No super counter changes LOL

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

game hasnt really been fixed by this when only z counter changed. still gonna be endless back to back super counter over and over and over again.

[Igr1Saiyan [Twitch]]

Bro if im not wrong z counter is super counter lol
alot of people calling it z counter i dont know why but it mean the super counter
So dont worry brother

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

Originally posted by lgr1s:

Bro if im not wrong z counter is super counter lol
alot of people calling it z counter i dont know why but it mean the super counter
So dont worry brother

z counter is the teleport. super counter is when you press up and square or w.e punch is to counter a melee hit or back hit so no.. nothing was fixed. The devs posted that update they know the difference between a z counter and a super counter.

the only good thing we got out of this is that 19 and 20 cant fly up and down forever anymore actually. every other change was kinda dumb. Good for couch 1v1 players ig, they got split screen when a mod already existed to do that.

[KnucklesX2]

People are already making the same mistake as the base game overhyping it. This community doesn't learn and is addicted to hype.

[Joker]

afterimage strike nerf is good but couldve been nerfed harder. there're good changes in this patch, but yes they could've taken more inspiration from the feedback google docs document

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

Originally posted by KnucklesX2:

People are already making the same mistake as the base game overhyping it. This community doesn't learn and is addicted to hype.

thats what I said, 19/20 dash changes also dont matter much because you can still just fly up and down when someone pops sparking with full ki and waste most of it. and I also think the fact that insta sparking only got a number change and no ki sickness is just kinda.. a waste imo

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

Originally posted by Joker:

afterimage strike nerf is good but couldve been nerfed harder. there're good changes in this patch, but yes they could've taken more inspiration from the feedback google docs document

AIS wasnt hard to deal with at all. you just KI spam, grab and counter for a bit and you win the 15 second engagement. I guess having perception reset it is alr of a change but it doesnt matter to people like me who thought AIS was a joke.

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

Honest to god I just want AI fixes for now, most of the players already left and arent coming back. and the ones around now are still a lot of "if i learn new cheese I dont have to learn the game" kinda players

[Joker]

Originally posted by Space Daddy:

Originally posted by Joker:

afterimage strike nerf is good but couldve been nerfed harder. there're good changes in this patch, but yes they could've taken more inspiration from the feedback google docs document

you just KI spam, grab and counter for a bit

this is not engaging counter-play, which is the problem. at least going for backshots is now an option

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

Originally posted by Joker:

Originally posted by Space Daddy:

you just KI spam, grab and counter for a bit

this is not engaging counter-play, which is the problem. at least going for backshots is now an option

and somehow getting one perception and turning it off is? Im sorry but I think you just.. were not very good at the game. Its ok, now you dont have to try so hard they made it easier for you. IMO its pretty engaging because their play style becomes obvious and pretty easy to counter. Ik you dont like that you cant just push punch more but come on.


also my original post says why back shots arent an option now STILL. because super counters werent changed at all, you touch my back and im super countering you end of story. Super counters need to be 2 frames and have a penalty for spamming it and then maybe the game can start to be good.

[Joker]

Originally posted by Space Daddy:

Originally posted by Joker:

this is not engaging counter-play, which is the problem. at least going for backshots is now an option

and somehow getting one perception and turning it off is? Im sorry but I think you just.. were not very good at the game. Its ok, now you dont have to try so hard they made it easier for you. IMO its pretty engaging because their play style becomes obvious and pretty easy to counter. Ik you dont like that you cant just push punch more but come on.


also my original post says why back shots arent an option now STILL. because super counters werent changed at all, you touch my back and im super countering you end of story. Super counters need to be 2 frames and have a penalty for spamming it and then maybe the game can start to be good.

perception turning the buff off isnt really that engaging either because you just press 1 button and that's it, 2 skill counts down the drain. but at least this way, there's actual mix involved, my opponent can't just do a rush chain on me (unless its backshots). my opponent now has to actually think when they're in front of me instead of just being safe from anything i do that's not ki blasts. and if the game bugs out and the opponent turns around when they're receiving backshots, the afterimage strike victim still gets rewarded for outplaying the afterimage strike user now.

it's cheap counter-play, but it's much better than me keeping my distance, turtling, and spamming ki blasts for 15 seconds, don't you think? would you rather just spam ki blasts for 15 seconds instead of being rewarded for mixing your opponent or turning their mix against them? my skill at the game is irrelevant if i can accurately analyze and pick apart the mechanics of the game, and i have just laid out how afterimage strike scenarios play out currently and how they will play out post-patch.

super counter this, super counter that, they shouldve done that 1 second cooldown like the google docs suggested, that's true, but at least you can super counter or z-counter back, and they made z-counters harder to do if it keeps going ad infinitum now. you find easy matchups engaging because they're easy and require little thought put into putting together a gameplan. that is not the definition of engagement that most people use when discussing game mechanics.

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

Originally posted by Joker:

Originally posted by Space Daddy:

and somehow getting one perception and turning it off is? Im sorry but I think you just.. were not very good at the game. Its ok, now you dont have to try so hard they made it easier for you.

perception turning the buff off isnt really that engaging either because you just press 1 button and that's it, 2 skill counts down the drain. but at least this way, there's actual mix involved, my opponent can't just do a rush chain on me (unless its backshots). my opponent now has to actually think when they're in front of me instead of just being safe from anything i do that's not ki blasts. and if the game bugs out and the opponent turns around when they're receiving backshots, the afterimage strike victim still gets rewarded for outplaying the afterimage strike user now.

it's cheap counter-play, but it's much better than me keeping my distance, turtling, and spamming ki blasts for 15 seconds, don't you think? would you rather just spam ki blasts for 15 seconds instead of being rewarded for mixing your opponent or turning their mix against them? my skill at the game is irrelevant if i can accurately analyze and pick apart the mechanics of the game, and i have just laid out how afterimage strike scenarios play out currently and how they will play out post-patch.

idk man i felt like ki spam, super countering and grabs were already pretty engaging because a proper side step was required to set it up. I feel like turtling up was engaging because first you had to know AIS was in play, an observant player always saw the 3 counts drop and knew it was time to turtle and counter play the AIS.

We already had several options to counter, the 10 second change is the best part of the change, it doesnt need to be nerfed into oblivion honestly. It just lasted too damn long and the fact it was easily done again because they usually had 3 by the time it was over. But changing it to 10 AND giving it a turn off via perception? thats a bit much when they think a 4 frame super counter is just fine and dandy.


also again that was part of my point, z counters being easier to do will just add incentive to super counter wars even more, since the answer to z counters was to super counter the z counter and win via higher ki.

[AkimboWasabiMenthol]

im almost positive all the z rank streamers who didnt cheese to the top had been complaining about super counters since like, day 4 too.

[Joker]

Originally posted by Space Daddy:

Originally posted by Joker:

perception turning the buff off isnt really that engaging either because you just press 1 button and that's it, 2 skill counts down the drain. but at least this way, there's actual mix involved, my opponent can't just do a rush chain on me (unless its backshots). my opponent now has to actually think when they're in front of me instead of just being safe from anything i do that's not ki blasts. and if the game bugs out and the opponent turns around when they're receiving backshots, the afterimage strike victim still gets rewarded for outplaying the afterimage strike user now.

it's cheap counter-play, but it's much better than me keeping my distance, turtling, and spamming ki blasts for 15 seconds, don't you think? would you rather just spam ki blasts for 15 seconds instead of being rewarded for mixing your opponent or turning their mix against them? my skill at the game is irrelevant if i can accurately analyze and pick apart the mechanics of the game, and i have just laid out how afterimage strike scenarios play out currently and how they will play out post-patch.

idk man i felt like ki spam, super countering and grabs were already pretty engaging because a proper side step was required to set it up. I feel like turtling up was engaging because first you had to know AIS was in play, an observant player always saw the 3 counts drop and knew it was time to turtle and counter play the AIS. We already had several options to counter, the 10 second change is the best part of the change, it doesnt need to be nerfed into oblivion honestly. It just lasted too damn long and the fact it was easily done again because they usually had 3 by the time it was over. But changing it to 10 AND giving it a turn off via perception? thats a bit much when they think a 4 frame super counter is just fine and dandy

pressing the same button over and over is not engaging, it's braindead and requires no skill of any kind.

super counter requires some skill, but if your opponent counters that, you're still at a disadvantage and are back to super countering or ki blast spamming. that means you're repeating the same game plan over and over just waiting for the timer to run out. this is not engaging.

grabs usually arent an option as your opponent has no reason to try to bait out anything as they just vanish everything automatically. though grabbing may be the only current fun and somewhat engaging counter-play due to the fact that it depends on mix.

turtling is never engaging in any fighting game because youre just backing away from the fight. turtling may be fun and a preferred playstyle, but it's not engaging when it's the correct counter-play to a 15 second buff. literally just running away for 15 seconds instead of actually outplaying your opponent to beat their buff. defending isn't the same as it requires skill and is engaging exactly because you're doing more than running way.

engaging and fun are not the same, nor are they synonymous. you can find this counter-play fun, but it doesn't change the fact that at least most of the playerbase find these counter-play options to be not engaging. and usually, when something isn't engaging, it's not fun. at least if you ask most of the people on this forum.

if you ask me, AIS hasn't been nerfed into oblivion. it's just been given a more proper counter-play, and it revolves around the opponent now having to actually think about what they're doing if they're not doing backshots on you. yes, perception to deactivate is kinda cheap and also braindead, but at least now you have a reason to engage hands with the AIS user. now the opponent has to actually THINK and bait out perception. i agree that it's not perfect, and the way this counter-play has been achieved has been at the expense of the AIS user. but perhaps that's actually the proper way to balance the ability. i dont know if it's in the other BT game, or how it works in them if it is. i dont remember what the feedback google docs suggests either. but you're damn right that im glad they nerfed the ♥♥♥♥ out of it

[Joker]

and yes super counter should probably be changed too. z-counter will be harder to do post-patch, not easier, as it will cost more ki and have a shorter input window the longer it goes on.

[kenshireando]

why most people it's obsessed with ki sickness??? If they implemented it like in BT3 wouldn't fix anything, because there are easy ways to bypass it.
There is no way that they change how the super counter works, because it already take more skill to execute it and with the ♥♥♥♥♥ online if they shortened the window to perform it it can become impossible to do it in some matchs