Revenge Counter Window Length Changes

[jahmirroy]

I'm hoping others read this so I can get some input on my observation. I haven't gone past the Raditz fight and have just been mucking around in training. I wanted to practice the different counters (screw you super counter, I swear it was easier in BT3). I set both health gauges and skill count bars to max, and set the AI to revenge counter.

I noticed that the window for countering the revenge counter changes from the first to subsequent ones, going something like this:

1. I attack
2. AI gets hit and initiates revenge counter
3. I will then use super counter or revenge counter or super perception
4. AI receives counter and then throws another revenge counter
5. Thing get messy here. A lot of my counters don't seem to engage at this point for some reason.

Playing around, what I noticed is that when the AI throws its first revenge counter, the window to respond is huge. Like ridiculously so. You can input the commands for any of the appropriate counters pretty much immediately after you hit them and before the AI even has a change to gather itself to initiate its revenge counter. Past this part, it seems like the window shrinks to the normal couple of frames, so then the sequence is actually something like:
1. I attack
2, AI gets hit (starting long window for my counter) and initiates revenge counter
3, I have already input super counter
4. AI receives counter and window is the normal couple frame tightness
5. I still suck and can only super counter 2/10 times

I'm still working on getting the timing down for super counter, so I've only been able to super counter the AI's revenge counter 3 times in a row at most. I haven't played BT3 in like 12 years, so I don't remember if this was a thing before, and I wanted to know if anyone else has noticed this.

[jahmirroy]

I have done some further testing, and it appears that the window for countering is not consistent across the board. It feels like the window for "power" attacks (smashes, vanishing, revenge counter, etc) is wider than simple rush attacks. But, the "power" attack window shrinks if it is not the first iteration of it in a combo/counter sequence. For example, I can counter the first z counter easily, but if I counter with my own z counter, and the AI then counters AGAIN with another z counter (its second), the window for me to successfully counter with my SECOND z counter feels much smaller than the first time. I am not sure if this is something that the devs implement for the AI to add difficulty though. This may be the case, but I would need to test this with another human player to be sure.

Would love to hear other's inputs on this.

Edit: Corrected vanishing attack to z counter for specificity.

[Prince Xaine]

Yeah I've noticed pretty much the same thing. It does seem consistent online though.

[jahmirroy]

Originally posted by Prince Xaine:

Yeah I've noticed pretty much the same thing. It does seem consistent online though.

Okay cool, so I'm not crazy. Its definitely making it hard to practice the super counter against the AI. Like I get WHY they would do this for the AI (you know for extra challenge), but its still annoying. Especially when others respond with the git gud crap.

[jahmirroy]

Other things that I have noticed:

1. The special counter animation you get from using super perception against a revenge counter can be initiated if you perfectly guard against the revenge counter. I am playing using classic controls, so I thought that I may have been pressing Y + A at the same time, but I have made sure I was ONLY pressing B (guard button for classic) and it still happens. I couldn't find anything in the Piccolo tutorials that indicated this is a things, which makes me wonder if there is a glitch on the game's part that it treats the classic's guard button as the standard's perception button.

2. Has anyone been able to super counter the sonic sway? I have been trying to see if this is possible but no luck so far. I have been training against the AI with its strategy set to "Guards & Counters" to test this out.

[jahmirroy]

https://youtu.be/a722gpoMvfk

I uploaded a video trying to show what I mean about the counter window length.