How can we save Sonic from the hands of SEGA?

[Spectre]

it's 100% clear now that SEGA does not deserve Sonic, there are millions of sonic fans world wide under the mercy of old, out of touch and incompetent SEGA executives and designers. what can we do to pressure SEGA to just get profit from future games, but outsource the development entirely to other studios and stay the hell away from anything that has to do with design?

[Derik-For-Real]

I agree, Sega does not deserve to produce sonic classic games nd modern ones, they clearly are incompetent at this point to screw stuff up. Origins looks so bad, very poor pc port with lack of content compared to older sonic collection games. They cut huge corners nd think they deserve your premium check.

Sonic Frontiers looks death, that game will fail hard, the presentation was just not convincing, even though using unreal engine 5, they cant even build an exciting detailed world.

Im not gonna lie, this nonsense needs to stop, people should stop buying sonic origin, otherwise they keep screwing around.

[Naoya]

Sadly, the old ass execs of SEGA are still prideful as hell. I mean, these are the same people who actively wanted Sonic Mania to fail, and Sonic Forces to succeed, just to prove that only they can do Sonic right.

[CrowRising]

Outsourcing isn't a good solution either. A number of Sonic's more controversial titles are a result of outsourcing, such as when they outsourced the Sonic Advance and Rush series to DIMPS, Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric to BigRedButton, and more recently Sonic Colors Ultimate to Blind Squirrel Games. I say controversial because you will find many people who hate these titles and consider them some of the lowest points of the franchise, while you will also find many who are more indifferent or who even actually love these games. Sonic's highest points were from SEGA didn't outsource. The only real exception to this is Mania, which gets nearly universal praise.

Rather than pressuring them to outsource, a better solution is to pressure them to actually care about the franchise again. Sonic's highest points are from when SEGA was at the wheel, but took the time to put proper love and care into the franchise. Sonic 1-3&K, Sonic Adventure and Adventure 2, Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations, these were all developed by SEGA.

They need to hire writers and developers who have the experience and passion to make these games great, form a new Sonic Team who will take the time to make these games great without crunch culture and other crazy corporate behavior. I'd even go so far as to say there should be two teams. One composed of a team producing future Classic Sonic titles, as well as 2D Modern Sonic titles similar to the Advance series, and the other working on the major new Modern Sonic releases, taking the time they need to really make the games great.

[Tsuki Zero]

Originally posted by veryepic:

they need to make more classic sonic games like sonic mania

That's actually a major cause of the problem: Classic Sonic Fans.

A more realistic solution would be to broaden the horizons to make new ideas more popular to the point they make it into big gaming news sites, that will catch the attention of the execs and show them they weren't getting it at all.

[Jackobo Le Chocobo]

To be honest, if the quality level is the same level for Sonic Frontiers, i will not try to pre-order the game this time.

And for the case of Sonic Origins, it is not a good move for a game released in the birthday date of the character that have many issues. So sad for a birthday celebration of a mascot of a company.

[Tsuki Zero]

Originally posted by Jackobo Tori:

To be honest, if the quality level is the same level for Sonic Frontiers, i will not try to pre-order the game this time.

And for the case of Sonic Origins, it is not a good move for a game released in the birthday date of the character that have many issues. So sad for a birthday celebration of a mascot of a company.

Not the first time however (06 and Genesis (GBA)).

[Duckilous]

Originally posted by CrowRising:

Outsourcing isn't a good solution either. A number of Sonic's more controversial titles are a result of outsourcing, such as when they outsourced the Sonic Advance and Rush series to DIMPS, I say controversial because you will find many people who hate these titles and consider them some of the lowest points of the franchise, while you will also find many who are more indifferent or who even actually love these games.

But I don't even see these two series being hated as much at all. It's more like they're overlooked because they're handheld titles but I don't see many people calling them "bad".

[Owlet VII]

Originally posted by Derik-For-Real:

Sonic Frontiers looks death, that game will fail hard, the presentation was just not convincing, even though using unreal engine 5, they cant even build an exciting detailed world.

Frontiers runs on Hedgehog Engine 2.

[Tsuki Zero]

Originally posted by CrowRising:

Outsourcing isn't a good solution either. A number of Sonic's more controversial titles are a result of outsourcing, such as when they outsourced the Sonic Advance and Rush series to DIMPS,

INTERESTINGLY
The people who went to form DIMPS worked on Sonic Pocket Adventure, pretty much a mashup port for the Neo Geo Pocket Color. So they DO have more experience than people deem.

Sonic Advance and Rush are still wildly acclaimed, even by some of the fans of Classic Sonic. Plus it gets Sonic right, by giving more emphasis on the speed gameplay in contrast to the usual niche of 2D Sonic that was to toss obstacles and speed bumps every one second starting second Zone.

[CrowRising]

Originally posted by Duckilous:

But I don't even see these two series being hated as much at all. It's more like they're overlooked because they're handheld titles but I don't see many people calling them "bad".

Originally posted by Tsuki Zero:

INTERESTINGLY
The people who went to form DIMPS worked on Sonic Pocket Adventure, pretty much a mashup port for the Neo Geo Pocket Color. So they DO have more experience than people deem.

Sonic Advance and Rush are still wildly acclaimed, even by some of the fans of Classic Sonic. Plus it gets Sonic right, by giving more emphasis on the speed gameplay in contrast to the usual niche of 2D Sonic that was to toss obstacles and speed bumps every one second starting second Zone.

As someone who grew up with Sonic Advance 1-3 and Rush Adventure, I happen to hold the games in high regard myself. However, the controversy around them has always existed, and should they get any form or re-release the same controversy is bound to crop back up again. The games are far from perfect. Their physics, level design, methods of getting into special stages, etc. are all points of contention that people have with them. I love the games despite these problems, but I have known quite a few people who hated the games for them.

The fact of the matter is that beyond our nostalgia goggles, these games are far from perfect. Their music and visual style holds them up a lot. Personally, I'd really love to see them get remasters that iron out these issues to create more definitive versions, but I won't go into that too much because it's off point what the thread is about.

The fact of the matter is that SEGA at their best have a better track record than Outsourcing. We need to find a way to convince SEGA to care again, instead of just milking the series with minimal effort. I feel that the best way to do that would be for a few new teams to be formed specifically for the production of Sonic games composed of people who have the passion, talent, and know how to make the games a reality.

[Naoya]

Originally posted by Tsuki Zero:

Originally posted by veryepic:

they need to make more classic sonic games like sonic mania

That's actually a major cause of the problem: Classic Sonic Fans.

A more realistic solution would be to broaden the horizons to make new ideas more popular to the point they make it into big gaming news sites, that will catch the attention of the execs and show them they weren't getting it at all.

I think the problem is moreso that lots of modern Sonic games are rushed or badly made. Most old Sonic fans I know, myself included, love the good games like Sonic Adventure, Sonic Unleashed day stages, Sonic Generations, Sonic Colors, what have you. If they made Sonic 2 or Sonic 3&K quality 3D games, I would have no problem with them. But then you get titles like Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Heroes, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic 06, Sonic Lost Worlds and Sonic Forces.

Sadly, Sonic has a tendency to not handle changes very well as a series, so it's always stumbled as much as it's succeeded. What SEGA actually needs to do is give the devs time to develop good, high quality products, instead of always hamstringing them at every turn with unrealistic deadlines and sudden mid-development changes.

[ForumBot3000™® 🤖👍✅]

Sonic doesn't need saving he needs our financial support!

[Tsuki Zero]

Originally posted by CrowRising:

However, the controversy around them has always existed, and should they get any form or re-release the same controversy is bound to crop back up again. The games are far from perfect. Their physics, level design, methods of getting into special stages, etc. are all points of contention that people have with them. I love the games despite these problems, but I have known quite a few people who hated the games for them.

The fact of the matter is that beyond our nostalgia goggles, these games are far from perfect. Their music and visual style holds them up a lot. Personally, I'd really love to see them get remasters that iron out these issues to create more definitive versions, but I won't go into that too much because it's off point what the thread is about.

Counterpoint:
The physics are fine. want to see how bad physics can be? Watch TAS or some really fast non-TAS speedruns of Sonic 1 to 3 and CD. For one, GHZ Act 3 you can pretty much skip two thirds OR MORE of the stage by a well placed high-speed jump and bouncing on badnicks. Or remember how outrunning the camera was possible and killed the player.

Level Design is not an issue with DIMPS games really. Let's think back at Marble Zone, Carnival Night Zone (and its infamous Barrel of Doom that no one had the foggiest on how to get through before the days of the internet), Marble Garden Zone, Sandopolis Zone. In other words, Level Design has always been an issue, DIMPS streamlined it but it still persisted to a (lesser) degree.

Partial counterpoint:
The Special Stages things however I do agree are BS to get in in Advance, but Rush makes it easier by placing the Special Stage bars in multiple places and Colors eliminates the issue by simply requiring enough rings at the end of an act.. The problem with Advance is how off the path they are in 1 and 2, and 3 requires finding Chao which are small and require a guide (pretty much).

Agree:
Nostalgia goggles really prevents many from looking at (sometimes glaring) issues of a multitude of games, and often requires something that addresses the issues for them to realize how bad it was (example: Castlevania SotN uses the Inverted Castle to pad the game, by the time you enter the Inverted Castle you can breeze through it with little to no issue, and Bloodstained RotN had an ability so you could turn your perspective around and reach places you couldn't before; Super Metroid has very floaty jumps, unreliable Wall and Space Jump, and funky acceleration physics that messed with the aim and makes Samus slide all around, specially in water, and Metroid Fusion fixes all those issues (at the expense of removing Sequence Break, which comes back into play with Zero Mission and later). In Sonic games, as a Sonic 3 & Knuckles fan, I say it's what prevents the series from evolving: Sonic Mania was barely different from 3 & Knuckles, if anything it had more stage gimmicks and... That was it.

[CrowRising]

Originally posted by veryepic:

Originally posted by ఆ:

Sonic doesn't need saving he needs our financial support!

what

I've struggled to be able to tell whether that guy is a troll, or just a blind fanboy who supports everything Sonic related no matter what. In either event, it's better to just ignore him at this point to avoid derailing threads.

[Tsuki Zero]

Originally posted by veryepic:

Originally posted by Blocked user:

Sonic doesn't need saving he needs our financial support!

what

Ignore, it's a troll.