. What Sega should have done was add the older versions to the accounts of anyone that buys the Steam version of Origins so they'd have more incentive to buy it over tracking down a used PS2 disc and an optical drive to insert it into your PC.

[xxpillowhugxx]

LMAO the kid with the the sonic profile picture is defending modern SEGA and denuvo. absolutely hysterical and not surprising. All I know is that I'm looking forward to buying it at an extremely deep discount through 'completely' legal means if and when denuvo is removed, maybe even some more bug fixes while they're at it. In any case, thanks for beta testing paypiggies!

also sonic 3 a.i.r > this slop

[Kittentheboss]

Messaggio originale di funewchie:

Messaggio originale di Kittentheboss:

Allow me to counter this logic. For new games this makes sense but this?
Naw I'm sure no company would be stupid enough to re-release games and package it with DRM without considering how useless it would be? Like there is never such a thing as "Not worth pirating".

1) The game roms have been out for decades.. unprotected... and less broken than this heap of garbage.
2) They shot themselves in the foot by delisting the megadrive sonics and cd on the steam store.
3) Sega clearly doesn't give a damn about their dev team or their product.

It's not like you can bypass PC DRM completely by using emulators.
My advise? Buy a cheap ps2 sonic mega collection plus for 10-20 bucks then rip it and emulate it. That would be more stable and it would be loads better than even seeing the store page for origins.

So... you say it doesn't need protection against piracy... then turn right around and advise pirating?
That's the very kind of thing they have to add protection for.

But thank you for illustrating why Denuvo must be added.

Also:
1) Theft has no expiration date.
2) Sega owns these games, they have every right to list or de-list as they see fit.
3) Considering all the videos, animations, art, and so forth they took time to add to this, they clearly do care. However, they're not going to just hand their product over to you for free. Deal with it.

Messaggio originale di Deadpool:

Denuvo does not affect anyone with good PCs.

Fact.

The people that steal games are people that can't afford PCs. This is where their justification comes in to steal what they can't afford.

Fact.

Exactly.
Well said.

It's not piracy if you rip your own games. You don't realize that there is a market for DRM free games. Go to GOG for once in your life. You can buy Cyberpunk 2077 DRM free right now. or check the list on r/crackwatch. Understand what is high priority in the cracking scene, Educate yourself on this matter for once instead of thinking you have all the answers. As i said before No one is going to crack the pc version because it can be bypassed by emulating the console ports or even the decade old megadrive roms. There is no point to having denuvo added if it does ♥♥♥♥ all nothing. The point is not encouraging piracy but dis-encouraging bad business practices that demands piracy/punishes paying customers. But as i've said before don't pirate this game. Don't even buy it until these issues are resolved. It's terrible and belongs in the garbage for now.

Fun fact, Denuvo affects every pc. You will always get performance loss regardless of how good your specs are. It may be the creators choice to do that but it's also the community's job to push back on this behavior otherwise they will just keep getting away with it and not only will no change be enacted by the company but something far worse might be done (Library Deletion). The devs have passion but SEGA is a different ball game. Like, It's ok if you don't care about the state gaming industry. Just don't drag everyone down that does. Judging by the mixed reviews i'd say not all is lost.

Ending this little argument i just want to say how disappointed i am in the sonic community when i see people like this because the creators of sonic mania (Christian Whitehead) were hired by SEGA after infringing on their rights back in the day.
I hope one day we can bring back the old slogan "Genesis does what Nintendon't"

[Tanoomba]

Messaggio originale di Kittentheboss:

Fun fact, Denuvo affects every pc. You will always get performance loss regardless of how good your specs are.

This isn't true at all.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

Messaggio originale di Tanoomba:

Messaggio originale di Kittentheboss:

Fun fact, Denuvo affects every pc. You will always get performance loss regardless of how good your specs are.

This isn't true at all.

No, let's look at it logically. To run the checks and encryption, it adds more work for the PC to do. In addition, it bloats up the exe file size, so whatever was used to implement Denuvo could have been used for music, pdf files, wallpapers/avatars, etc.

[Kittentheboss]

Messaggio originale di Tanoomba:

Messaggio originale di Kittentheboss:

Fun fact, Denuvo affects every pc. You will always get performance loss regardless of how good your specs are.

This isn't true at all.

Sadly it is. Weather or not it is noticeable is down to your pc but that performance gain is still there with the cracked copy. If it's a beast pc we're talking about mabey 0.03-0.10 increase. It's mostly noticeable on load times though but still the point remains. Same thing with EAC. On this game it's hard to say if it is even noticable but in my eyes the argument still stands

BenchmarkSauce;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y_bab5wtHY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_D_scIVYok
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJjls6BYJs

[Tanoomba]

Messaggio originale di Ness_and_Sonic:

No, let's look at it logically. To run the checks and encryption, it adds more work for the PC to do. In addition, it bloats up the exe file size, so whatever was used to implement Denuvo could have been used for music, pdf files, wallpapers/avatars, etc.

Let's look at it even more logically. I play games that have Denuvo, and there is no effect on how they run.

[NBOX21]

Messaggio originale di Kittentheboss:

I hope one day we can bring back the old slogan "Genesis does what Nintendon't"

The sad part is: despite everything this collection gets wrong, this statement is still true.

Think about it - Nintendo put out a Super Mario 3D "All Stars" Collection a couple of years ago which completely missed the point of the "All Stars" brand to begin with considering they only ported the old games instead of remaking them, made them exclusively for the Switch, only included Galaxy 1 and not Galaxy 2, charged full retail price for it and only made it available for a limited time.

SEGA, on the other hand, at least bothered to remaster the games instead of just porting them (except the Game Gear games), released them on all platforms instead of just the Switch, included Sonic CD as well as the main trilogy, charged less money for it than Frontiers and (for the time being) don't have a cut-off date to buy them.

Though that still doesn't change the fact that it's a complete rip-off compared to what we got in previous Sonic collections (e.g. MC+ being way cheaper even when it came out and released with more games) as well as other collections that came out not too long ago (e.g. Crash N. Sane Trilogy and Spyro Reignited Trilogy, both of which remade three 3D platformers for around the same price as this).

It's not like you can bypass PC DRM completely by using emulators.
My advice? Buy a cheap ps2 sonic mega collection plus for 10-20 bucks then rip it and emulate it. That would be more stable and it would be loads better than even seeing the store page for origins.

Even that's not necessary in 2023. If you have a DVD drive for your computer, you can buy the Sonic PC Collection for fairly cheap online and get the PC version of Sonic Mega Collection Plus, as well as three other games, in the same bundle for about half the price of this. All of which have no DRM whatsoever and work fine on modern computers.

Messaggio originale di funewchie:

Sega owns these games, they have every right to list or de-list as they see fit.

Even if that were true, we as customers have every right to criticise SEGA's decisions on this as we don't want them to get away with or encourage bad practices that give us less value for our money (or in this case, making an effort to erase or change history).

However, they're not going to just hand their product over to you for free.

Good, because that isn't and was never the point anyone here was trying to make to begin with except you. It's not about wanting something for free - it's about getting as much value for the money we spend as possible, and the absolute best products possible with that money.

Messaggio originale di Ness_and_Sonic:

Messaggio originale di funewchie:

So... you say it doesn't need protection against piracy... then turn right around and advise pirating?
That's the very kind of thing they have to add protection for.

He's saying it doesn't work as it's like shutting the barn door after all the cows got out. Also, the used market isn't piracy. I know some companies did compare it to that, but there's this thing called the First Sale Doctrine that makes the secondhand market legal.

Heck, there was even one indie developer (Mike Rose I think it was) who even straight up came out and said that if people won't or can't afford to buy a brand new copy of his own game, he'd prefer they pirate it instead of buying second-hand keys from G2A seeing as devs and companies don't make money either way, and due to G2A's shady business practices, he'd rather not see them make money either.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

Messaggio originale di Tanoomba:

Let's look at it even more logically. I play games that have Denuvo, and there is no effect on how they run.

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Example, the electrical wiring inside the walls of your building. Besides, if you know the laws of thermodynamics, energy/matter can't be created nor destroyed, just converted to another form. So in order for Denuvo to be an anti-piracy measure, it would need access to additional resources, otherwise it would just be a placebo.

[Kittentheboss]

Messaggio originale di NBOX21:

Messaggio originale di Kittentheboss:

I hope one day we can bring back the old slogan "Genesis does what Nintendon't"

The sad part is: despite everything this collection gets wrong, this statement is still true.

Think about it - Nintendo put out a Super Mario 3D "All Stars" Collection a couple of years ago which completely missed the point of the "All Stars" brand to begin with considering they only ported the old games instead of remaking them, made them exclusively for the Switch, only included Galaxy 1 and not Galaxy 2, charged full retail price for it and only made it available for a limited time.

SEGA, on the other hand, at least bothered to remaster the games instead of just porting them (except the Game Gear games), released them on all platforms instead of just the Switch, included Sonic CD as well as the main trilogy, charged less money for it than Frontiers and (for the time being) don't have a cut-off date to buy them.

Though that still doesn't change the fact that it's a complete rip-off compared to what we got in previous Sonic collections (e.g. MC+ being way cheaper even when it came out and released with more games) as well as other collections that came out not too long ago (e.g. Crash N. Sane Trilogy and Spyro Reignited Trilogy, both of which remade three 3D platformers for around the same price as this).

It's not like you can bypass PC DRM completely by using emulators.
My advice? Buy a cheap ps2 sonic mega collection plus for 10-20 bucks then rip it and emulate it. That would be more stable and it would be loads better than even seeing the store page for origins.

Even that's not necessary in 2023. If you have a DVD drive for your computer, you can buy the Sonic PC Collection for fairly cheap online and get the PC version of Sonic Mega Collection Plus, as well as three other games, in the same bundle for about half the price of this. All of which have no DRM whatsoever and work fine on modern computers.

Messaggio originale di funewchie:

Sega owns these games, they have every right to list or de-list as they see fit.

Even if that were true, we as customers have every right to criticise SEGA's decisions on this as we don't want them to get away with or encourage bad practices that give us less value for our money (or in this case, making an effort to erase or change history).

However, they're not going to just hand their product over to you for free.

Good, because that isn't and was never the point anyone here was trying to make to begin with except you. It's not about wanting something for free - it's about getting as much value for the money we spend as possible, and the absolute best products possible with that money.

Messaggio originale di Ness_and_Sonic:

He's saying it doesn't work as it's like shutting the barn door after all the cows got out. Also, the used market isn't piracy. I know some companies did compare it to that, but there's this thing called the First Sale Doctrine that makes the secondhand market legal.

Heck, there was even one indie developer (Mike Rose I think it was) who even straight up came out and said that if people won't or can't afford to buy a brand new copy of his own game, he'd prefer they pirate it instead of buying second-hand keys from G2A seeing as devs and companies don't make money either way, and due to G2A's shady business practices, he'd rather not see them make money either.

Fair enough, however there is that lingering fear that some companies slip further down the rabbit hole. Which is why i'm so hard on the publisher to begin with. SEGA is on the edge and i fear that they will get worse as time goes on unless a public outcry occurs. Not saying we should all panic just not be as blissfully ignorant as the nintendo fanbase. It's never to late to leave neverland and be welcomed back to reality.

All prices i saw online made me think the ps2 version was cheaper (Around $10 Used) so i used it as an example. Not really as fact but it could do either way. but sega's made so many re-releases they slip through my peripheral vision.

I do remember seeing that article. Which is why i only use key sites for delisted games.

Sorry for the poor formating. I need to git gud at steam.

[Tanoomba]

Messaggio originale di Ness_and_Sonic:

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If I can't see the effect, then the "effect" is irrelevant.

[Ness_and_Sonic]

Messaggio originale di Tanoomba:

Messaggio originale di Ness_and_Sonic:

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If I can't see the effect, then the "effect" is irrelevant.

Right, so wasted hard drive space is irrelevant? Each game with it adds up. Nix the Paradox Relic is one example of game that could have been installed with just one of game's wasted space, but with each one that uses it, more bigger games can be installed in that wasted space instead had it not been used for Denuvo.

[Benjeta]

Messaggio originale di Tanoomba:

Messaggio originale di Ness_and_Sonic:

Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

If I can't see the effect, then the "effect" is irrelevant.

LMAO
"I can't see effect so it does not exist ! DUH !"
"I can't smell my fart so when anybody fart it don't smell ! DUH !"
"I can't think about cause and probality because I can't tell a difference nor check if It's true on other hardware ! DUH !"
"But I can 100% tell that I'm right ! DUH !"

Anything on top of anything will produce weight right ?
When you'll learn that only a tiny tiny bit can cause hideous damage to anything you'll be in age to argue the subject you don't tunderstand.
wth

[Tanoomba]

Messaggio originale di Benjeta:

When you'll learn that only a tiny tiny bit can cause hideous damage to anything you'll be in age to argue the subject you don't tunderstand.

I'm telling you, there is no "hideous damage". If there's no noticeable difference than you're just arguing on principle. Which is fine, but not everyone shares your principles.

[Benjeta]

Dude, that's not how you correct something !
Like a monkey who cover his eyes.
And even if you are not subject of irritation to that style of DRM...

Wait, in fact you are right.
Now I see it.
You're right, principles.
You can litteraly play the game on anything for nothing, some peoples bought the game
knowing that all of them are in some compilation everywhere, because of principles and even support.
And now they are in worst case than the ones who can and will c****** it when time has come...

You're right... principle only apply to the one who let everything smack them.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ?

Btw, why do you take only the last part of my post ?
Did you just realize ???

Stop arguing, It's for yourself.
You don't own anything to big corporation, you are not a shareholder and visibly not an expert on anything touching a computer, not even a freaking game.

Next time will be typo ?
You are a troll or you like conflict dude.