<BUG REPORT> Does anyone else on Steam play the Blue Spheres minigame for Sonic 3 and Knuckles?

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keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Mar 12 @ 1:39am

<BUG REPORT> Does anyone else on Steam play the Blue Spheres minigame for Sonic 3 and Knuckles?

Either the Classic mode, or New Blue Spheres.

Because I seem to be the only one in the world, willing to comment on the fact that there's a minor bug in both of them, whereby the ring count to get a Perfect in a level is sometimes:

A. Too high, meaning you can't collect enough Rings to get Perfect, no matter what you do

OR

B. Too low, meaning you get Perfect when there are still Rings left to collect, even though getting Perfect is supposed to mean you collected all Rings that were possible to collect in the level

Note that this bug does not affect the Special Stages in the full S3&K game, as those all have the correct ring count for Perfect. The bug only affects some of the levels in Classic BS or New BS, not all of them.

Now whereas example B is nothing but beneficial to the player, example B is the complete opposite. Meaning that in some stages it's impossible to advance 10 levels through either of these modes. Even though that is literally the only benefit of a Perfect when playing them!

Am I really the only S3&K fan who's noticed this bug and is bothered by it? Hard to believe, but right now it sure seems like it. Because I find no other reference to it on the Internet, not even on a social media platform like Reddit. Y'know, places where people like to complain about everything in the world!

Well... apparently not quite everything. <sigh>

I swear to God I noticed the same bug in Blue Spheres mode on Sonic Mania as well, and once again... that didn't affect the Bonus Stages in the main game, just the standalone minigame which once again had two different modes (Classic and Mania).

I doubt that Taxman and Stealth intended either of these behaviours. But regarding the ring count being too low (Example B), I suspect that Stealth's revamp of the "sphere conversion algorithm", meaning the code that turns blue and red spheres into rings, might be at least part of the issue in both Origins and Mania. Because it's able to convert blue spheres that the original Blue Sphere couldn't (the algorithm did the check for the "inside" of the red sphere perimeter differently). If it doesn't though, I have no idea what else might be contributing to the problem. <shrug>

Last edited by keeperofcastlegreydusk; Mar 25 @ 9:26am

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Showing 1-8 of 8 comments

Tanoomba

Mar 12 @ 3:30am

I don't know about the second scenario, but the first scenario might be explained by not "enclosing" all possible blue spheres in red spheres instead of collecting them directly. Sometimes you might have to "trace" a plus-formation instead of a simple rectangle, or you might have to collect only two sides of a square-shaped formation if the other two sides are already enclosed by red spheres. One also has to be careful to leave individual blue spheres to last, so as to avoid revealing rings with the last blue spheres that can't be picked up.

Last edited by Tanoomba; Mar 12 @ 4:34am

keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Mar 13 @ 5:11pm

Wow, I didn't expect to get a reply from another player! I'm looking around right now to see if I can find some pictures or something, that show Example A and B. If I find something, I'll try to find a way to link to them here. :o

keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Mar 13 @ 5:25pm

Last edited by keeperofcastlegreydusk; Mar 13 @ 7:06pm

keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Mar 13 @ 5:48pm

Now, regarding Example B, I think we can safely ignore that for now. It's a bug that doesn't harm the player in any way, shape or form, because it just means there are more Rings to collect than is needed for Perfect. So if it never gets fixed, it doesn't really matter.

I could Screenshot the example ingame, but I'd have to post the pictures on an image website like Imgur, in order to show them here. Can't post them directly to Steam to display in a Discussion thread, as far as I know. :o

As for Example A, though...

I have read through your comment a few times, to make sure I understand what you said. I have been playing Blue Sphere as a standalone minigame, since the old days of Lock-On S1 & S3K, which should give you an idea of what a weirdo I am. XD

So, yes. Order of collecting blue spheres does matter a lot, when it comes to getting Perfect.

I guess I can say I'm somewhat familiar with tracing blue spheres in such a way, as to maximize the number of Spheres converted to Rings. Which in the original game, was necessary, because the Ring Count was always the maximum amount possible for every chunk. As the devs intended. Amazing that they cared enough to check back then, it's just an optional minigame. That not everybody knew about. :o

However, it's always possible that in some cases I don't trace correctly, and have to restart or just continue on and forget it. Even now.

Last edited by keeperofcastlegreydusk; Mar 15 @ 6:49am

keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Mar 13 @ 5:56pm

There are at least 2 chunks in New Blue Spheres, that follow Example A. Which are the ones labelled 055 and 079 in the links I posted above. None of the chunks in Classic Blue Sphere give me the problem of Example A, because they're from the original Lock-On S1/S3K mode, and work the same way as before. Some of them exhibit Example B, but that doesn't stop the player from getting Perfect, so... <shrug>

I really doubt there is any way to get more than 48 Rings in Chunk 079, as the intended way to trace the spheres is marked with green spheres that need to be touched twice. But if you do that, the remaining spheres cannot be converted to Rings by any means.

Spheres only get converted to Rings under the following two conditions:

1. The code finds a pattern of reds that goes around in a perimeter, starting and ending in the same position as the first red sphere that was marked. The algorithm always marks the last sphere touched by the player first, and if it returns to the coordinates of that sphere at any time, it knows there is a valid perimeter and goes on to check condition 2

2. There is at least one blue inside the perimeter of reds

In the case of that chunk, I suspect the Ring Count might be set as double the maximum amount of possible Rings, meaning that the value for Ring Count on that chunk is somehow being added twice, to the total amount for the whole level. But I'm not 100% sure about that.

As for Chunk 055, there's a bit in the bottom left corner, with 5 red spheres in a diagonal line, and 8 blue spheres on each side of it for a total of 16. It may be that the Ring Count for that entire chunk expects you to convert all 16 blues and 1 of the reds, in that particular part. If it does, that's 17 Rings plus whatever the rest of the chunk can give you, which is 34. So in total for Chunk 055, the Ring Count might be 51, and I can only get 43.

Any ideas about how to get that bottom-left part to give you 17 Rings? <EDIT> I'm playing New Blue Spheres now, to find at least 1 level with Chunk 055 in it, and I'll give you the password for one as soon as I find it. :o

Those are the only two chunks I've had this problem with, that I can recall. But it's possible I might see it on other chunks someday. Unlikely, but possible.

If anything, Example B seems to happen a lot more frequently than Example A. Which sticks out like a sore thumb, but is not a problem. <shrug>

Last edited by keeperofcastlegreydusk; Apr 4 @ 5:12pm

keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Mar 13 @ 8:00pm

Level 19 is the earliest level I found, using Chunk 055. The passcode for it is:

1360 7331 7879

For some reason the Ring Count for that chunk is listed as 47! <shrug>

I'll keep trying to get more than 9 rings out of that bottom-left bit...

<EDIT> Ah well. I still couldn't find a way... :o

Last edited by keeperofcastlegreydusk; Mar 14 @ 4:35am

keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Mar 13 @ 8:34pm

And just for the sake of thoroughness, Level 27 is the earliest level I found, using Chunk 079. The passcode for that is:

4466 1318 7508

Now I'm really confused... despite what I said before, the Ring Count for that chunk is listed as 72, not 96 as I was expecting!

Huh? How is that so far off the maximum amount, without being something logical?! Jesus Christ... -_-

<EDIT> I REALLY doubt Example A is a mistake that Stealth would've made. Example B might be an unintended consequence of the new "sphere conversion algorithm" also used in Sonic Mania, but Example A has nothing to do with that.

<EDIT> Wow. I didn't expect to find the 2 chunks in levels earlier than 100 at the very least. Alright, that's enough for now. :o

Last edited by keeperofcastlegreydusk; Apr 4 @ 5:12pm

keeperofcastlegreydusk has Sonic Origins

Apr 4 @ 8:25pm

Well, for a while I thought I wouldn't find any more problem chunks. But looks like maybe Chunk 093 is also a problem, it says there are 59 Rings to collect, but I can only get 54.

Not like anyone's in a rush to check this problem along with me, though. <sigh>

How the hell did New Blue Spheres get screwed up this badly? I know it's only an optional minigame, but God...

Last edited by keeperofcastlegreydusk; Apr 4 @ 8:35pm

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Sonic Origins > General Discussions > Topic Details

Date Posted: Mar 12 @ 1:39am

Posts: 8